Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Scraps said: The article listed the DNA of several mammals and specifically the racoon dog that is quite susceptible to SARS Cov-2. It said it found high concentrations of the virus in the same location as high concentrations of the racoon dog DNA and low concentrations of human DNA. Why would humans have brought it to that particular are of that particular market? Why not restaurants, bars, temples, grocery stores, malls... Why that particular area of that particular market? Please stop. My head hurts! 😁I agree that the simultaneous presence of a suspicious market and a suspicious lab is confounding. I believe what fauci is putting his weight on is the sequencing. He thinks it much more likely that the mutation was natural versus synthetic. At least, that’s my understanding. Not a molecular biologist but neither is anyone posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) JIM MEIGS: The Fauci Covid Conspiracy. “We told you so. There’s probably a more polite way to say that, but who cares? We are long past the time for politeness regarding the derelictions of our leadership class when it came to Covid-19. The American public has every reason to be angry. And the small, maligned group of scientists, journalists, and political figures who challenged the wisdom of America’s designated Covid experts deserves an apology. . . . In the absence of hard data, a little overreach on the part of experts might have been forgivable, at least at first. As the pandemic ground on, however, scientists started learning more about the disease, including insights that could help slow transmission and that undermined the case for rigid lockdowns. But the Covid gatekeepers mostly ignored any data that challenged their initial recommendations. They never admitted a mistake and rarely changed course on policy. And when it came to the mystery of Covid’s origin, the scientific community instantly closed ranks. The idea that a bat-related coronavirus might have emerged from a Wuhan China lab devoted to studying bat-related coronaviruses was deemed a far-out right-wing fantasy. In other words, our public health officials, abetted by a politicized media, manufactured an airtight consensus on both Covid science and policy. This consensus was largely immune to scientific evidence or concerns about the real-world impacts of draconian policies.” Plus: “It takes a lot to shock me, but, after following the lab-leak debate for four years, I continue to be stunned by the duplicity of Anthony Fauci and other leading health officials on this issue. I’ve written column after column about how Fauci and his nominal boss, National Institutes of Health head Francis Collins, joined several key virus researchers in scrambling to distract Congress, the press, and the public from questions about their long-standing links to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Indeed, long before most American conservatives had even heard the term ‘lab leak,’ Fauci was denouncing the idea as a nutty conspiracy theory. Today we know there was a conspiracy. But it had nothing to do with a few dissident scientists and journalists asking questions about the origin of the virus. The conspiracy was orchestrated by Fauci and his closest aides. Thanks to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and other reporting, we can now see how Fauci strong-armed his fellow scientists to embrace a false consensus on the lab leak. (According to emails later released, even some of the scientists whom Fauci pushed to write the famous 2020 ‘Proximal Origin’ article—which claimed to disprove the lab-leak hypothesis—had doubts about their own paper’s conclusions.) Fauci and his team went on to conceal public records, bamboozle reporters, mislead Congress, and lean on social-media outlets to suppress inconvenient stories—all to cover up their possible complicity in the creation of Covid.” https://www.commentary.org/articles/james-meigs/fauci-covid-conspiracy/ And none of them has been prosecuted, or even tarred and feathered. Edited June 19 by B-Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 16 minutes ago, B-Man said: JIM MEIGS: The Fauci Covid Conspiracy. “We told you so. There’s probably a more polite way to say that, but who cares? We are long past the time for politeness regarding the derelictions of our leadership class when it came to Covid-19. The American public has every reason to be angry. And the small, maligned group of scientists, journalists, and political figures who challenged the wisdom of America’s designated Covid experts deserves an apology. . . . In the absence of hard data, a little overreach on the part of experts might have been forgivable, at least at first. As the pandemic ground on, however, scientists started learning more about the disease, including insights that could help slow transmission and that undermined the case for rigid lockdowns. But the Covid gatekeepers mostly ignored any data that challenged their initial recommendations. They never admitted a mistake and rarely changed course on policy. And when it came to the mystery of Covid’s origin, the scientific community instantly closed ranks. The idea that a bat-related coronavirus might have emerged from a Wuhan China lab devoted to studying bat-related coronaviruses was deemed a far-out right-wing fantasy. In other words, our public health officials, abetted by a politicized media, manufactured an airtight consensus on both Covid science and policy. This consensus was largely immune to scientific evidence or concerns about the real-world impacts of draconian policies.” Plus: “It takes a lot to shock me, but, after following the lab-leak debate for four years, I continue to be stunned by the duplicity of Anthony Fauci and other leading health officials on this issue. I’ve written column after column about how Fauci and his nominal boss, National Institutes of Health head Francis Collins, joined several key virus researchers in scrambling to distract Congress, the press, and the public from questions about their long-standing links to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Indeed, long