Bills sign DT Treyvon Hester

[BigAl2526]

13 hours ago, Georgie said:

They have several guys to line up at the 1: Phillips,Bryant,Butler, and another new guy,Vandecose(?)

Phillips is the closest thing Buffalo has to a rotational player who can spell Lotulelei at 1 tech.  Butler can take reps there, but he's a natural 3 tech.  Other guys can take reps there, but all of them are undersized, including Hestor.  It is obvious that good 1 tech defensive tackles are much tougher to find than 3 techs.

[CorkScrewHill]

I believe  they are bringing him on to replace Andre Roberts as a kick returner .. can't go wrong with a Hester returning kicks. Who needs a wedge when you are over 300 lbs.

[billsfan89]

15 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

Phillips is the closest thing Buffalo has to a rotational player who can spell Lotulelei at 1 tech.  Butler can take reps there, but he's a natural 3 tech.  Other guys can take reps there, but all of them are undersized, including Hestor.  It is obvious that good 1 tech defensive tackles are much tougher to find than 3 techs.

I have to think they will bring in a one tech before camp starts just to eat some snaps but I am concerned about the one tech as Star coming off a season off and no one else really on the roster with any track record at one tech is making me concerned it will be an issue. Not a huge glaring concern but a concern.

[njbuff]

Can we just clone a 27 year old Ted Washington and get this over with? 😁

[Beast]

In a league where passing and athletic QB's rule the roost, it is no surprise to me that fast, athletic d-lineman, no matter the position, are at a premium. At least as far as the Bills are concerned and that makes sense to me.

 

The league is cyclic. Right now stopping the pass and stopping the athletic QB's is the way to go.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Beast

[BADOLBILZ]

21 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

  It is obvious that good 1 tech defensive tackles are much tougher to find than 3 techs.

 

I think you are mistaking the lack of demand with the lack of potential supply.

 

Teams don't want to put non-athletes on the field in a passing league.........the demand for dedicated 0's and 1's is low.

 

There is no guarantee that there will be even 1 job on every team for a traffic cone DT now..........and it certainly isn't the way to get paid.

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:41 AM, Tuel Time said:

 

I bet he hasn't even spoken with Wade and Duke Williams today. Not even a quick text message to say good morning.

 

This screen name sure is a blast from the past. 

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

This screen name sure is a blast from the past. 

It's amazing to think back on what it was like.   I mean, how hopeless were we?   I remember watching Tuel and wondering if there was a way to win with him.  

[Mat68]

On 5/20/2021 at 4:59 PM, Shaw66 said:

Well, yeah, that's the way you and I have always understood the basics of defense against the run.   But I watched the Bills playing last season without a combination of guys who could offer that kind of protection to Edmunds, and I wondered at times whether McDermott has a different philosophy altogether.  And then I listen to Beane telling us that both Rousseau and Basham can play tackle, and I wonder again.

 

I wonder whether McDermott's view is that, first and foremost, he's going to play team defense that stops the big play.  That would mind that he doesn't mind giving up modest yards some of the time, if the trade-off is that he can shut down everything deep.  We know his philosophy is to get pass rush consistently out of his front four, and he sacrifices one quarter of his pass rush when he's playing true one-tech (unless he has essentially a Hall of Fame player at the position.  I wonder whether he isn't thinking that on a lot of downs he'd rather have have four guys, all of whom are regular threats to penetrate, guys who not only can get after the passer but also can come down the line of scrimmage to take down backs going the other way.   The videos show Basham and Rousseau making plays like that.  

 

I don't know any of this for sure.  It's all pure speculation, but I find it curious, as do many posters here, that Beane has done nothing significant to get anyone into camp beyond Star and Harry.  It's particularly curious given that Star is a question mark until he shows up and shows that he isn't and that Harry, although he had his moments last season, hasn't shown he's an answer.  It all makes me think that McDermott and Frazier are going in a different direction than traditional football theory would suggest.   That is, it may be that McDermott thinks that he knows some things that we don't.  

I agree with that.   First downs and obvious run situations.   A situational player.  

 

But that still suggests that McDermott and Frazier are willing to sacrifice the bulk that a traditional one-tech guy would have, to take the risk that on second and third down teams will attack the relatively small and weak defensive front, and to gamble that quickness and scheming can make up for the fact that they don't have personnel on the field that can dominate the center of the line physically.  

