Bills interested in CB Steven Nelson

[RussellDopeland]

10 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Wasn't his grandfather the 'Sea Hunt' guy? 🤔

No, the "Sea Hunt" guy was an actor named Horatio Nelson. Nelson's father wrestled under the name "Stone Cold" Steve Nelson (not to be confused with "The 6 Million Dollar Man" character Steve Austin, from Nelson,Texas.)

[K-9]

21 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Wasn't his grandfather the 'Sea Hunt' guy? 🤔

[Don Otreply]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Looks like I choose the wrong day to stop sniffling glue...

Edited May 12, 2021 by Don Otreply

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah we are.....and that’s one of our problems imo.  We need corners that can man up and play zone as opposed to corners that can play zone but can’t hold up in man

 

I disagree. We are a zone defense, we will stay a zone defense. Having a guy who can play a bit of a man would help, for sure, it is why I was in favour of Greg Newsome and would even have considered Tyson Campbell in the draft but I think prioritising a guy for his man coverage skills when we are overwhelmingly going to be in zone would be the wrong way to go. Hence I was completely against a guy like Asante Samuel who is a man corner who struggles in zone. Nelson played primarily as a man corner in Bob Sutton's defense in KC but he has played both in Pitt. I think he makes a fair amount of sense as a guy who can play zone but is definitely more comfortable in man than, for example Levi Wallace, who is a strictly zone only corner. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I dislike "reports" like this. They mean absolutely nothing. Replace the word "source" with "agent" almost every time. 

 

Teams calling a players agent doesn't mean there is any interest in that player either. 

[jwhit34]

One of the better jazz vibe players...signing him would be music to Bills fans' ears.

 

[H2o]

Soooooo......... The day we find out the Bills are playing the Steelers Week 1 is the day our interest is made known in a former Steelers CB? Yes, Brandon Beane

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

35 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Sure looks like there's Mandelbaum in that family tree.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. We are a zone defense, we will stay a zone defense. Having a guy who can play a bit of a man would help, for sure, it is why I was in favour of Greg Newsome and would even have considered Tyson Campbell in the draft but I think prioritising a guy for his man coverage skills when we are overwhelmingly going to be in zone would be the wrong way to go. Hence I was completely against a guy like Asante Samuel who is a man corner who struggles in zone. Nelson played primarily as a man corner in Bob Sutton's defense in KC but he has played both in Pitt. I think he makes a fair amount of sense as a guy who can play zone but is definitely more comfortable in man than, for example Levi Wallace, who is a strictly zone only corner. 

you disagree with what exactly?   That we should have corners that can play both zone and man?  That we should play more man?  
 

If there was one thing that I learned watching the Bills last season, it’s that if you can only excel in one aspect of offense or defense, come playoff time, the opposing coaches will find a way to beat that one aspect you excel in.  
 

last year, we couldn’t run the ball effectively when we had to run the ball effectively.  So much so, that we just abandoned the run entirely at times.  The chiefs said **** it, they can’t run, we’re going to focus all of our attention on stopping the pass. 
 

when we played the chiefs the first time around, we tried to take away their pass entirely and gave them the run.  Problem for us, the chiefs were actually able to run.  In the AFCCG, we played zone D the entire first half and we didn’t have a defender near one completed pass.  2nd half, we tried some man.....and that worked out even worse.  It didn’t work because Levi has little to no man cover ability.  Everyone knows it and it forces us to play zone or shade the entire defense to Levi’s side if we play man.  
 

we need corners than are scheme versatile.  Starting a CB that can’t play man is a terrible position to be in, regardless of if we play predominantly zone.  The opposition assumes that we are playing zone, because if they see levi in man, they’ll attack him. While Zone is mcDs specialty, opposing play callers know where to go with the ball against his zone.  
 

Being able to be more multidimensional on D should be one of our priorities.  I feel starting Levi handcuffs McD/Frazier in their play calling because he’s such a liability in man.  It’s tough to stop a SB offense when they know that you’re playing cover 3 or 4 on every play.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

you disagree with what exactly?   That we should have corners that can play both zone and man?  That we should play more man?  
 

