Rocky Landing Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: Aw man some of you get so emotional. I would counter that with: Some people don't place a high enough value on culture. 1
HappyDays Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 That's a weird answer to the question he was asked. I'd rather trade Jacob Hollister for Travis Kelce than Allen for Mahomes. Or Aaron Donald for Vernon Butler. He was given a question with limitless potential and chose the most boring answer. 3
FireChans Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, NewEra said: The question isn’t “who has achieved more” or “who is the better qb”. So yes, there is a debate. Who would YOU rather have..... I’d rather keep my favorite player as opposed to a player I’ve already learned to dislike. There is no correct answer. It’s an opinion. It’s not “who would give you their better chance to win a super bowl” or “who is the better qb”. It’s who would you rather have. You can’t be right or wrong. I mean if the question isn’t viewed through the lens of “who is the better QB” then sure, Ryan Fitzpatrick has an argument in this debate lol. 5 minutes ago, MJS said: As far as benefiting the team, why trade a top 5 QB for another top 5 QB even if he is better? Why not trade, say, Dawson Knox for Travis Kelce, or Mario Addison for Khalil Mack or TJ Watt? You have a chance to majorly upgrade the team. Allen is one of the strengths of the team, so take a weakness and make it a strength by focusing on another position. This is actually the best answer. The difference between Josh, Tre and Diggs and the respective best players at those positions is approaching zero. Would be terrible positions to “upgrade”. 12 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: If Mahomes were a country mile better than Allen, and Allen had reached his ceiling, then sure. But, he isn't, and he hasn't. And, swapping the two, at this point in The Process would be utterly contrary, and damaging to the culture McD, and Beane have created. They're all in on Allen, Allen is all in on the team, and the team is all in on him. Has Patrick Mahomes reached his ceiling? 1 1
transplantbillsfan Posted May 23, 2021 Author Posted May 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, FireChans said: None of which Allen has done. Mahomes is off to arguably the best start in NFL QB history. Allen is not. I get the intangibles thing, but Mahomes certainly has his fair share of intangibles and making jaw dropping plays out of nothing to keep his team cruising. Allen needs to win a SB and an MVP before this is a real debate. Do you believe Mahomes would have found similar success if he were drafted by Buffalo in 2017 at #10 with Buffalo's coaching staff, talent, and the likelihood that he would have had to start at some point during his first season considering McDermott decided to start Nathan Peterman at one point? Mahomes has more accomplishments and accolades at this point. I view that as a tangential argument to the ceilings of either player. 2
Doc Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 Mahomes has had a better supporting cast, from players to coaches, than Josh. It makes a difference. 1
FireChans Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Do you believe Mahomes would have found similar success if he were drafted by Buffalo in 2017 at #10 with Buffalo's coaching staff, talent, and the likelihood that he would have had to start at some point during his first season considering McDermott decided to start Nathan Peterman at one point? Mahomes has more accomplishments and accolades at this point. I view that as a tangential argument to the ceilings of either player. I think Mahomes would have had more success than Allen as a rookie. Tyrod and Natey took the 17 Bills to the playoffs. The next year, with a similar roster, they went 6-10. Do I think Mahomes could have beaten that? Yes. 1
Gugny Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, FireChans said: Tyrod and Natey took the 17 Bills to the playoffs. The next year, with a similar roster, they went 6-10. Do I think Mahomes could have beaten that? Yes. They most certainly did not. 2 1
Doc Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, FireChans said: I think Mahomes would have had more success than Allen as a rookie. Tyrod and Natey took the 17 Bills to the playoffs. The next year, with a similar roster, they went 6-10. Do I think Mahomes could have beaten that? Yes. Yeah, I could see 7-9...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 23, 2021 Author Posted May 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, FireChans said: I think Mahomes would have had more success than Allen as a rookie. Tyrod and Natey took the 17 Bills to the playoffs. The next year, with a similar roster, they went 6-10. Do I think Mahomes could have beaten that? Yes. I think you seriously underestimate the benefit of a redshirt year for Mahomes behind Alex Smith under the tutelage of Andy Reid and the talent already surrounding him in his first year with Hill and Kelce already rolling and a pretty stellar offensive line compared with what Buffalo had. Josh Allen had Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Robert Foster and Charles Clay and an offensive line full of general junk other than a rookie Dion Dawkins. 2 1 2
Rocky Landing Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, FireChans said: Has Patrick Mahomes reached his ceiling? I suspect that Mahomes is closer to his ceiling than Allen is to his. Statistically, Mahomes has been remarkably consistent over his four year career. Allen's trajectory has obviously been quite a bit steeper, and it would be surprising if he was done improving.
eball Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 42 minutes ago, NewEra said: Mahomes is the better QB 17 has my heart. I’ll take 17 I really don’t believe that is a valid conclusion at this point. Josh still hasn’t reached his ceiling; has Mahomes?
Doc Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 How about another poll, this time asking "would you trade Josh's players and coaches for Mahomes'?"
Royale with Cheese Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, FireChans said: No QB has won 2 MVPs without winning one. That wasn’t the point and I was also being sarcastic.
Rockinon Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 No way. No chance would I make that trade. Coaches either. I still want to see how this plays out. 2
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 35 minutes ago, FireChans said: Aw man some of you get so emotional. seems you have a hard time knowing the difference from emotional and just pointing out you bowing on your knees for mahomes and those who, like myself would rather have JA as our QB. so far, you have shown in this thread you would choose mahomes over JA or at least it looks that way. emotional. 🤣 1
ALLEN1QB Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 Mahomes is a flash in the pan will not even be in the league in 3 years mark my words 1 1 3
Kwai San Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Yes you can be a multiple time league MVP and, more importantly, multiple time Super Bowl winner. Like TB12?
FireChans Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Gugny said: They most certainly did not. Well maybe I can get the money back that I spent to sweat in Jacksonville for four hours. 16 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I think you seriously underestimate the benefit of a redshirt year for Mahomes behind Alex Smith under the tutelage of Andy Reid and the talent already surrounding him in his first year with Hill and Kelce already rolling and a pretty stellar offensive line compared with what Buffalo had. Josh Allen had Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Robert Foster and Charles Clay and an offensive line full of general junk other than a rookie Dion Dawkins. I mean, Tyrod and NP took KB, Zay Day, Clay and Holmes to the postseason the year before. No one is arguing that Allen has as good as a situation as Mahomes did. Talk about tangential. 18 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: I suspect that Mahomes is closer to his ceiling than Allen is to his. Statistically, Mahomes has been remarkably consistent over his four year career. Allen's trajectory has obviously been quite a bit steeper, and it would be surprising if he was done improving. Mahomes gets a knock on his ceiling because he has been great out of the box and has been consistently great. Hard for folks to crow about your “ceiling” when you’ve already done things that 99% of QB’s won’t come close to achieving. 1
transient Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 I’m going to answer this on the basis of Mahomes’ supposed response to the question of whether the “throw off” between him and Allen would ever take place, that it’s a lose-lose for him because “if I win I was expected to win, and if I lose then I’ve lost”. If that is in fact his mindset, give me the dude in whom the idea that he might lose wouldn’t even cross his mind, even if he might… Allen is so much more than just his talent to the Bills, he has become their heart and soul. They’ve forged their identity on his infectious enthusiasm and his never-say-die competitiveness. 1
Kwai San Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said: Mahomes is a flash in the pan will not even be in the league in 3 years mark my words WOW!!! Anywhere we can place a bet on that??? I am pretty sure a bunch of people would like to get in on that.......I get the hate but DANG! 1
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