Does Gregory Rousseau need "redshirt" year?

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Didn't this guy opt out of last season. That flaw alone should have been a huge STOP sign. 
 

I was surprised they picked him at 30, let’s hope the risk pays off. 

He opted out because his mother was a nurse taking care of Covid patients and by signing with an agent he was able to get money to support his family so she didn’t have to expose herself to that situation.  In the process he probably cost himself a lot of money.

[JaCrispy]

14 hours ago, Putin said:

I was not a huge fan of taking Gregg Rousseau with our 30th pick , now I’m not going to sit here and say that Rousseau will be our next Bruce Smith , But I sure as hell trust  Bean and his entire scouting team  who have been working & doing their homework for almost a year then I do some CBS writer , 

 

I thought he was a 2nd/3rd round value and was pissed when the Bills took him, given the better talent that was still on the board, in addition to the fact that Beane has not done well enough with the front 7 to earn my trust...this pick certainly does not help his cause...

[H2o]

Simply put, no. He needs to be out there getting used to the speed of the NFL and learning the game. I have full confidence in our coaching staff to get him prepared and he will be out there when they feel he's ready. I do feel that Basham will make the more immediate impact, but Rousseau's athletic profile is something for Bills fans to be excited about. Just watch the Cover 1 breakdown of his game. 

[BigdaddyinOrlando]

I think he will be in the same pitch count as AJ was. AJ was definitely hurt by not having the mini camps ahead of time, that is invaluable teaching points. He will very much benefit from this and will be fine. JMO

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't want to beat up Trapasso too much because I also see Rousseau as a long-term project.   But I think its odd he's so critical of Rousseau's game tape and says Rousseau didn't win one-on-one battles.  Trapasso never explains how Rousseau was so damned productive if he was so poorly skilled.  It seems to me Trapasso clearly saw Roussea's shortcomings but is blind to his strengths.  

 

I knew next to nothing about Rousseau when we picked him so I quickly got on Youtube and watched some highlights.  What I saw was a raw, tall, gangly kid.  But I also saw a young player who was clearly more athletic than the guys trying to block him.  Roussea earned his sacks & pressures every way possible: by speed, by power, by persistence.  

 

I thought Rousseau's unpolished skill set was understandable given his youth and newness to the position.  In 2017, he was a high school safety and WR.  In 2019, he was terrorizing college QBs playing on the defensive line.  His rawness didn't bother me at all under the circumstances.  

 

What did bother me was Rousseau's disappointing pro day numbers.  Normally, I'd expect a 1st rounder to excel both on the playing and the practice field.   I'm not sure Rousseau possesses - right now - the strength and agility to excel in the NFL.  But he's just 21 and took a year off for Covid so its hard to tell how much stronger and better he can become.  

 

In the end, I agree with what others have said: I trust Beane and our scouts more than I trust Trapasso.  And I can't imagine McD not giving Rousseau reps in the rotation.  

I agree with your take on Rousseau.  I was not a fan of the pick for the above reasons and due to his film.  His length is impressive and he is persistent, but with his rawness and other shortcomings I just didn’t see a prospect worth close to 30th overall.  Of course if he develops well and puts it all together it could pay off.  

[dpberr]

I wouldn't redshirt him.  I think he will surprise early on because OLs haven't seen him before.  You may see a sack or two in the first game or two and you'll be impressed by what he's doing.   The Bills want their DL to do a lot of different things (see Oliver, Epenesa) so don't expect to see Rousseau just running downhill at the quarterback play after play, even if it's what he excels at.  

 

Around the middle of the season, you'll start to see the struggle set in as OLs have countermeasured.  That's where you start to find out the kind of football player you have.  Can you teach him new moves and strategies?  Can he incorporate them into his game?  

[John from Riverside]

I think he’s in a pretty good situation he won’t be the counted on guy this year but he will get reps maybe by the end of the year he is actually stealing reps from veterans

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree with your take on Rousseau.  I was not a fan of the pick for the above reasons and due to his film.  His length is impressive and he is persistent, but with his rawness and other shortcomings I just didn’t see a prospect worth close to 30th overall.  Of course if he develops well and puts it all together it could pay off.  

Not tearing into you for your opinion I’m just wondering what shortcomings you were referring to

[TC in St. Louis]

I heard Trapasso on Joe Marino's podcast.  Marino had Rousseau 25th on his board, and Trapasso had Basham as a first round talent.  Let's hope Marino is right about Rousseau and Trapasso is right about Basham.

 

You don't get 15.5 sacks in Division I football by accident.  I believe he will be a key player in our pass rush.  

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't want to beat up Trapasso too much because I also see Rousseau as a long-term project.   But I think its odd he's so critical of Rousseau's game tape and says Rousseau didn't win one-on-one battles.  Trapasso never explains how Rousseau was so damned productive if he was so poorly skilled.  It seems to me Trapasso clearly saw Roussea's shortcomings but is blind to his strengths.  

 

I knew next to nothing about Rousseau when we picked him so I quickly got on Youtube and watched some highlights.  What I saw was a raw, tall, gangly kid.  But I also saw a young player who was clearly more athletic than the guys trying to block him.  Roussea earned his sacks & pressures every way possible: by speed, by power, by persistence.  

