New Episode of Bills Embedded 5/20

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

The trade up had to be for Rousseau after Jaelan Phillips and Kwity Paye were gone. They clearly targeted a DE and were so happy when the Saints took Payton Turner.

 

Revealed Preference (their actual draft pick) puts Rousseau over all other D linemen.

 

Agree with that. There was almost a disbelief when the Saints took Turner... "Payton Turner? Alright then." 

[Rochesterfan]

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I want to believe so and that all the pre draft talk about ETN was just a smokescreen, but I don’t think you can tell 100% from the clip that this is the case considering how it has been edited ...

 

It really seems with how they never looked at RBs anyplace else in the draft that ETN was a total smokescreen.  
 

I think it is even more telling that the team that drafted him only thinks he is a limited 3rd down back and still wasted a 1st round pick on him.  I think that got Buffalo a player they really wanted.

 

I am pretty sure DE and CB were the 2 positions they were looking at as CB went on a mini-run before the Bills pick and at the top of round 2 and the Bills started the DE run.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[Chandler#81]

13 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

Yeah it was pretty clear Rousseau was a backup target and they really wanted someone else who went earlier, Washington should be happy he got his guy though. Basham clearly elicited more excitement from McDermott. 

I agree completely. They/EVERYBODY knows picking at 30 leaves little to be desired. They tried to make a move up, but not at a great loss. Ironically, I hope we’re faced with this ‘nothin’ we can do -it’s our Lot for being so damn good’ dilemma for years to come!

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Rousseau was their target

No, he wasn’t. He was their ‘fall back’ pick. Think about it. He’s a converted WR with 1 -count ‘em, ONE 12 game season of experience. 

Though he May have been who they targeted IF no decent opportunity arose to trade up. 

 

I mean, what does it say that a kid with only 12 games experience in a new position and opted out last season is ‘their target’ after just 29 of 360-some players will be drafted?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

I agree completely. They/EVERYBODY knows picking at 30 leaves little to be desired. They tried to make a move up, but not at a great loss. Ironically, I hope we’re faced with this ‘nothin’ we can do -it’s our Lot for being so damn good’ dilemma for years to come!

No, he wasn’t. He was their ‘fall back’ pick. Think about it. He’s a converted WR with 1 -count ‘em, ONE 12 game season of experience. 

Though he May have been who they targeted IF no decent opportunity arose to trade up. 

 

I mean, what does it say that a kid with only 12 games experience in a new position and opted out last season is ‘their target’ after just 29 of 360-some players will be drafted?

That their options were limited.

[Buffalo03]

Bills staff talking to Bills players they drafted on the phone

 

Beane: "hey man, how you doing? You ready to become a Bill?

 

McDermott: "hey, we're excited to have you here. Hope you're ready to come to work"

 

Terry Pegula: "Do you like hot dogs?"

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Buffalo03

[jimmy10]

Loved the National Lampoons Clark Griswold reference. “This is crazy, this is crazy!”

 

I know these are total PR puff pieces but that was fun to watch. Rousseau seems like a genuinely sweet kid, and yet is so physically imposing. The Groot nickname fits him perfectly. 
 

Loved Boogie’s emotion when he got the call. 
 

Rooting hard for all these kids. 

[DrDawkinstein]

ETN was 100% absolutely the 1st round target they were trying to trade up for.

 

However, unlike past regimes, they did not fall too in love with a skills player and talk themselves into overpaying in a trade-up. They set their values and stuck to them, and were happy to stay put and go with their fallback option at #30.

 

The fact they didnt take any other RBs does not prove they weren't looking at a RB at all. It's more logical to assume they saw ETN as the obvious higher-tier upgrade over our current RBs, but did not see any of the other remaining RBs that way.

 

I'm happy with our picks. Love that we double-dipped at both DE and OT. Can't have too many of those guys. Can't wait to see how Basham does.

 

Really interesting to see that even the FO thought it "was crazy" (great reference) to pick DEs back-to-back like that. And the jokes about all the size, and taking the tallest guys on the board. Shows that it wasn't necessarily by design as some master plan, but just the way the boards worked out.

 

For a PR, fluff piece, this was still a decent behind-the-scenes look.

 

Go Bills!

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

ETN was 100% absolutely the 1st round target they were trying to trade up for.

 

However, unlike past regimes, they did not fall too in love with a skills player and talk themselves into overpaying in a trade-up. They set their values and stuck to them, and were happy to stay put and go with their fallback option at #30.

 

The fact they didnt take any other RBs does not prove they weren't looking at a RB at all. It's more logical to assume they saw ETN as the obvious higher-tier upgrade over our current RBs, but did not see any of the other remaining RBs that way.

 

I'm happy with our picks. Love that we double-dipped at both DE and OT. Can't have too many of those guys. Can't wait to see how Basham does.