2 down run stuffers are becoming 2 down linebakers.  Its been proven running on first down and second down is the least efficent way to play offense.  I think Mcdermott welcomes it.  Almost dares you to do it.  Run the ball and create 0 offensive rythem.  When you need a pass you wont be able to do it.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's amazing to think back on what it was like.   I mean, how hopeless were we?   I remember watching Tuel and wondering if there was a way to win with him.  

 

This is exactly why I take nothing for granted. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

2 down run stuffers are becoming 2 down linebakers.  Its been proven running on first down and second down is the least efficent way to play offense.  I think Mcdermott welcomes it.  Almost dares you to do it.  Run the ball and create 0 offensive rythem.  When you need a pass you wont be able to do it.

That's an interesting take. Thanks. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

16 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's amazing to think back on what it was like.   I mean, how hopeless were we?   I remember watching Tuel and wondering if there was a way to win with him.  

 

Yep if you squint real hard and forget most of what you know about football you could imagine a scenario where Jeff takes us to like 6-10. But instead he just crapped his pants.

[3rdand12]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:31 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Considering every DE that has ever been been acquired by McBeane also excels at blitzing from DT, I’m thinking we will be surprised at how many DTs actually make the 53. Wouldn’t be shocked if it’s just Oliver, Harry, and Star with Zimmer and 1 other on the PS.

very good point about the front four design from McBeanes.
Its a smart design when you have the players to run it.

[3rdand12]

On 5/20/2021 at 4:59 PM, Shaw66 said:

Well, yeah, that's the way you and I have always understood the basics of defense against the run.   But I watched the Bills playing last season without a combination of guys who could offer that kind of protection to Edmunds, and I wondered at times whether McDermott has a different philosophy altogether.  And then I listen to Beane telling us that both Rousseau and Basham can play tackle, and I wonder again.

 

I wonder whether McDermott's view is that, first and foremost, he's going to play team defense that stops the big play.  That would mind that he doesn't mind giving up modest yards some of the time, if the trade-off is that he can shut down everything deep.  We know his philosophy is to get pass rush consistently out of his front four, and he sacrifices one quarter of his pass rush when he's playing true one-tech (unless he has essentially a Hall of Fame player at the position.  I wonder whether he isn't thinking that on a lot of downs he'd rather have have four guys, all of whom are regular threats to penetrate, guys who not only can get after the passer but also can come down the line of scrimmage to take down backs going the other way.   The videos show Basham and Rousseau making plays like that.  

 

I don't know any of this for sure.  It's all pure speculation, but I find it curious, as do many posters here, that Beane has done nothing significant to get anyone into camp beyond Star and Harry.  It's particularly curious given that Star is a question mark until he shows up and shows that he isn't and that Harry, although he had his moments last season, hasn't shown he's an answer.  It all makes me think that McDermott and Frazier are going in a different direction than traditional football theory would suggest.   That is, it may be that McDermott thinks that he knows some things that we don't.  

I agree with that.   First downs and obvious run situations.   A situational player.  

 

But that still suggests that McDermott and Frazier are willing to sacrifice the bulk that a traditional one-tech guy would have, to take the risk that on second and third down teams will attack the relatively small and weak defensive front, and to gamble that quickness and scheming can make up for the fact that they don't have personnel on the field that can dominate the center of the line physically.  

Just a really good post from you , right here.
 worth thinking over.
The thing for some of us that stood out from last year were the running lanes that appeared too easy to get to the second and third level backs.
Perhaps more play calling weakness than execution or vice versa.
But none of us like being run on for 6 ,7 yards on 1st and or 2nd down (no stats, my perspective )
If they can outsmart against opponents run game with 4 penetrating / sideline to sideline hustlers ? Good stuff !
 But we need better MLB play and many call that "we need a nasty ole 1 tech who takes up two.
 

thanks for another good note or two from you  66

On 5/21/2021 at 7:15 PM, njbuff said:

Can we just clone a 27 year old Ted Washington and get this over with? 😁

seriously.

 and who was that other big ugly ?
Pat somebody'
 

I want TWO 1 techs on run downs  !!

