Fairburn would swap Allen for Mahomes. Would you?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, Prospector said:

I was gonna say Knox for Kittle... but Kelce works also

 

Yeah, I later thought about it and you could also say Kittle or Waller.  And they are both younger than Kelce.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

I mean if the question isn’t viewed through the lens of “who is the better QB” then sure, Ryan Fitzpatrick has an argument in this debate lol.

This is actually the best answer. The difference between Josh, Tre and Diggs and the respective best players at those positions is approaching zero. Would be terrible positions to “upgrade”.

Has Patrick Mahomes reached his ceiling? 

Does he really?  Would anyone trade Josh Allen for Fitz?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?  
 

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

I really don’t believe that is a valid conclusion at this point.  Josh still hasn’t reached his ceiling; has Mahomes?

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion.  Ask who is the better QB, allen or Mahomes, outside of a Bills message board and I feel the answer would be definitive at this point in the more careers.  
 

I don’t think either of them have reached their ceilings tbh.  Allen may eventually be the better qb.....but I don’t see how anyone can say that Josh is better than Mahomes after what each qb has done so far

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Does he really?  Would anyone trade Josh Allen for Fitz?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?  
 

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion.  Ask who is the better QB, allen or Mahomes, outside of a Bills message board and I feel the answer would be definitive at this point in the more careers.  
 

I don’t think either of them have reached their ceilings tbh.  Allen may eventually be the better qb.....but I don’t see how anyone can say that Josh is better than Mahomes after what each qb has done so far

Mrs. Fitzpatrick 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

That's a weird answer to the question he was asked. I'd rather trade Jacob Hollister for Travis Kelce than Allen for Mahomes. Or Aaron Donald for Vernon Butler. He was given a question with limitless potential and chose the most boring answer.

 

To be fair to Fairburn, there was a 2nd half to this response that I didn't post... here it was:

 

If we take quarterback out of the question, I’d trade Dawson Knox for either George Kittle or Travis Kelce. Both tight ends would be huge upgrades. Kittle would be the better long-term play, but Kelce may be the more dominant player in the short term. Imagine the Bills’ offense with one of those players running alongside Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis? That wouldn’t be fun for defensive coordinators.

[stosh64]

Not surprised by the list of those that would rather have Mahomes than Allen.

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm a Josh guy and here's why

 

Mahomes has had the best offensive supporting cast in football since he took his first snap.  Great offensive coach, great O-line, great WR / TE corps, and a legit running game.  In the Super Bowl a couple of months ago Mahomes had to play behind a bad O-Line for the first time in his career and he looked pedestrian at best.  It was really the first time in Mahomes career that he was asked to overcome a deficiency on the Chiefs offense and he couldn't do it.  

 

Contrast that with Josh who has been asked to win year one with no WRs, year two with an average at best O-line, and last year with no running game.  In all those situations Josh put the team on his back, overcame the shortcomings of the offense around him, and kept finding ways to win games on his own.  Even as a rookie Josh willed that horrible offense to victories.

 

It's my opinion that Josh has done more with less.  I think Mahomes is the perfect QB to run a high octane offense like the Chiefs have fielded.  Josh doesn't need a high octane offense to win, I think Josh would have won 8 games with the Jets' offense last year.  That's the difference.  Mahomes plays fantastic football inside a fantastic offense.  I think Josh can play fantastic football with anyone.

 

 

[Mat68]

Allen.  Mahomes doesnt survive 2018.  Give me Allen over the next 10.  If they swap teams last year does Mahomes beat Kc with Allen?  I dont think so.  Allen is OUR guy.  Went from project and reach to a top 5 qb.  As a fan I dont see how you swap now.

[Rocky Landing]

55 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t think that either 25 year old has hit their ceiling.

 

I don’t know who is closer to their ceiling. Maybe Patrick Mahomes’ ceiling is the best QB ever of all time. Wins MVP 10 times. Breaks every record. In that case, he hasn’t come close to it.

 

This is why ceiling is a terrible argument. If Josh isn’t as good as Mahomes right now, you can just say he “hasn’t hit his ceiling yet.” Well what’s his ceiling? What if his ceiling is current Pat Mahomes? What if Pat Mahomes’ ceiling is way higher than Josh Allen’s ceiling? Is the only argument that Josh has a higher ceiling or hasn’t hit his ceiling yet because he wasn’t great his first two season and Mahomes was?

