Orlando Buffalo Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 6 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: He's very funny, very bright and not wrong, yet. Correlation doesn't mean causation. People with lighters in their pockets get lung cancer more often. Doesn't mean lighters cause lung cancer. You are truly special here, this is one of a few places on the planet they are looking at SARs virus and COVID was a SARs virus. This is like arguing that I live next to a zoo and I found a giraffe in front yard but it might not be a zoo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said: You are truly special here, this is one of a few places on the planet they are looking at SARs virus and COVID was a SARs virus. This is like arguing that I live next to a zoo and I found a giraffe in front yard but it might not be a zoo. 4/6 US intel agencies are also very special....but it's all a huge conspiracy cuz they're all big China supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: 4/6 US intel agencies are also very special....but it's all a huge conspiracy cuz they're all big China supporters. Incompetent is not conspiracy, but once again showing your specialness trying to explain that the US government has never lied in its history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Incompetent is not conspiracy, but once again showing your specialness trying to explain that the US government has never lied in its history. well you just lied about research centers for covid and corona viruses. a quick search found this https://www.pennmedicine.org/research-at-penn/research-specialty-areas/penn-research-programs-and-interests/coronavirus-research-center as well as many other centers in the US including Cornell, Hopkins and Vanderbilt. I didn't look outside the US... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, Doc said: More like people with lighters and cigarettes in their pocket get lung cancer. We’re saying it’s the cigarettes, you’re saying it’s the lighter. omg...had you actually attended medical school you would have been taught and understood this concept early on. it's really not difficult....i'm saying that we still don't definitively know. Edited June 22 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: well you just lied about research centers for covid and corona viruses. a quick search found this https://www.pennmedicine.org/research-at-penn/research-specialty-areas/penn-research-programs-and-interests/coronavirus-research-center as well as many other centers in the US including Cornell, Hopkins and Vanderbilt. I didn't look outside the US... Do you think COVID research centers are more prevalent than zoos with Giraffes? I never insinuated it was the only one, the fact you missed the obvious comparison shows strongly that you are not up to any discussion based on logic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Do you think COVID research centers are more prevalent than zoos with Giraffes? I never insinuated it was the only one, the fact you missed the obvious comparison shows strongly that you are not up to any discussion based on logic. 3 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said: his is one of a few places on the planet stop lying. btw, the link between cigarettes and Lung Ca has only been known for about 75 years. before that, lighters or matches could have been blamed but science sorted it out https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22345227/#:~:text=Cigarettes were recognised as the,conspiracy to salvage cigarette sales. One of the more interesting epidemiological derived origin understanding was Human Papiloma virus which causes genital warts and cervical Ca. Somebody noticed that nuns virtually never get cervical Ca and put it all together. Edited June 22 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: omg...had you actually attended medical school you would have been taught and understood this concept early on. it's really not difficult....i'm saying that we still don't definitively know. Your actually argument is that correlation does not indicate causation. Logically you look for correlation first and work from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Your actually argument is that correlation does not indicate causation. Logically you look for correlation first and work from there. Which is exactly what is being done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: stop lying. btw, the link between cigarettes and Lung Ca has only been known for about 75 years. before that, lighters or matches could have been blamed but science sorted it out https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22345227/#:~:text=Cigarettes were recognised as the,conspiracy to salvage cigarette sales. One of the more interesting epidemiological derived origin understanding was Human Pappiloma virus which causes genital warts and cervical Ca. Somebody noticed that nuns virtually never get cervical Ca and put it all together. There are less than 60 total labs for high risk viruses on the planet and only a portion of them deal with SARs. BTW here is an article from 2017 about the lab and the risks it poses https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2017.21487 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: There are less than 60 total labs for high risk viruses on the planet and only a portion of them deal with SARs. BTW here is an article from 2017 about the lab and the risks it poses https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2017.21487 This is a cool paper. Of course any lab working with deadly pathogens is a safety concern...but that doesn't prove the origin of covid. Here's a reference cited in this paper that shows there were about 1500 high risk pathogen labs in the US in 2009. Where does the 60 number come from? https://www.nature.com/articles/461577a Edited June 22 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: This is a cool paper. Of course any lab working with deadly pathogens is a safety concern...but that doesn't prove the origin of covid. Here's a reference cited in this paper that shows there were about 1500 high risk pathogen labs in the US in 2009. Where does the 60 number come from? https://www.nature.com/articles/461577a https://www.kcl.ac.uk/fifty-nine-labs-around-world-handle-the-deadliest-pathogens-only-a-quarter-score-high-on-safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/fifty-nine-labs-around-world-handle-the-deadliest-pathogens-only-a-quarter-score-high-on-safety Here's what the nature article says: "n a report released last week, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) noted that the number of BSL-3 and BSL-4 laboratories registered with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta, Georgia, more than tripled between 2004 and 2008 (see chart). But this number doesn't include all such labs, because labs working with some dangerous pathogens, including those that can cause tuberculosis and severe acute respiratory syndrome, are not required to register." I can't imagine they're not being killer viruses at BLS 3 labs given there are unregistered facilities handling TB. BTW, this article has no citations so the sources can't be checked. Additionally, the author is a "reader in Science" which by my understanding is the UK version of an instructor, At any rate, 60 is more than my threshold for "a few" ... edit: Her CV is impressive although her Phd is in sociology. Still, she co authored this paper on differentiating natural from lab origins for infections. The case study on Anthrax is amazing and helped inform the decision tree presented here, which is from consensus among experts. It's how science works. https://nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Investigating-Outbreaks.pdf Edited June 22 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Here's what the nature article says: "n a report released last week, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) noted that the number of BSL-3 and BSL-4 laboratories registered with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta, Georgia, more than tripled between 2004 and 2008 (see chart). But this number doesn't include all such labs, because labs working with some dangerous pathogens, including those that can cause tuberculosis and severe acute respiratory syndrome, are not required to register." I can't imagine they're not being killer viruses at BLS 3 labs given there are unregistered facilities handling TB. BTW, this article has no citations so the sources can't be checked. Additionally, the author is a "reader in Science" which by my understanding is the UK version of an instructor, At any rate, 60 is more than my threshold for "a few" ... edit: Her CV is impressive although her Phd is in sociology. Still, she co authored this paper on differentiating natural from lab origins for infections. The case study on Anthrax is amazing and helped inform the decision tree presented here, which is from consensus among experts. It's how science works. https://nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Investigating-Outbreaks.pdf I like the fact that you are picking my usage of the word few instead of recognizing the facts that would indicate to any logical person the lab was the source. We have an article warning of it happening from 2 years prior. The lab was working on gain of function of a SARs virus. Those in power choose to call the lab leak a "conspiracy theory" when there was literally zero evidence other than the word of the Chinese government who promptly destroyed the market place. I won't argue any further with you because the lack of evidence either way should point to the lab because the Chinese government is known for lying, while if it was natural we could recreate the events, which we can not. Your trust in Fauci is fascinating to me but not worth more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 9 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: I like the fact that you are picking my usage of the word few instead of recognizing the facts that would indicate to any logical person the lab was the source. We have an article warning of it happening from 2 years prior. The lab was working on gain of function of a SARs virus. Those in power choose to call the lab leak a "conspiracy theory" when there was literally zero evidence other than the word of the Chinese government who promptly destroyed the market place. I won't argue any further with you because the lack of evidence either way should point to the lab because the Chinese government is known for lying, while if it was natural we could recreate the events, which we can not. Your trust in Fauci is fascinating to me but not worth more time. If it was natural, how could we recreate the events? This makes no sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 6 minutes ago, Scraps said: If it was natural, how could we recreate the events? This makes no sense. Am I being trolled? You could show how it started in a bat, moved to the pangolin, and then moved to a human, or whatever process you think it took. We can show how swine flu transmits to humans and avian flu does also. This one does not work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said: Am I being trolled? You could show how it started in a bat, moved to the pangolin, and then moved to a human, or whatever process you think it took. We can show how swine flu transmits to humans and avian flu does also. This one does not work that way. It took 14 years to trace SARS-1 back to bats. It could take that long with SARS-2. The source of many outbreaks of Ebola are never solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Orlando Buffalo said: I like the fact that you are picking my usage of the word few instead of recognizing the facts that would indicate to any logical person the lab was the source. We have an article warning of it happening from 2 years prior. The lab was working on gain of function of a SARs virus. Those in power choose to call the lab leak a "conspiracy theory" when there was literally zero evidence other than the word of the Chinese government who promptly destroyed the market place. I won't argue any further with you because the lack of evidence either way should point to the lab because the Chinese government is known for lying, while if it was natural we could recreate the events, which we can not. Your trust in Fauci is fascinating to me but not worth more time. MAGA's seem to always know better...just because. Or "it's obvious" or" I researched it" often with little to no science background. And then label a large group of recognized experts experts illogical. All because they don't agree with them. Fauci is a hero of mine. He was an editor for the Infectious disease text I studied which remains the bible of ID. He is nearly universally respected and admired in the medical and scientific communities. Before Covid, most hadn't heard of him except perhaps for his work with AIDS, when he did clinical work around patients with an incurable and fatal disease. What would his motivation be to lie to us all? To make the pandemic even worse? btw, ID is one of the lowest paying medical specialties. This is not a selfish or greedy man. He's in his 80's, almost certainly financially stable. I'd guess his prime motivation is his family, followed by his legacy. I just hate that they've been hurt and it's been sullied by people that really don't know what they're talking about. 1 hour ago, Scraps said: It took 14 years to trace SARS-1 back to bats. It could take that long with SARS-2. The source of many outbreaks of Ebola are never solved. What is your tie to ID, microbiology or virology? Way more knowledge here than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 30 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: MAGA's seem to always know better...just because. Or "it's obvious" or" I researched it" often with little to no science background. And then label a large group of recognized experts experts illogical. All because they don't agree with them. Fauci is a hero of mine. He was an editor for the Infectious disease text I studied which remains the bible of ID. He is nearly universally respected and admired in the medical and scientific communities. Before Covid, most hadn't heard of him except perhaps for his work with AIDS, when he did clinical work around patients with an incurable and fatal disease. What would his motivation be to lie to us all? To make the pandemic even worse? btw, ID is one of the lowest paying medical specialties. This is not a selfish or greedy man. He's in his 80's, almost certainly financially stable. I'd guess his prime motivation is his family, followed by his legacy. I just hate that they've been hurt and it's been sullied by people that really don't know what they're talking about. What is your tie to ID, microbiology or virology? Way more knowledge here than usual. Why would this saintly man, your hero, and his cohorts have interest in quickly shutting down discussion of a potential lab leak? What was to be gained by doing so? He certainly had a reason. Hero worshipers like yourself are unwilling to offer any thought at all. Very strange. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, JDHillFan said: Why would this saintly man, your hero, and his cohorts have interest in quickly shutting down discussion of a potential lab leak? What was to be gained by doing so? He certainly had a reason. Hero worshipers like yourself are unwilling to offer any thought at all. Very strange. Because he doesn’t believe the origin was the lab. He could be wrong. But so far no one has proven him wrong. If he is found to be wrong, so be it. Many people we’re wrong about many things about the novel virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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