How many people would be libertarian if you believed they could win?

[Boatdrinks]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:42 AM, Unforgiven said:

I would agree with any party that was staunchly against idiotic leftist drivel

Right. Common sense must prevail. Leftists insist down is up and you must agree with them or be banished! Conservatism with a bit of a libertarian bent is the way to go. No, that doesn’t mean no food safety, no protection of the environment, etc etc. Government should have very little of a say in your day to day life, though. Defend our country, protect borders, protect the people and lock up criminals. These things are sound. Social engineering is not. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

41 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Most elderly lived in poverty until the Great Society improved their lives significantly 

 

Ya Great Society! 

Once again when you stop working your income goes down, but let is discuss the great society, it has cost us how much money and yet out poverty rate in 2020 is the same as it was 1965, it would seem to me to be woefully ineffective.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Once again when you stop working your income goes down, but let is discuss the great society, it has cost us how much money and yet out poverty rate in 2020 is the same as it was 1965, it would seem to me to be woefully ineffective.

The Great Society programs made old age a much better time for people. Good job Big Government! 

 

And some people still complain! Just whiners 

[Chef Jim]

Not me.  

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

The Great Society programs made old age a much better time for people. Good job Big Government! 

 

And some people still complain! Just whiners 

So you agree that it has been ineffective on the war on poverty?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Right. Common sense must prevail. Leftists insist down is up and you must agree with them or be banished! Conservatism with a bit of a libertarian bent is the way to go. No, that doesn’t mean no food safety, no protection of the environment, etc etc. Government should have very little of a say in your day to day life, though. Defend our country, protect borders, protect the people and lock up criminals. These things are sound. Social engineering is not. 

I can get on board with this.

 

I also say,

 

love who you want to love

marry who you want to marry 

dress how you want to dress

believe what you want to believe

 

And stop being offended by others opinions and stop worrying about how others choose to live their lives if it’s not impacting yours.  

[Tenhigh]

Lots of misinformation  in this thread.  People should read up before they post.  

https://www.lp.org/platform/

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

7 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Most elderly lived in poverty until the Great Society improved their lives significantly 

 

Ya Great Society! 

Tibsy was captain the Great Society Cheer Squad (pictured here), 1986-2014

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

56 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Tibsy was captain the Great Society Cheer Squad (pictured here), 1986-2014

And there’s nothing wrong with that. He looks really happy

Edited May 18, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

And there’s nothing wrong with that. He looks really happy

So happy, BUT.  The Ya Great Society cheer was uninspiring:

 

Ya Great Society!

Ya Great Society! 
We’re filled with righteous piety! 
Go Greaaaaaaaaat Society!  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

So happy, BUT.  The Ya Great Society cheer was uninspiring:

 

Ya Great Society!

Ya Great Society! 
We’re filled with righteous piety! 
Go Greaaaaaaaaat Society!  

Oh yeah great society was a sham... but the second grade history book version tibs knows sounds really great. 
 

He spent his covid stimulus on his boat, he’s probably better at defrauding gimme programs than any ten people you or I know. Hard core socialists are usually the same people that tell you how to lie to get the best insurance payouts and what to say to return used things for free... 

Their dirty secret is they like the federal program and social structures because they are expert at cheating them 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[JaCrispy]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:17 AM, Governor said:

Pat Buchanan was a libertarian. He was Trump before Trump. He was also a racist.

 

Trump took his platform/stump speech word for word.

Buchanan’s racism/white supremacy is pretty much on par with Biden’s imo...while Trump seems more xenophobic, if anything...

Edited May 19, 2021 by JaCrispy

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:48 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Trying to get a better handle on what folks are thinking 

 

Hello, my newfound free market fundamentalist friend! I’m curious to see the full results. We have ~30-40 semi-frequent visitors these days, I think. The poll, unfortunately, is a bit biased in favor of libertarians because they are more likely to click on this thread in the first place. Also, the wording of the first option is too vague since most people will agree to that stuff in principle. The details of public policy are what distinguish genuine libertarians from the rest. I would have slightly adjusted your 5 voting options like this:

 

1. I like the Libertarian Party’s platform the most.

2. I prefer someone like Bernie Sanders, the Green Party, the DSA, or the People’s Party.

3. I would prefer a more socially conservative Reagan-esque GOP, like under Mitt Romney.

4. I prefer the GOP under Donald Trump’s populist nationalist platform.

5. I prefer the Democrats with Joe Biden.

 

On 5/17/2021 at 7:29 AM, Governor said:

If you could get rid of S.S. and 50 other government programs by installing UBI and Universal HC, would that be more, less, or more efficient government?

 

Where I think both parties get it wrong is with means-testing and policy designed for certain groups. For example, there shouldn’t be major legislation designed to help only women and small children. It should help every American or not be created.

Can you name a moderate Republican?

