Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Just now, njbuff said: Do you say that to your boyfriend when you are tickling his junk? You probably think this is clever as well. It’s not.
njbuff Posted June 5 Posted June 5 50 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: You probably think this is clever as well. It’s not. Something you OBVIOUSLY you're not. 1
Doc Posted June 5 Posted June 5 8 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: the downside was that it didn't work, dummy How it that a "downside" when it was a safe drug and there was nothing else to treat Wuhan virus with, moron? 1
BillsFanNC Posted June 5 Posted June 5 How can we tell that Quack, MD is indeed a quack? Clinicaltrials.gov: Disease: covid-19 Intervention: hydroxychloroquine Results: 263 https://clinicaltrials.gov/search?cond=Covid19&intr=hydroxychloroquine&viewType=Table&page=2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 30 minutes ago, Doc said: How it that a "downside" when it was a safe drug and there was nothing else to treat Wuhan virus with, moron? There is no such thing as a “safe” drug. All have risks. All have potential side effects. That’s why we have prescriptions…. 18 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: How can we tell that Quack, MD is indeed a quack? Clinicaltrials.gov: Disease: covid-19 Intervention: hydroxychloroquine Results: 263 https://clinicaltrials.gov/search?cond=Covid19&intr=hydroxychloroquine&viewType=Table&page=2 I stopped reading after the 1st study was withdrawn and the second came out of Turkey.
Scraps Posted June 5 Posted June 5 18 hours ago, Doc said: At least it was an attempt to try and fight a disease with no known treatment at the time, moron. Meanwhile idiots like you bought the "it's so dangerous, we can't use it" and "Trump made it up because he once owned stock in it" lines from people who didn't want it to be used and possibly work. 18 hours ago, Doc said: Yes because we had all the time in the world to wait and see if this safe drug would work. But sure, we were able to rush through the vaccines... I believe I mentioned this to you 4 years ago. One of he problems with assuming a drug with no proven efficacy in a situation like a pandemic of a highly transmissible disease is that there was a limited supply and manufacturing chain for the drug. People who were using and actually needed the drug for ailments other than Covid could no longer get the drug because people like you were trying to get it for no useful purpose. Furthermore, Covid affects the cardiovascular system and so does HCQ. It turns out the drug may have contributed to the deaths of many people who had Covid. There was simply no excuse not to wait for clinical trial on the drug.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 2 minutes ago, Scraps said: I believe I mentioned this to you 4 years ago. One of he problems with assuming a drug with no proven efficacy in a situation like a pandemic of a highly transmissible disease is that there was a limited supply and manufacturing chain for the drug. People who were using and actually needed the drug for ailments other than Covid could no longer get the drug because people like you were trying to get it for no useful purpose. Furthermore, Covid affects the cardiovascular system and so does HCQ. It turns out the drug may have contributed to the deaths of many people who had Covid. There was simply no excuse not to wait for clinical trial on the drug. here's some further info on the safety of HCQ. Most patients see eye professionals for regular checks ups to ensure catching this debilitating complication: https://eyewiki.aao.org/Hydroxychloroquine_Toxicity#:~:text=The early signs of hydroxychloroquine,and hyperpigmentation surrounding the fovea. You'd expect a doctor to know this stuff...
BillsFanNC Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Don't tell us Quack.... all those researchers who sponsored the HCQ research are all MAGA. We know. Perhaps HCQ might work for TDS?
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Don't tell us Quack.... all those researchers who sponsored the HCQ research are all MAGA. We know. Perhaps HCQ might work for TDS? HCQ is a useful drug especially in rheumatology. the benefits often outweigh the risks. Find a review paper on its efficacy in covid and we can talk.
Scraps Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) 18 hours ago, Doc said: Why? It was a safe drug that hundreds of millions of people had used since its creation 70 years earlier. What was the downside? There wasn't a single other treatment available, there was empirical evidence it worked and time was of the essence. Why did imbeciles from your side of the aisle lie about it being dangerous? Did you stop to ask yourself that question? There is a limited supply of Ivermectin and a limited supply chain. When a significant portion of the world's population suddenly wants a drug, it drives the price of the drug up making it cost prohibitive for people who actually need it. Half my family is pro vaccine and half anti vaccine. Half believes in scientifically proven drugs like Paxlovid and half believes in ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. A few months ago, my 94 year old mother, my 66 year old sister (whose immune system is weak because of cancer treatments) and her obese husband got Covid. I talked to a clinic that could have seen them on day 4 and prescribed Paxlovid. The anti-vax half of my family instead called a friend who had a South American maid who smuggles ivermectin and HCQ in from her trips home. I refer to her as Francesca the Mule. There are numerous problems with this. Having any belief that these ineffective drugs are a viable option interferes with getting people to take the effective drugs. I looked up the price being charged for the ivermectin and HCQ and while Francesca the Mule wasn't gouging, she was making a decent profit. I also found out the price of Ivermectin had risen about 900% during the pandemic down in South America. This cost may be prohibitive for people who actually need those drugs for parasites. Also, you have no idea what is in the pills smuggled in by Francesca the Mule. Maybe it is ivermectin, but how do you really know? Edited June 5 by Scraps typo
Doc Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said: There is no such thing as a “safe” drug. All have risks. All have potential side effects. That’s why we have prescriptions…. 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: here's some further info on the safety of HCQ. Most patients see eye professionals for regular checks ups to ensure catching this debilitating complication: https://eyewiki.aao.org/Hydroxychloroquine_Toxicity#:~:text=The early signs of hydroxychloroquine,and hyperpigmentation surrounding the fovea. You'd expect a doctor to know this stuff... LOL! You'd expect a doctor to know what "safe" means when talking about a drug. They all have side effects and many require some sort of surveillance. And the article you linked it talking about chronic usage (meaning people are on it for years...and not dying 😱) of it. Just now, Scraps said: I believe I mentioned this to you 4 years ago. One of he problems with assuming a drug with no proven efficacy in a situation like a pandemic of a highly transmissible disease is that there was a limited supply and manufacturing chain for the drug. People who were using and actually needed the drug for ailments other than Covid could no longer get the drug because people like you were trying to get it for no useful purpose. Furthermore, Covid affects the cardiovascular system and so does HCQ. It turns out the drug may have contributed to the deaths of many people who had Covid. There was simply no excuse not to wait for clinical trial on the drug. Yeah there was a limited supply. So people on it chronically would have been impacted because a pandemic was killing people and there was no other treatment. And true, you don't prescribe it for everyone. That's true for every drug ever made. No the excuse was that it was a drug with decades of being used by hundreds of millions of people safely and we didn't have time to do clinical trials. It would have been a stop-gap until the vaccines and other treatments were available, later in the year. Had it been a completely new drug whose safety was unknown, yes I would agree with you that you don't just give it to people.