 

I thought Rousseau's unpolished skill set was understandable given his youth and newness to the position.  In 2017, he was a high school safety and WR.  In 2019, he was terrorizing college QBs playing on the defensive line.  His rawness didn't bother me at all under the circumstances.  

 

What did bother me was Rousseau's disappointing pro day numbers.  Normally, I'd expect a 1st rounder to excel both on the playing and the practice field.   I'm not sure Rousseau possesses - right now - the strength and agility to excel in the NFL.  But he's just 21 and took a year off for Covid so its hard to tell how much stronger and better he can become.  

 

In the end, I agree with what others have said: I trust Beane and our scouts more than I trust Trapasso.  And I can't imagine McD not giving Rousseau reps in the rotation.  

 

 

Trapasso is looking for traits that resemble those most common in successful players at that position.

 

That's a good place to start...........but he needs to broaden his perspective to be a better talent evaluator...........see his rank on Josh Allen in @Albany,n.y.'s post.

 

Now I'm not saying Rousseau is going to become an NFLDPOY............but there were analysts who used the same kind of logic on Aaron Donald and JJ Watt that Trapasso uses in his evaluation of GR.

 

Watt was seen by many as a just a big two gapping, 3-4 DE at the NFL level.    A potentially very good one........maybe like Richard Seymour.........but not the pass game terror he became.

 

Donald was seen as lacking the size and length and bend to beat NFL offensive lineman whether inside or out..........to some he was a what they call in baseball a Quad A prospect........good enough to dominate at the next highest level but not excel at the highest.  So his incredible production was seen as a largely unprojectable.

 

Watt and Donald didn't just play well though........they had dominated the man in front of them........just in un-traditional ways.

 

They both probably should have gone #1 overall. 

 

If your standard for a pass rusher is Von Miller and you are looking at the traits that make HIM great like his bend and speed and variety of traditional pass rushing moves..........then maybe you don't see how GR uses his long stride to present blocking situations OL aren't trained for........ or his height and awareness to locate the ball so that he's in position to make plays on it.......or his giant hands to make tackles when it appears that they are out of reach for an NFL defender.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

It's important to remember that Rousseau had almost no game experience as a DL when he got on the field in 2019 and lost a season of development as a true freshman in 2018 when he broke his ankle at the beginning of the season.

 

He immediately started dominating.

 

Compare that to AJ Epenesa..........he was a very rare 5 star recruit for Iowa.........a healthy scratch redshirt as a freshman.......didn't become a starter until the end of his redshirt sophomore season.    And of course, never dominated to the level that Rousseau did.

 

AJ's history was that he needed a good deal of acclimation when he moved up a level...........even if he was the most talented guy in the room..........so his low statistical output was pretty easy to anticipate.

 

I don't think it's a given that GR will need time to hone his craft for a year before he can contribute at the things he did well at the college level.

 

 

[BrainwashedBillsFan]

Is this a real question. Of course he’s gonna be in the rotation. My god 

[BarleyNY]

40 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think he’s in a pretty good situation he won’t be the counted on guy this year but he will get reps maybe by the end of the year he is actually stealing reps from veterans

Not tearing into you for your opinion I’m just wondering what shortcomings you were referring to

I agree on his situation.  His only effective move seems to be using his long arms to shed his blocker.  He has no ability to get low and bend an edge and his change of direction is not good enough to turn in on the QB if he can beat an OT to the outside.  His highlight reel did not even impress me.  He beat up on some bad linemen.  

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

This guy let his team and his career down by not playing because his mother is a nurse? That makes no sense.  Rousseau opted out for the same reason Star did...

OK well you’re entitled to your opinion
 

I don’t see where that has anything to do with the football short coming

Edited May 16, 2021 by John from Riverside

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree on his situation.  His only effective move seems to be using his long arms to shed his blocker.  He has no ability to get low and bend an edge and his change of direction is not good enough to turn in on the QB if he can beat an OT to the outside.  His highlight reel did not even impress me.  He beat up on some bad linemen.  

 

 

The Cover 1 feature does a pretty good job of illustrating what you aren't noticing that made Rousseau so effective.  

 

I'm a lot more concerned about Basham transitioning as a rookie.    It's one thing being a raw 19 year old beating those "bad lineman"..........it's less impressive when it's a 22-23 year old like Basham was.   He was closer to his ceiling and the things he does best are stock traits that NFL OL sees every snap.  

 

I don't know who was advising him, but he probably would have been better served going into the draft last year and getting NFL experience and instruction and accruing a year of service so if things work out he could hit free agency at age 26 or 27 instead of possibly not until after his age 28 season.   Teams don't want those huge 4-5 year deals ending much past 30.   Hopefully he has a good, long career........but turning 24 in your rookie season is a late start.   Ask Kelvin Benjamin how much money playing on his 5th year option at age 28 probably cost him.   

[Mark Vader]

No

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I thought he was a 2nd/3rd round value and was pissed when the Bills took him, given the better talent that was still on the board, in addition to the fact that Beane has not done well enough with the front 7 to earn my trust...this pick certainly does not help his cause...