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Just a really good post from you , right here.
 worth thinking over.
The thing for some of us that stood out from last year were the running lanes that appeared too easy to get to the second and third level backs.
Perhaps more play calling weakness than execution or vice versa.
But none of us like being run on for 6 ,7 yards on 1st and or 2nd down (no stats, my perspective )
If they can outsmart against opponents run game with 4 penetrating / sideline to sideline hustlers ? Good stuff !
 But we need better MLB play and many call that "we need a nasty ole 1 tech who takes up two.
 

thanks for another good note or two from you  66

 

Thanks.  And you raise the right objection to what I said, which is that the undersized, quick approach is going to give up those meaty first and second down runs sometimes.   And yes, better linebacker play might be part of the solution.   But I think Mat68 had the answer to that question, which is that McDermott seems to have decided that he can live with that weakness.

 

Quote

2 down run stuffers are becoming 2 down linebakers.  Its been proven running on first down and second down is the least efficent way to play offense.  I think Mcdermott welcomes it.  Almost dares you to do it.  Run the ball and create 0 offensive rhythm.  When you need a pass you wont be able to do it.

 

[Mat68]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.  And you raise the right objection to what I said, which is that the undersized, quick approach is going to give up those meaty first and second down runs sometimes.   And yes, better linebacker play might be part of the solution.   But I think Mat68 had the answer to that question, which is that McDermott seems to have decided that he can live with that weakness.

 

 

I think Mcdermott feels better about the defense vs KC following the game in Buf vs the AFCC.  Now he doesnt want to get knocked around, and he wants to stop it "when" he wants to.  Overall, Buffalo plays the averages.  I listen to Warren Sharp when he talks about Buffalo.  He is pretty deep in the analyatics of offense.  I think its no suprise Buffalo leads the league in passing on 1st down and is near the bottom of the league stopping the run on first down. 

[just1hugheser]

I have really enjoyed this thread, there has been a ton of talk about the DLine and Star's opt out/importance of a 1tech to keep our LB's(specifically Edmunds) clean. 

 

Also talk of if the staff is even worried about a 1tech to demand doubles and occupy blockers and in general be a run stuffer because its a passing league and we don't care if teams run the ball as long as we arent giving up big plays in the passing game.

 

And/or our offense is now good enough and consistent enough where we also don't really care if teams waste their offensive reps on running plays because that is essentially futile when needing to score enough points to beat our offense, of course this is a problem in the playoffs because of stout defenses and even if not a stout defense they can at least rush the passer(playoff teams i mean) putting the pressure back on our defense to stop the run and give our offense more opportunities/time(see both KC games).  In those scenarios, (against rosters with more talent or more top end talent, and I think this also goes to the mindset of building a team where in the beginning you are trying to win with a 'lesser' roster and need a specific formula per team to stay competitive), we are basically asking our defense to not let up big plays and in the end either get a turnover or get that one stop to give the offense one last chance to pull ahead just like they tried in the first KC game where they were only one score away but both sides of the ball couldn't get it done in the end, but with a 'lesser' roster against the super bowl champs they were within one score in the 4th.

 

Also I agree with those people who point to H Philips play before his injury and needing this last year to fully recover both physically and mentally(really being able to trust his legs when he is full go takes time and reps, people sometimes underestimate this aspect of injuries) to either take the majority of the reps from Star or at least be his equal as a sub.  Getting Star and H.P. back and in form should really improve the overall play of our front 7.

 

I pretty much give credence to a combination of all these factors being important aspects to pay attention to.  For me the most important aspects of the DLine are setting the edge(depending on the defense of course my point being that our D often asks the DE to set an edge), attacking a gap to put pressure on guard/tackle or center/guard combos-i suppose thereby occupying blockers, and penetration which usually wins the play for the defense. 

 

With the additions of Rousseau and Basham we have added some nice tools and versatility Rousseau has the size length and power to set the edge in the run game and get after the passer, Basham can also set the edge in the run and on passing downs he can kick inside/or he can just straight up play inside full time and leave the edge to Hughes, Addison and Rousseau(doubtful) just pointing out the versatility and options these guys allow.

 

Another point out there, one that I tend to make because of the philosophy of how we build our team, how we draft, how we coach and that is player development.  I guess it kinda goes along with draft position and expectations as well, some guys are brought in and they can contribute immediately some are brought in and need time to develop their full potential(especially true of the freak athletes with little experience and production), hopefully all guys can contribute something right away like special teams, but I believe we are more willing to be patient with these types of players because of our coaches and of course the high end pay out that comes with freak athletes who have the lights go on(see Mike Vick for a year or two post dogs in philly).   This is not a one sided strategy though as they do not soley draft off the chart athletes, they also value experience and production.  