 

Really interesting to see that even the FO thought it "was crazy" (great reference) to pick DEs back-to-back like that. And the jokes about all the size, and taking the tallest guys on the board. Shows that it wasn't necessarily by design as some master plan, but just the way the boards worked out.

 

For a PR, fluff piece, this was still a decent behind-the-scenes look.

 

Go Bills!

 

No way.  Beane isn't going to talk about any player they intend to draft.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

That their options were limited.

 

Maybe they plan to convert him back to WR or TE (just kidding).

Maybe says he got 15.5 sacks in those 12 games and the Bills see high potential. 

 

Reportedly our DL coach really liked him and was banging the table for him.  That actually kind of worries me because the last player where a position coach was known to be banging the table, Zay Jones, didn't work out so well.

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

ETN was 100% absolutely the 1st round target they were trying to trade up for.

 

Just curious, why do you say that? 

 

I thought they likely wanted Paye.

 

Quote

However, unlike past regimes, they did not fall too in love with a skills player and talk themselves into overpaying in a trade-up. They set their values and stuck to them, and were happy to stay put and go with their fallback option at #30.

 

Agree with this. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Gonzonzo said:

Nop. It was Addison who missed the tackle.

 

He could have just kept running and probably interfered with the pass but he tried to go for the "kill shot" and sack Murray.  Murray eluded him and had time to set and throw

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Just curious, why do you say that? 

 

I thought they likely wanted Paye.

 

Besides the reports from that Thursday night that Beane had been trying to get up ahead of the Jags (who drafted ETN)...

 

ETN with this RB class was the only one worth trading up for. After ETN (and I guess Harris) there was a steep drop off in RB talent.

 

Whereas the DE class was deep, but flat. Meaning, all of the guys taken in the first 2 rounds were about equally rated. No reason to try to spend extra capital to get a guy at #19, when you can get equal talent at #30 and #61. Especially a non-producer like Paye.

 

ETN is a special Offensive weapon and a huge upgrade over what we have at RB. They tried to make their move on a playmaker, but when the price was too high, they were happy to sit back at #30 and take the best DE who fell to them.

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He could have just kept running and probably interfered with the pass but he tried to go for the "kill shot" and sack Murray.  Murray eluded him and had time to set and throw

 

Absolutely.

 

Addison should have done what Hughes did to Wilson in the Seahawks game and just stayed in front of him to disrupt the play.

[Alphadawg7]

16 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I want to believe so and that all the pre draft talk about ETN was just a smokescreen, but I don’t think you can tell 100% from the clip that this is the case considering how it has been edited ...

It was Rousseau, they said so after the draft and it was clear in Embedded as well.  They said they think he will go between 20 and 32 and Beane even said that was the range they considered trading up within previously.  They also said they expected him to go earlier, and he the hardest part was being patient because the cost to trade up was too high.

 

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

!

No, he wasn’t. He was their ‘fall back’ pick. Think about it. He’s a converted WR with 1 -count ‘em, ONE 12 game season of experience. 

Though he May have been who they targeted IF no decent opportunity arose to trade up. 

 

I mean, what does it say that a kid with only 12 games experience in a new position and opted out last season is ‘their target’ after just 29 of 360-some players will be drafted?

 

Sorry, and no disrespect, but you’re wrong and that’s just your opinion of him, nothing you said is a reflection of how the Bills and their scouts felt about him.  It was 100% clear the Bills had a substantially better grade than your view of the pick and expected him to be gone before their pick.  
 

They also were not going to move up if the cost was too high.  Rousseau was their target, but they also had actual fall back picks they would look at if he didn’t make it to 32 that they liked which is why they were not going to pay a lot to move up.  

 

It’s honestly pretty surprising some people still are in disbelief that Rousseau was their actual target.  Even Rousseau said he felt pretty confident the Bills were going to draft him prior to the draft because of how strong if interest they showed in him, which was the most of any team, and what they told him in his interviews.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

It's always great when a player you were trying to trade up for just falls into your lap. Sometimes teams trade up out of paranoia and waste picks on a guy who would have been there anyway. I know the Bills tried to trade up for Ed Oliver but luckily didn't. 

Trading up for Zay Jones when JuJu Smith-Schuster, Alvin Kamara, Dalvin Cook, and Kenny Golladay would have been on the board with our original pick may have soured my opinion on trade ups.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Allen2Diggs

[Alphadawg7]

All I know is that after watching Embedded, I am even more hyped and excited for our draft class.  They really landed some guys with high ceilings and I’ve never been more confident in a staff to develop said talent.  

[Ya Digg?]

12 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

It's always great when a player you were trying to trade up for just falls into your lap. Sometimes teams trade up out of paranoia and waste picks on a guy who would have been there anyway. I know the Bills tried to trade up for Ed Oliver but luckily didn't. 