What has Beane not done well with in the draft with the front 7?  Oliver has shown a lot of promise and could have a breakout year with more size now on the line allowing him to be flourish more.  And like 95% of this board was praying we would draft Oliver and even wanted to trade up to get him.  

 

AJE was another popular guy this board wanted drafted and was looking quite good late in the season and in the playoffs and very much has a legit shot at winning the starting gig week 1 this year and at the very least will be heavily involved in the rotation.  
 

Harrisson Phillips was developing too before his injury and it usually takes a full year of playing to truly get back to pre-injury form for most players with that injury. Probably isn’t destined for pro bowls, but he still has upside as a potentially solid rotational player.  

 

Then there is Milano (McD) and Edmunds (2x Pro Bowler said who is still developing even more).  

 

I don’t understand how some people criticize Beane in regards to how he’s drafted in regard to the front 7.  We have a lot of young talent, most of which is either an ascending player (Oliver, AJE)  or already proven to be good or better.  
 

Im excited about both our new DE’s, even though I’m not sure how much play time they are a huge get this year given our depth.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Cover 1 feature does a pretty good job of illustrating what you aren't noticing that made Rousseau so effective.  

 

I'm a lot more concerned about Basham transitioning as a rookie.    It's one thing being a raw 19 year old beating those "bad lineman"..........it's less impressive when it's a 22-23 year old like Basham was.   He was closer to his ceiling and the things he does best are stock traits that NFL OL sees every snap.  

 

I don't know who was advising him, but he probably would have been better served going into the draft last year and getting NFL experience and instruction and accruing a year of service so if things work out he could hit free agency at age 26 or 27 instead of possibly not until after his age 28 season.   Teams don't want those huge 4-5 year deals ending much past 30.   Hopefully he has a good, long career........but turning 24 in your rookie season is a late start.   Ask Kelvin Benjamin how much money playing on his 5th year option at age 28 probably cost him.   
 

While I appreciate what the guys at Cover 1 do, I think they take a very positive view of the Bills and don’t take a hard look at negatives.  I thought they did that with Rousseau.  But maybe they’re right.  Maybe what he can do well will make him a very effective player.  That’s certainly possible.  I’m particularly interested in how he handles rushing from the interior.  I think that will be a big part of his game if he’s successful in the NFL. 

[colin]

I think this guy is actually correct that Groot didn't get a lot of shine from any kind of one on one pass rush, or dipping and bending around to the passer.  The thing is, our dl last year has a near the top pass rush win rate, and we didn't disrupt the passer anywhere nearly enough.  St some point, somebody has to finish the play.

 

Imo, that's what both of our first two picks show ab ability to do, Groot with what looks like the greater upside and pass rush, boogie with being stout and cleaning up the run and such.

 

Big long with a sick get off and good instinct (cuz he barely knows how to play the position at this point in his career) are some serious traits for a DE, and I think he can ride that, along w the strong depth we have at dl (even though no one really stands out) giving him lessons, competition, and perhaps most importantly physical and mental relief as he rotates in.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

While I appreciate what the guys at Cover 1 do, I think they take a very positive view of the Bills and don’t take a hard look at negatives.  I thought they did that with Rousseau.  But maybe they’re right.  Maybe what he can do well will make him a very effective player.  That’s certainly possible.  I’m particularly interested in how he handles rushing from the interior.  I think that will be a big part of his game if he’s successful in the NFL. 

 

I always weigh anything Cover 1 does against what I see myself and sometimes I disagree with them as well.

 

But with Rousseau I think they actually missed an important aspect.........his hands.    When players break the mold there are often aspects about them that are hard to draw comparisons to.   That's Rousseau's hands for a pass rusher.

 

 Rousseau has Wilt Chamberlin sized hands..........the same size as Kawhi Leonard.......whose massive hands help make him the best defender in the NBA and an MVP candidate capable of playing small or very big basketball........despite having the height of a tweener.    

 

Rousseau uses those hands to lock out OL......allowing him to keep his eye on the ball.........and then he uses them to finish plays that others can't.   His arm length is fully functional.  I know people look at a few of his "shoestring" tackles in highlights and discount his impact on those plays.......but it's not luck.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I always weigh anything Cover 1 does against what I see myself and sometimes I disagree with them as well.

 

But with Rousseau I think they actually missed an important aspect.........his hands.    When players break the mold there are often aspects about them that are hard to draw comparisons to.   That's Rousseau's hands for a pass rusher.

 

 Rousseau has Wilt Chamberlin sized hands..........the same size as Kawhi Leonard.......whose massive hands help make him the best defender in the NBA and an MVP candidate capable of playing small or very big basketball........despite having the height of a tweener.    

 

Rousseau uses those hands to lock out OL......allowing him to keep his eye on the ball.........and then he uses them to finish plays that others can't.   His arm length is fully functional.  I know people look at a few of his "shoestring" tackles in highlights and discount his impact on those plays.......but it's not luck.

 

 

One of the things I like about his length is that it gives him a huge “tackling radius”.