 

Someone said that the McDermott and the coaches are clearly in a position to know more whether they can rely upon Star, Phillips next year and about the progress of players like Edmunds, Oliver, AJ, Jackson and Ford, Knox, Motor, Moss, etc. and I trust them in this respect for a lot of reasons, not least of which is their development and trust in JA.  Can you imagine last year's offense getting better and then being combined with the top 5 defenses we had just a few years ago before JA and even in his first couple years our defense was markedly better than last.  Chalk it up to Corona weirdness that hurt prep, practice and development of younger players+ opts outs+ injuries+ tougher schedule+ teams needing to keep up with our O+ whatever I'm forgetting and next year looks very promising from a younger player breakout perspective.

 

Plus it will be nice to know and have a definitive answer on so many guy's development and possibilities for the future- AJ, Oliver, Edmunds, Phillips, Ford, Knox, Motor, etc.

[chongli]

2 hours ago, just1hugheser said:

I have really enjoyed this thread, there has been a ton of talk about the DLine and Star's opt out/importance of a 1tech to keep our LB's(specifically Edmunds) clean. 

 

Also talk of if the staff is even worried about a 1tech to demand doubles and occupy blockers and in general be a run stuffer because its a passing league and we don't care if teams run the ball as long as we arent giving up big plays in the passing game.

 

And/or our offense is now good enough and consistent enough where we also don't really care if teams waste their offensive reps on running plays because that is essentially futile when needing to score enough points to beat our offense, of course this is a problem in the playoffs because of stout defenses and even if not a stout defense they can at least rush the passer(playoff teams i mean) putting the pressure back on our defense to stop the run and give our offense more opportunities/time(see both KC games).  In those scenarios, (against rosters with more talent or more top end talent, and I think this also goes to the mindset of building a team where in the beginning you are trying to win with a 'lesser' roster and need a specific formula per team to stay competitive), we are basically asking our defense to not let up big plays and in the end either get a turnover or get that one stop to give the offense one last chance to pull ahead just like they tried in the first KC game where they were only one score away but both sides of the ball couldn't get it done in the end, but with a 'lesser' roster against the super bowl champs they were within one score in the 4th.

 

Also I agree with those people who point to H Philips play before his injury and needing this last year to fully recover both physically and mentally(really being able to trust his legs when he is full go takes time and reps, people sometimes underestimate this aspect of injuries) to either take the majority of the reps from Star or at least be his equal as a sub.  Getting Star and H.P. back and in form should really improve the overall play of our front 7.

 

I pretty much give credence to a combination of all these factors being important aspects to pay attention to.  For me the most important aspects of the DLine are setting the edge(depending on the defense of course my point being that our D often asks the DE to set an edge), attacking a gap to put pressure on guard/tackle or center/guard combos-i suppose thereby occupying blockers, and penetration which usually wins the play for the defense. 

 

With the additions of Rousseau and Basham we have added some nice tools and versatility Rousseau has the size length and power to set the edge in the run game and get after the passer, Basham can also set the edge in the run and on passing downs he can kick inside/or he can just straight up play inside full time and leave the edge to Hughes, Addison and Rousseau(doubtful) just pointing out the versatility and options these guys allow.

 

Another point out there, one that I tend to make because of the philosophy of how we build our team, how we draft, how we coach and that is player development.  I guess it kinda goes along with draft position and expectations as well, some guys are brought in and they can contribute immediately some are brought in and need time to develop their full potential(especially true of the freak athletes with little experience and production), hopefully all guys can contribute something right away like special teams, but I believe we are more willing to be patient with these types of players because of our coaches and of course the high end pay out that comes with freak athletes who have the lights go on(see Mike Vick for a year or two post dogs in philly).   This is not a one sided strategy though as they do not soley draft off the chart athletes, they also value experience and production.  

 

Someone said that the McDermott and the coaches are clearly in a position to know more whether they can rely upon Star, Phillips next year and about the progress of players like Edmunds, Oliver, AJ, Jackson and Ford, Knox, Motor, Moss, etc. and I trust them in this respect for a lot of reasons, not least of which is their development and trust in JA.  Can you imagine last year's offense getting better and then being combined with the top 5 defenses we had just a few years ago before JA and even in his first couple years our defense was markedly better than last.  Chalk it up to Corona weirdness that hurt prep, practice and development of younger players+ opts outs+ injuries+ tougher schedule+ teams needing to keep up with our O+ whatever I'm forgetting and next year looks very promising from a younger player breakout perspective.