 

Great question! The late Milton Friedman, a hero among libertarians, proposed this general idea in a somewhat different form called the “negative income tax.” It was a way to provide a social safety net while simultaneously removing the government bureaucratic middlemen. I don’t have a strong opinion on UBI at the moment, so I won’t answer your question. Lots of interesting test runs are being done on UBI throughout the world. Germany, for example, is doing one. You can look at the pandemic stimulus checks as a type of UBI experiment, too.

 

As far as the universal health care component goes, yes! Absolutely. Eliminate the health care insurance company middlemen. Nationalize the whole service already like we do with defense, police, fire department, etc… We should have done this back in 1946, but better late than never. Obamacare, public option, and whatever hoodwinking nonsense Trump was promoting are all no good. I prefer the UK model and would use the Australian model as a transition stage.

 

On 5/17/2021 at 8:51 AM, Tiberius said:

Don't Libertarians want to eliminate pollution controls? They just want to dump sewage in our lakes and coal slim everywhere. Why would anyone want that? 

 

Libertarians can't be trusted with anything. 

Trump's wall was seen as more big government to Libertarians

 

I don’t know, Tibsy, because I never receive a straight answer on environmental issues whenever I discuss them with libertarian purist types. Something about how I’m not defining precisely enough what I mean by the word “pollution.” Or how private individuals are the best stewards of property and that we should let wealthy CEO’s buy up national parks and other public lands. Or how government ruins everything it touches anyway (a classic “throw the baby out with the bath water” argument) because it lacks the all-powerful “profit motive” that can solve every single one of life’s problems.

 

Laissez-faire capitalism fails in the modern industrialized world for a multitude of reasons, many of which include its inability to address market failures such as externalities. Pollution is the main class of negative environmental externalities. A strong tendency among libertarians is to side with job creators, so they will frequently give industry polluters a free pass if environmental regulations would cut into company profits and lead to less jobs. They do this by downplaying or outright denying the environmental damage specified by scientists and health professionals. Two examples: Donald Trump’s well-documented war with the EPA, the anthropogenic global warming “debate.” If your economic toy model can’t effectively solve a problem, I guess try downplaying or denying the problem?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

On 5/18/2021 at 11:32 AM, Boatdrinks said:

Common sense must prevail.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Hello, my newfound free market fundamentalist friend! I’m curious to see the full results. We have ~30-40 semi-frequent visitors these days, I think. The poll, unfortunately, is a bit biased in favor of libertarians because they are more likely to click on this thread in the first place. Also, the wording of the first option is too vague since most people will agree to that stuff in principle. The details of public policy are what distinguish genuine libertarians from the rest. I would have slightly adjusted your 5 voting options like this:

 

1. I like the Libertarian Party’s platform the most.

2. I prefer someone like Bernie Sanders, the Green Party, the DSA, or the People’s Party.

3. I would prefer a more socially conservative Reagan-esque GOP, like under Mitt Romney.

4. I prefer the GOP under Donald Trump’s populist nationalist platform.

5. I prefer the Democrats with Joe Biden.

 

 

Great question! The late Milton Friedman, a hero among libertarians, proposed this general idea in a somewhat different form called the “negative income tax.” It was a way to provide a social safety net while simultaneously removing the government bureaucratic middlemen. I don’t have a strong opinion on UBI at the moment, so I won’t answer your question. Lots of interesting test runs are being done on UBI throughout the world. Germany, for example, is doing one. You can look at the pandemic stimulus checks as a type of UBI experiment, too.

 

As far as the universal health care component goes, yes! Absolutely. Eliminate the health care insurance company middlemen. Nationalize the whole service already like we do with defense, police, fire department, etc… We should have done this back in 1946, but better late than never. Obamacare, public option, and whatever hoodwinking nonsense Trump was promoting are all no good. I prefer the UK model and would use the Australian model as a transition stage.

 

 

I don’t know, Tibsy, because I never receive a straight answer on environmental issues whenever I discuss them with libertarian purist types. Something about how I’m not defining precisely enough what I mean by the word “pollution.” Or how private individuals are the best stewards of property and that we should let wealthy CEO’s buy up national parks and other public lands. Or how government ruins everything it touches anyway (a classic “throw the baby out with the bath water” argument) because it lacks the all-powerful “profit motive” that can solve every single one of life’s problems.

 

Laissez-faire capitalism fails in the modern industrialized world for a multitude of reasons, many of which include its inability to address market failures such as externalities. Pollution is the main class of negative environmental externalities. A strong tendency among libertarians is to side with job creators, so they will frequently give industry polluters a free pass if environmental regulations would cut into company profits and lead to less jobs. They do this by downplaying or outright denying the environmental damage specified by scientists and health professionals. Two examples: Donald Trump’s well-documented war with the EPA, the anthropogenic global warming “debate.” If your economic toy model can’t effectively solve a problem, I guess try downplaying or denying the problem?

Your poll questions are way better than mine. If I can edit I will although it invalidates the responses. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood