1ManRaid Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 Even when he wins MVP, they'll have a hard time swallowing putting him top 5. Remember when he was putting up MVP numbers and I think getting offensive player of the week early in the season and they had him outside the top 10?
transplantbillsfan Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 Who cares? He's still too low. Yes, that top 6 as a whole is almost indisputable, but Allen at 6? Are they taking multiple years? Are they projecting moving forward? I don't think anyone can say it's "accounting for the talent on the team" because both KC and Tampa Bay are uber talented on offense... probably moreso than Buffalo. 1
TBBills Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Who cares? He's still too low. Yes, that top 6 as a whole is almost indisputable, but Allen at 6? Are they taking multiple years? Are they projecting moving forward? I don't think anyone can say it's "accounting for the talent on the team" because both KC and Tampa Bay are uber talented on offense... probably moreso than Buffalo. Gives him something to work for this year. You know it won't make him happy till he is #1 b.c that will probably mean the Bills won the Super Bowl.
Beerball Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) It just doesn’t matter. Edited May 19, 2021 by Beerball
TH3 Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said: I know .. we all hate PFF and I don't actually click on their site much, but I heard Cowherd or one of those guys discussing PFF's 2021 QB ranking ...Josh moved from near the bottom to start 2020 to .... number 6 going into 2021. When your haters compliment you .. you have arrived. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-ahead-of-the-2021-nfl-season Lamar was 8, and Baker was 10. If all QBs were free agents and a draft was organized...Josh would likely be the number 1 or 2 pick Edited May 19, 2021 by TH3 3
PrimeTime101 Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 If Josh Allen figures out presnap reads this year with his second big jump 2 seasons in a row I predict nothing less then mvp. For now its Mahomes and a role of the dice for the next 4-5 players
Doc Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Who cares? He's still too low. Yes, that top 6 as a whole is almost indisputable, but Allen at 6? Are they taking multiple years? Are they projecting moving forward? I don't think anyone can say it's "accounting for the talent on the team" because both KC and Tampa Bay are uber talented on offense... probably moreso than Buffalo. Definitely more talented.
Boxcar Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 17 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said: I know .. we all hate PFF and I don't actually click on their site much, but I heard Cowherd or one of those guys discussing PFF's 2021 QB ranking ...Josh moved from near the bottom to start 2020 to .... number 6 going into 2021. When your haters compliment you .. you have arrived. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-ahead-of-the-2021-nfl-season Lamar was 8, and Baker was 10. Damn, Justin Herbert got disrespected. Who on Earth takes Derek Carr or Kirk Cousins instead? 1
Billzfan37 Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 14 hours ago, WideNine said: Need we remind ourselves that they once rated Josh Allen dead last - 32nd in the league behind the struggling Josh Rosen who had just been sent packing to Miami. That list is rather humorous in hindsight. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-rankings-nfl-starting-quarterback-rankings-for-2019 2019 ranking were a joke, they had Drew Brees at #2 and Cam Newton at #16. What a crock of crap
Buftex Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 18 hours ago, Doc said: They still suck. He should be 3rd at least. I'd say "at least" 4th. Sure, I like him more than the rest, but hard to make arguments against Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers.
Patrick Duffy Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, TH3 said: If all QBs were free agents and a draft was organized...Josh would likely be the number 1 or 2 pick Absolutely, Only Patrick M. would likely be before Josh. And for me anyways, I'm not sure that I take P.M over Josh because I believe Josh will still improve even more and that will be SCARY for rest of the league. Edited May 19, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy
Jay_Fixit Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 19 hours ago, Gambit said: Should be top 3. Laughable that Watson is ahead of him. How is it laughable?
eball Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: If Josh Allen figures out presnap reads this year with his second big jump 2 seasons in a row I predict nothing less then mvp. For now its Mahomes and a role of the dice for the next 4-5 players I read Jim Kubiak’s analysis of Josh Allen every week last season and don’t recall a single example of Josh “not making a correct pre-snap read.” Now, if you’re truly a student of the game and QB play can explain what you’re talking about I’ll listen, but this sounds to me like somebody just making stuff up.
WideNine Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Billzfan37 said: 2019 ranking were a joke, they had Drew Brees at #2 and Cam Newton at #16. What a crock of crap I know right? This is the case and point that there are statistics and analytics that are always lensed subjectively... catchable pass or did receiver slightly adjust route and/or timing to make it so? Good receivers make sub par throws (that all QBs make in this league of off-platform throws on extended plays) look better. Not discounting Allen's needed growth areas in 2019 (touch and mechanics for consistency), but taking in what he did that year with the supporting cast he had, PFF's take was hardly objective. They have a penchant like any other football affectionados to go into a publication with bias in place and cherry-pick the stats and analysis that best support the narrative they prefer to put forward. I like their player data collection, but rather view how those numbers trend over time sprinkled with some honest slant of what my eyes are telling me. Many of us could look at the same failed QB play (results-wise) and see progression, regression, no change; Pre-snap reads, where his eyes go - is he going through his progressions, how he moved, avoided the rush, decisions on where to throw - is he looking off defenders or throwing it away, timing, throwing mechanics, etc... Those performance details are pretty subjective and are harder to capture if you are not looking for them to begin with.
Boxcar Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) Damn, Josh is just behind Carson Wentz in turnover worthy plays with 23, and just ahead of Patrick Mahomes with 23. Oh, not sure if you guys saw the receiver rankings, but Diggs was 8th, and Beasley in the 20s, which didn't really match the reasoning they gave (which said, essentially, that he was the best slot receiver in the NFL). Edited May 19, 2021 by Boxcar
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: If Josh Allen figures out presnap reads this year with his second big jump 2 seasons in a row I predict nothing less then mvp. For now its Mahomes and a role of the dice for the next 4-5 players Not sure why you’re criticizing his pre-snap reads. That seemed to be an area where he knew what he was doing and was making proper checks at the line depending on the defense.
Boxcar Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Not sure why you’re criticizing his pre-snap reads. That seemed to be an area where he knew what he was doing and was making proper checks at the line depending on the defense. As a glaring example of Josh's ability to read the defense pre snap, I present the Jake Kumerow bullet. He knew exactly where, when and to whom he was throwing the ball before he got it. He misleads the safeties by looking right until Kumerow is in position and then fires a bullet. Josh's reads are one of the best parts of his game and obviously something he works really hard at. Edited May 19, 2021 by Boxcar
Doc Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Buftex said: I'd say "at least" 4th. Sure, I like him more than the rest, but hard to make arguments against Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers. Brady's offense was stacked Even before the addition of Brown. 1
CorkScrewHill Posted May 19, 2021 Author Posted May 19, 2021 I think if we take a step back and consider it in the lens of … just next season … obviously if it were the next 15 years Brady and Rodgers would be much lower, then top 6 feels right. You may value his upside more, others may favor the consistency of a Wilson. Still not buying their stuff, but seems fair
DCOrange Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) Considering this is essentially based on the last three seasons, #6 feels pretty good for Allen. He was obviously elite last year, but the prior two years weigh his rating down enough to drop him to #6. The same reasoning explains Wilson being high despite the drop-off he had over the second half of the year last year. He was elite the first half of the year and elite the prior two years, so therefore, still a top 5 ranking. Watson was amazing last year and very good in prior seasons, so again, shouldn't be much of a surprise. 17 hours ago, Doc said: He needs to cut down on the fumbles when scrambling or getting sacked, I think we can all agree. As for the "turnover-worthy plays," I believe there was a video of them and the vast majority would have taken superhuman effort to turn them into INTs. That video was from Cian Fahey, who tries to do the same thing but is not in any way connected to PFF. It's possible that PFF considered many of those same plays to be turnover-worthy, but they haven't shown video evidence as far as I know. The best they've done as far as being transparent about it is this article that breaks down what is and isn't considered a turnover-worthy play. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-qb-grading-most-effective-tool-there-is With interception-worthy plays, they're essentially looking for throws that are late/poorly located and allow the DB to attempt to intercept it or plays where the QB just misreads it badly and throws the ball straight to the defender for what should be an easy INT. As far as fumbles go, they discount things like bad snaps, missed handoffs, dropped pitches, etc. that are traditionally assigned as fumbles by the QB but aren't really their fault. They also discount "strip-sacks that are unavoidable" as those are blamed on the pass-protection. Allen tends to have a lot of fumbles when he's running or trying too hard in the pocket on plays that probably wouldn't be blamed on the OLine, so it's no surprise that he's among the leaders in turnover-worthy plays. Also, it's total turnover-worthy plays, so naturally, if you're throwing the ball a ton/having your QB run a ton like Allen does, there are more opportunities for turnover-worthy plays than a lot of other QBs have. Edited May 19, 2021 by DCOrange
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