This is pure semantics. Don't call it a ceiling. It's just a reference point. The actual debate in this context is: Which QB is going to be better several years down the road, and I think that is a rational question. It's not like we're comparing Mahomes to Darnold, or something. There's good reason to be optimistic on Allen's future.

 

The point I'm making as it pertains to this thread is that I think given both QBs potential, we are better off continuing to build off the culture, and team that includes Josh Allen, and that trading him for Mahomes would undermine that culture. In other words, in the short term, trading for Mahomes would damage the Bills as a team. And, in the long term, or several years down the road, Josh Allen may very well be the better QB. Ceiling is just another way of referring to potential.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

To be fair to Fairburn, there was a 2nd half to this response that I didn't post... here it was:

 

If we take quarterback out of the question, I’d trade Dawson Knox for either George Kittle or Travis Kelce. Both tight ends would be huge upgrades. Kittle would be the better long-term play, but Kelce may be the more dominant player in the short term. Imagine the Bills’ offense with one of those players running alongside Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis? That wouldn’t be fun for defensive coordinators.

 

That should have been his only answer.  Mahomes had just 83 more total yards, 5 fewer total TDs and 6 fewer turnovers (not counting the Rams non-INT and the Moss fumble that was charged to Josh) than Josh in about a half game less of football, while Josh had a better completion percentage. 

 

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

This is pure semantics. Don't call it a ceiling. It's just a reference point. The actual debate in this context is: Which QB is going to be better several years down the road, and I think that is a rational question. It's not like we're comparing Mahomes to Darnold, or something. There's good reason to be optimistic on Allen's future.

 

The point I'm making as it pertains to this thread is that I think given both QBs potential, we are better off continuing to build off the culture, and team that includes Josh Allen, and that trading him for Mahomes would undermine that culture. In other words, in the short term, trading for Mahomes would damage the Bills as a team. And, in the long term, or several years down the road, Josh Allen may very well be the better QB. Ceiling is just another way of referring to potential.

Correct. And I would predict that the guy who has been consistently better will continue to consistently better. Versus the guy who hasn’t been better, let alone consistently better.

[Protocal69]

I think both QBs are great and I'm definitely not wishing injury on anyone but I watched a lot of chiefs games and I'm telling you that Mahomes leans ALOT on Travis Kelce. I mean to the point if Kelce were to miss playing time Mahomes play would suffer BIGTIME. 

 

I feel Kelce is more important to the chiefs offense than Tyreek Hill. Kelce either lead or tied as the team leader in targets in 11 out 15 regular season games in 2020.

 

Hill and Kelce are the PERFECT complement for Mahomes to play off of. I feel like it would be easier to replace Hill than Kelce.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Protocal69

[Don Otreply]

Ya can’t turn your back on the guy that brought the Buffalo Bills back from the dead,  we have adopted Josh’s Allen as our guy, just as much as he adopted Buffalo and us fans as his team, I guess I ‘m old fashioned in this case, but I see Allen as the perfect QB for Bills Nation. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Don Otreply

[GoBills808]

Voting yes on this is the corniest ***** I’ve ever seen lmfao

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Voting yes on this is the corniest ***** I’ve ever seen lmfao

You don’t know what corny means.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You don’t know what corny means.

It’s ok looks like you got it covered👍👍

[SinceThe70s]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

As far as benefiting the team, why trade a top 5 QB for another top 5 QB even if he is better?

 

Why not trade, say, Dawson Knox for Travis Kelce, or Mario Addison for Khalil Mack or TJ Watt?

 

You have a chance to majorly upgrade the team. Allen is one of the strengths of the team, so take a weakness and make it a strength by focusing on another position.

 

Agreed. Fairburn took the lazy way out of an interesting question. The Mahomes/Allen debate is fun, but unless you think Allen maxed out this year it's a poor choice for a positional swap out IMO.

[Doc Brown]

I voted yes based off the poll question but wouldn't do it based off the actual question Fairburn answered.  Give me a 22 year old Chase Young for Mario Addison.  If Rousseau (or Basham) turns into a stud we'd have a fierce pass rush for the next decade.

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It’s ok looks like you got it covered👍👍

Good one 🙄

 

I voted no.

 

Josh all day. 

[Freddie's Dead]

You forgot the ***** NO!!! option.  Next question.

[Bangarang]

If we get to swap any starter then I probably wouldn’t start with QB. 
 

I’d swap Aaron Donald with Star before thinking about Allen.