Scraps Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Doc said: LOL! You'd expect a doctor to know what "safe" means when talking about a drug. They all have side effects and many require some sort of surveillance. And the article you linked it talking about chronic usage (meaning people are on it for years...and not dying 😱) of it. Yeah there was a limited supply. So people on it chronically would have been impacted because a pandemic was killing people and there was no other treatment. And true, you don't prescribe it for everyone. That's true for every drug ever made. No the excuse was that it was a drug with decades of being used by hundreds of millions of people safely and we didn't have time to do clinical trials. It would have been a stop-gap until the vaccines and other treatments were available, later in the year. Had it been a completely new drug whose safety was unknown, yes I would agree with you that you don't just give it to people. It wasn't a treatment. It actually contributed to more deaths. Edited June 5 by Scraps more info
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) meta review on hcq for covid. doc and nc should look up "meta analysis". this one was limited to prospective studies (which are the most powerful). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8420202/#:~:text=A meta‐review 21 of,higher risk of adverse events. "Doc" if you read the AOA piece, you'd realize that all new patients should be screened thru a thorough eye exam as those with preexisting disease have a higher risk. You do discuss potential side effects when administering drugs, right? To not is begging for a malpractice case. here's a more recent one: https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cts.13468 Edited June 5 by Joe Ferguson forever
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 12 minutes ago, Doc said: They all have side effects yes, i just wrote that.
Doc Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Scraps said: There is a limited supply of Ivermectin and a limited supply chain. When a significant portion of the world's population suddenly wants a drug, it drives the price of the drug up making it cost prohibitive for people who actually need it. Half my family is pro vaccine and half anti vaccine. Half believes in scientifically proven drugs like Paxlovid and half believes in ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. A few months ago, my 94 year old mother, my 66 year old sister (whose immune system is weak because of cancer treatments) and her obese husband got Covid. I talked to a clinic that could have seen them on day 4 and prescribed Paxlovid. The anti-vax half of my family instead called a friend who had a South American maid who smuggles ivermectin and HCQ in from her trips home. I refer to her as Francesca the Mule. There are numerous problems with this. Having any belief that these ineffective drugs are a viable option interferes with getting people to take the effective drugs. I looked up the price being charged for the ivermectin and HCQ and while Francesca the Mule wasn't gouging, she was making a decent profit. I also found out the price of Ivermectin had risen about 900% during the pandemic down in South America. This cost may be prohibitive for people who actually need those drugs for parasites. Also, you have no idea what is in the pills smuggled in by Francesca the Mule. Maybe it is ivermectin, but how do you really know? Yes we have better treatments now. I addressed that above. And sure, you shouldn't trust drugs you don't get from an American pharmacy/prescribed by a doctor. Again something that shouldn't need to be said. 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yes, i just wrote that. Congrats, you wrote something everyone already knew. Edited June 5 by Doc
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Doc said: Yes we have better treatments now. I addressed that above. And sure, you shouldn't trust drugs you don't get from an American pharmacy/prescribed by a doctor. Again something that shouldn't need to be said. Congrats, you wrote something everyone already knew. Great. Perhaps you can incorporate that fact into your thinking. It's why mainstream docs don't prescribe unproven drugs. btw, do you imagine congressman McCormick explaining this to ER pts, ensuring a pretreatment eye exam and following up on the treatment? I sure don't. Edited June 5 by Joe Ferguson forever 1
Scraps Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Doc said: Yes we have better treatments now. Fixed that for ya. Edited June 5 by Scraps deletion 1
Doc Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said: Great. Perhaps you can incorporate that fact into your thinking. It's why mainstream docs don't prescribe unproven drugs. You'd be surprised how many "mainstream docs" prescribed HCQ during the early portion of the pandemic. Or used it themselves.
Scraps Posted June 5 Posted June 5 1 minute ago, Doc said: You'd be surprised how many "mainstream docs" prescribed HCQ during the early portion of the pandemic. Or used it themselves. Turns out they weren't doing anyone any favors. Might have done some damage though.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 5 Posted June 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Scraps said: Turns out they weren't doing anyone any favors. Might have done some damage though. They did do some damage: A meta‐review 21 of systematic reviews and updated meta‐analysis concluded that treatment with HCQ and CQ with or without azithromycin did not reduce mortality in COVID‐19 infection but was associated with a higher risk of adverse events. However, despite the lack of clear evidence of efficacy and presence of valid concerns regarding safety, HCQ continues to be used widely in the management of COVID‐19 infection. (from my first linked paper) Keep digging "Doc". you and they were wrong then and you're wrong now. You've beaten that broken drum long enough. Edited June 5 by Joe Ferguson forever
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