Trading up for Zay Jones when JuJu Smith-Schuster, Alvin Kamara, Dalvin Cook, and Kenny Golladay would have been on the board with our original pick may have soured my opinion on trade ups.

All of this right here is revisionist history. Zay had just set a college record for catches, all signs pointed to him being a good player...but you’re making it sound like you knew and the Bills should’ve known that all of those guys picked after him were all going to end up as good as they are. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be sour on trading up or anything like that, but you’re making it sound like it was so easy to just pick one of those other guys.I get your logic, just not the approach. Now if you were in these discussion boards banging your hands on the table at the time of that draft that’s a different story, I’m not sure that was happening though at the time 

[syhuang]

15 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

No, he wasn’t. He was their ‘fall back’ pick. Think about it. He’s a converted WR with 1 -count ‘em, ONE 12 game season of experience. 

Though he May have been who they targeted IF no decent opportunity arose to trade up. 

 

I mean, what does it say that a kid with only 12 games experience in a new position and opted out last season is ‘their target’ after just 29 of 360-some players will be drafted?

 

Can't really tell whether Rousseau was their trade-up target but the reason you listed is just him playing DE for one season. That reason alone doesn't mean Rousseau is a lesser prospect. Front office could still like him a lot after viewing his tapes and interviewing him that they attempt to trade up for him.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by syhuang

[Chandler#81]

51 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It was Rousseau, they said so after the draft and it was clear in Embedded as well.  They said they think he will go between 20 and 32 and Beane even said that was the range they considered trading up within previously.  They also said they expected him to go earlier, and he the hardest part was being patient because the cost to trade up was too high.

 

 

Sorry, and no disrespect, but you’re wrong and that’s just your opinion of him, nothing you said is a reflection of how the Bills and their scouts felt about him.  It was 100% clear the Bills had a substantially better grade than your view of the pick and expected him to be gone before their pick.  
 

They also were not going to move up if the cost was too high.  Rousseau was their target, but they also had actual fall back picks they would look at if he didn’t make it to 32 that they liked which is why they were not going to pay a lot to move up.  

 

It’s honestly pretty surprising some people still are in disbelief that Rousseau was their actual target.  Even Rousseau said he felt pretty confident the Bills were going to draft him prior to the draft because of how strong if interest they showed in him, which was the most of any team, and what they told him in his interviews.

How is what I said wrong when you agree with everything I said?😳

[K-9]

7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I agree completely. They/EVERYBODY knows picking at 30 leaves little to be desired. They tried to make a move up, but not at a great loss. Ironically, I hope we’re faced with this ‘nothin’ we can do -it’s our Lot for being so damn good’ dilemma for years to come!

No, he wasn’t. He was their ‘fall back’ pick. Think about it. He’s a converted WR with 1 -count ‘em, ONE 12 game season of experience. 

Though he May have been who they targeted IF no decent opportunity arose to trade up. 

 

I mean, what does it say that a kid with only 12 games experience in a new position and opted out last season is ‘their target’ after just 29 of 360-some players will be drafted?

I agree that he lacks experience as a college player, but to suggest he’s a converted WR is somewhat misleading. While he also played WR and safety in high school, he was a 4 star recruit as a DE and that’s what he was at the U from the moment he got there. Most heavily recruited high school players play on both sides of the ball in high school. They are too good athletically not to. 

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

How is what I said wrong when you agree with everything I said?😳

Sorry maybe I misread what you wrote, but from what I understood your comment to be was that you said he was a fall back pick and not their primary target.  
 

I’m saying he was their primary target all along, and everything points to that being fact.  When they were calling to trade up it was for him as they didn’t think he would last until their pick, and they even said this.  

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

All of this right here is revisionist history. Zay had just set a college record for catches, all signs pointed to him being a good player...but you’re making it sound like you knew and the Bills should’ve known that all of those guys picked after him were all going to end up as good as they are. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be sour on trading up or anything like that, but you’re making it sound like it was so easy to just pick one of those other guys.I get your logic, just not the approach. Now if you were in these discussion boards banging your hands on the table at the time of that draft that’s a different story, I’m not sure that was happening though at the time 

If we had picked Zay when our pick came up I wouldn't have been as bitter. When we traded up I was 90% sure Juju was the pick so I was pretty shocked at the time. It's the fact that we wasted draft capitol out of panic instead of waiting for the best available player. If we had Zay Jones head-and-shoulders above the other prospects on their board then Pegula clearly made the right call in firing everyone immediately after the draft.

 

This was coming off their disastrous 2016 draft where Shaq Lawson was somehow the bright spot, no other starters were drafted, and 3 players were traded away before their rookie contracts were over.

 

Having said that, it's incredibly refreshing to finally have a competent GM and staff that I trust to make good decisions and make wise gambles.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Allen2Diggs