before most American conservatives had even heard the term ‘lab leak,’ Fauci was denouncing the idea as a nutty conspiracy theory. Today we know there was a conspiracy. But it had nothing to do with a few dissident scientists and journalists asking questions about the origin of the virus. The conspiracy was orchestrated by Fauci and his closest aides. Thanks to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and other reporting, we can now see how Fauci strong-armed his fellow scientists to embrace a false consensus on the lab leak. (According to emails later released, even some of the scientists whom Fauci pushed to write the famous 2020 ‘Proximal Origin’ article—which claimed to disprove the lab-leak hypothesis—had doubts about their own paper’s conclusions.) Fauci and his team went on to conceal public records, bamboozle reporters, mislead Congress, and lean on social-media outlets to suppress inconvenient stories—all to cover up their possible complicity in the creation of Covid.” https://www.commentary.org/articles/james-meigs/fauci-covid-conspiracy/ And none of them has been prosecuted, or even tarred and feathered. You guys always need a scapegoat/villain to rail against. Fauci and Ray Epps are top of the list right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 21 minutes ago, B-Man said: JIM MEIGS: The Fauci Covid Conspiracy. “We told you so. There’s probably a more polite way to say that, but who cares? We are long past the time for politeness regarding the derelictions of our leadership class when it came to Covid-19. The American public has every reason to be angry. And the small, maligned group of scientists, journalists, and political figures who challenged the wisdom of America’s designated Covid experts deserves an apology. . . . In the absence of hard data, a little overreach on the part of experts might have been forgivable, at least at first. As the pandemic ground on, however, scientists started learning more about the disease, including insights that could help slow transmission and that undermined the case for rigid lockdowns. But the Covid gatekeepers mostly ignored any data that challenged their initial recommendations. They never admitted a mistake and rarely changed course on policy. And when it came to the mystery of Covid’s origin, the scientific community instantly closed ranks. The idea that a bat-related coronavirus might have emerged from a Wuhan China lab devoted to studying bat-related coronaviruses was deemed a far-out right-wing fantasy. In other words, our public health officials, abetted by a politicized media, manufactured an airtight consensus on both Covid science and policy. This consensus was largely immune to scientific evidence or concerns about the real-world impacts of draconian policies.” Plus: “It takes a lot to shock me, but, after following the lab-leak debate for four years, I continue to be stunned by the duplicity of Anthony Fauci and other leading health officials on this issue. I’ve written column after column about how Fauci and his nominal boss, National Institutes of Health head Francis Collins, joined several key virus researchers in scrambling to distract Congress, the press, and the public from questions about their long-standing links to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Indeed, long before most American conservatives had even heard the term ‘lab leak,’ Fauci was denouncing the idea as a nutty conspiracy theory. Today we know there was a conspiracy. But it had nothing to do with a few dissident scientists and journalists asking questions about the origin of the virus. The conspiracy was orchestrated by Fauci and his closest aides. Thanks to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and other reporting, we can now see how Fauci strong-armed his fellow scientists to embrace a false consensus on the lab leak. (According to emails later released, even some of the scientists whom Fauci pushed to write the famous 2020 ‘Proximal Origin’ article—which claimed to disprove the lab-leak hypothesis—had doubts about their own paper’s conclusions.) Fauci and his team went on to conceal public records, bamboozle reporters, mislead Congress, and lean on social-media outlets to suppress inconvenient stories—all to cover up their possible complicity in the creation of Covid.” https://www.commentary.org/articles/james-meigs/fauci-covid-conspiracy/ And none of them has been prosecuted, or even tarred and feathered. I would be in favor of tarred and feathered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: You guys always need a scapegoat/villain to rail against. Fauci and Ray Epps are top of the list right now. What a shallow answer. (though not unexpected) The government's reaction to the Covid outbreak devasted our country and its people. But your response brings it all back to "looking for scapegoats" Weak. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 12 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Not a molecular biologist but neither is anyone posting here. So let's dumb it down. Which makes more sense: 1) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab was caused by a leak in said lab. 2) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab occurred naturally. Total coincidence that the virus was being studied in a nearby lab. Until proven otherwise, I'll go with number 1. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Steve O said: So let's dumb it down. Which makes more sense: 1) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab was caused by a leak in said lab. 2) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab occurred naturally. Total coincidence that the virus was being studied in a nearby lab. Until proven otherwise, I'll go with number 1. I can see this logic but this is about science, wherever the virus originated. I believe in the scientific method. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I can see this logic but this is about science, wherever the virus originated. I believe in the scientific method. Is it still the scientific method when the lead scientists actively work to suppress dissent? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I can see this logic but this is about science, wherever the virus originated. I believe in the scientific method. So you're saying science is somehow illogical now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, wnyguy said: So you're saying science is somehow illogical now? No. I'm saying let science figure it out. The consensus won't be "fixed". There are very opinionated, vocal and yes, egotistical scientists. There is vigorous debate on the question which is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: No. I'm saying let science figure it out. The consensus won't be "fixed". There are very opinionated, vocal and yes, egotistical scientists. There is vigorous debate on the question which is good. But logic would tell us the virus leaked from the very lab that it was being engineered from, however the "science" is telling us it was naturally spawned in the same location as the lab that was engineering it. Hmmm, that is a tough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 3 minutes ago, wnyguy said: But logic would tell us the virus leaked from the very lab that it was being engineered from, however the "science" is telling us it was naturally spawned in the same location as the lab that was engineering it. Hmmm, that is a tough one. Science is attempting to determine natural or synthetic mutation. The person who nails it down will almost certainly win the Nobel prize. That's kinda a big deal to academics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: You guys always need a scapegoat/villain to rail against. Fauci and Ray Epps are top of the list right now. But you said you disagreed with B-Man’s post, but never specified what it was, in your response, that you disagreed with… Was it just an emotional reaction to defend Fauci, or did you actually have info that contradicted the info that was derived from Fauci’s own emails? I ask, not to be a pain…But one of the things I’m noticing in the people who defend Fauci, is they completely disregard the info in his emails, simply because they don’t want to be seen aligning with the political Right on the issue… But the sad part is- it shouldn’t be political, and Fauci has history of covering up stuff, dating back to the AIDS epidemic…👍 Edited June 19 by JaCrispy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, Steve O said: So let's dumb it down. Which makes more sense: 1) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab was caused by a leak in said lab. 2) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab occurred naturally. Total coincidence that the virus was being studied in a nearby lab. Until proven otherwise, I'll go with number 1. 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I can see this logic but this is about science, wherever the virus originated. I believe in the scientific method. Honestly Joe, I think the fact that so called science would put forth number 2 even being a possibility shows how little respect these scientists and politicians have for our intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: You guys always need a scapegoat/villain to rail against. Fauci and Ray Epps are top of the list right now. This is (unintentionally, on your part) hilarious and hypocritical. You realize what party you belong to, right? 1 hour ago, wnyguy said: But logic would tell us the virus leaked from the very lab that it was being engineered from, however the "science" is telling us it was naturally spawned in the same location as the lab that was engineering it. Hmmm, that is a tough one. Like I said, as soon as Trump said it leaked from the lab, they automatically dismissed it. Now there may some element of covering-for-Fauci to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 3 hours ago, Steve O said: So let's dumb it down. Which makes more sense: 1) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab was caused by a leak in said lab. 2) A pandemic that originated in a town where the virus that caused the pandemic was being studied in a lab occurred naturally. Total coincidence that the virus was being studied in a nearby lab. Until proven otherwise, I'll go with number 1. What happens when you don't find the virus in the lab but do find it in the wet market? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, Scraps said: What happens when you don't find the virus in the lab but do find it in the wet market? You're not finding either. The former was wiped clean 4-1/2 years and the latter likely never existed...except if it came there from the lab. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 4 hours ago, Steve O said: Honestly Joe, I think the fact that so called science would put forth number 2 even being a possibility shows how little respect these scientists and politicians have for our intelligence. Let it play out. The Chinese are never going to admit if there was an actual lab leak. The only way to find out is to let the science play out but we may never know the answer. Moderate confidence may be the best we can do but I'm hopeful we can do better. This is a global endeavor involving the world's best. Given the diversity, openness and skepticism of the scientific community, I don't see a conspiracy to hide the truth happening. Hopefully it will lead to better results for the next pandemic. And there will be one ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 25 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I don't see a conspiracy to hide the truth happening. Good god man. What do you call the immediate suppression of information regarding the possibility of a lab leak in 20-21? Cotton was smeared left and right over it. “Reliable” mainstream media called the possibility of a lab leak “a debunked conspiracy theory”. People were called racists for thinking it. Now the big question - why was that? What was to be gained? Scraps opines that the “experts” didn’t want to be viewed as racist. 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽🤦🏽♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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