 

Plus it will be nice to know and have a definitive answer on so many guy's development and possibilities for the future- AJ, Oliver, Edmunds, Phillips, Ford, Knox, Motor, etc.

 

Record for longest post ever, lol? 😁 Thanks for making a well thought-out post, especially from a new poster. Your effort is much appreciated.

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Record for longest post ever, lol? 😁 Thanks for making a well thought-out post, especially from a new poster. Your effort is much appreciated.

It's a nice post, but I'm not giving up the record that easily. 

[3rdand12]

12 hours ago, just1hugheser said:

I have really enjoyed this thread, there has been a ton of talk about the DLine and Star's opt out/importance of a 1tech to keep our LB's(specifically Edmunds) clean. 

 

Also talk of if the staff is even worried about a 1tech to demand doubles and occupy blockers and in general be a run stuffer because its a passing league and we don't care if teams run the ball as long as we arent giving up big plays in the passing game.

 

And/or our offense is now good enough and consistent enough where we also don't really care if teams waste their offensive reps on running plays because that is essentially futile when needing to score enough points to beat our offense, of course this is a problem in the playoffs because of stout defenses and even if not a stout defense they can at least rush the passer(playoff teams i mean) putting the pressure back on our defense to stop the run and give our offense more opportunities/time(see both KC games).  In those scenarios, (against rosters with more talent or more top end talent, and I think this also goes to the mindset of building a team where in the beginning you are trying to win with a 'lesser' roster and need a specific formula per team to stay competitive), we are basically asking our defense to not let up big plays and in the end either get a turnover or get that one stop to give the offense one last chance to pull ahead just like they tried in the first KC game where they were only one score away but both sides of the ball couldn't get it done in the end, but with a 'lesser' roster against the super bowl champs they were within one score in the 4th.

 

Also I agree with those people who point to H Philips play before his injury and needing this last year to fully recover both physically and mentally(really being able to trust his legs when he is full go takes time and reps, people sometimes underestimate this aspect of injuries) to either take the majority of the reps from Star or at least be his equal as a sub.  Getting Star and H.P. back and in form should really improve the overall play of our front 7.

 

I pretty much give credence to a combination of all these factors being important aspects to pay attention to.  For me the most important aspects of the DLine are setting the edge(depending on the defense of course my point being that our D often asks the DE to set an edge), attacking a gap to put pressure on guard/tackle or center/guard combos-i suppose thereby occupying blockers, and penetration which usually wins the play for the defense. 

 

With the additions of Rousseau and Basham we have added some nice tools and versatility Rousseau has the size length and power to set the edge in the run game and get after the passer, Basham can also set the edge in the run and on passing downs he can kick inside/or he can just straight up play inside full time and leave the edge to Hughes, Addison and Rousseau(doubtful) just pointing out the versatility and options these guys allow.

 

Another point out there, one that I tend to make because of the philosophy of how we build our team, how we draft, how we coach and that is player development.  I guess it kinda goes along with draft position and expectations as well, some guys are brought in and they can contribute immediately some are brought in and need time to develop their full potential(especially true of the freak athletes with little experience and production), hopefully all guys can contribute something right away like special teams, but I believe we are more willing to be patient with these types of players because of our coaches and of course the high end pay out that comes with freak athletes who have the lights go on(see Mike Vick for a year or two post dogs in philly).   This is not a one sided strategy though as they do not soley draft off the chart athletes, they also value experience and production.  

 

Someone said that the McDermott and the coaches are clearly in a position to know more whether they can rely upon Star, Phillips next year and about the progress of players like Edmunds, Oliver, AJ, Jackson and Ford, Knox, Motor, Moss, etc. and I trust them in this respect for a lot of reasons, not least of which is their development and trust in JA.  Can you imagine last year's offense getting better and then being combined with the top 5 defenses we had just a few years ago before JA and even in his first couple years our defense was markedly better than last.  Chalk it up to Corona weirdness that hurt prep, practice and development of younger players+ opts outs+ injuries+ tougher schedule+ teams needing to keep up with our O+ whatever I'm forgetting and next year looks very promising from a younger player breakout perspective.

 

Plus it will be nice to know and have a definitive answer on so many guy's development and possibilities for the future- AJ, Oliver, Edmunds, Phillips, Ford, Knox, Motor, etc.

I think I love you
 

Go Bills