If there was one thing that I learned watching the Bills last season, it’s that if you can only excel in one aspect of offense or defense, come playoff time, the opposing coaches will find a way to beat that one aspect you excel in.  
 

last year, we couldn’t run the ball effectively when we had to run the ball effectively.  So much so, that we just abandoned the run entirely at times.  The chiefs said **** it, they can’t run, we’re going to focus all of our attention on stopping the pass. 
 

when we played the chiefs the first time around, we tried to take away their pass entirely and gave them the run.  Problem for us, the chiefs were actually able to run.  In the AFCCG, we played zone D the entire first half and we didn’t have a defender near one completed pass.  2nd half, we tried some man.....and that worked out even worse.  It didn’t work because Levi has little to no man cover ability.  Everyone knows it and it forces us to play zone or shade the entire defense to Levi’s side if we play man.  
 

we need corners than are scheme versatile.  Starting a CB that can’t play man is a terrible position to be in, regardless of if we play predominantly zone.  The opposition assumes that we are playing zone, because if they see levi in man, they’ll attack him. While Zone is mcDs specialty, opposing play callers know where to go with the ball against his zone.  
 

Being able to be more multidimensional on D should be one of our priorities.  I feel starting Levi handcuffs McD/Frazier in their play calling because he’s such a liability in man.  It’s tough to stop a SB offense when they know that you’re playing cover 3 or 4 on every play.

 

I disagree that they should approach adding corners by asking the man question first. You framed it as needing corners who can "man up and play zone" I think they need corners who are zone guys who can play some man (which is how I'd describe Tre). But the first question should always be how are they going to fare in the defense we are going to play over 80% of the time. Getting a guy who is a man corner but is average to below average in zone is not going to be a lot of use. I think Nelson makes sense because as a guy to compete with Levi he does have a bit more scheme flex, but he'd have to win the job first. The main thing they need to do to have a better shot against KC is get better play in the trenches on both sides of the ball. 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Sure looks like there's Mandelbaum in that family tree.

 

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree that they should approach adding corners by asking the man question first. You framed it as needing corners who can "man up and play zone" I think they need corners who are zone guys who can play some man (which is how I'd describe Tre). But the first question should always be how are they going to fare in the defense we are going to play over 80% of the time. Getting a guy who is a man corner but is average to below average in zone is not going to be a lot of use. I think Nelson makes sense because as a guy to compete with Levi he does have a bit more scheme flex, but he'd have to win the job first. The main thing they need to do to have a better shot against KC is get better play in the trenches on both sides of the ball. 

Oh.  My point was, we need corners that can play both zone and man.  It looked to me, like McD/frazier didn’t trust Levi at all, hence our soft cushion D what allowed the WRs to run wide open until they caught the ball.  We need a corner or two that can play on top of the WRs without constant fear of getting beat, regardless of the fact that we play mostly zone.  We can currently play off coverage.....and our opponents know that.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oh.  My point was, we need corners that can play both zone and man.  It looked to me, like McD/frazier didn’t trust Levi at all, hence our soft cushion D what allowed the WRs to run wide open until they caught the ball.  We need a corner or two that can play on top of the WRs without constant fear of getting beat, regardless of the fact that we play mostly zone.  We can currently play off coverage.....and our opponents know that.

 

It is definitely intentional that Levi plays off pretty much the whole time. The Bills scheme around his limitations and there is always an opportunity for a short completion on his side. That is what they ask him to do, keep it all infront of him, rally and tackle and for the most part he does it well. The Bills want to make every offense go 11 or 12 plays to score and they calculate most will make a mistake somewhere and they will get them off the field if they just avoid the big play. The problem KC pose is they can hit the big play even when that is what you are trying to take away. The question is how much does that make it worth being a bit more boom or bust to play more aggressive coverage? I think it comes back to @Buffalo716's post yesterday. The Bills coach and play what they know and what they believe in. They need to add some wrinkles to that but the second half of the AFCCG confirmed to me that more radical changes to what they are is not the way to go. If they can sprinkle just a little man in against a KC as a different look, fine, I'm all for it. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

I'm surprised this wasn't posted yesterday.  You guys are slipping! 

 

Your take on Kenny Mayne stunned everyone...

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is definitely intentional that Levi plays off pretty much the whole time. The Bills scheme around his limitations and there is always an opportunity for a short completion on his side. That is what they ask him to do, keep it all infront of him, rally and tackle and for the most part he does it well. The Bills want to make every offense go 11 or 12 plays to score and they calculate most will make a mistake somewhere and they will get them off the field if they just avoid the big play. The problem KC pose is they can hit the big play even when that is what you are trying to take away. The question is how much does that make it worth being a bit more boom or bust to play more aggressive coverage? I think it comes back to @Buffalo716's post yesterday. The Bills coach and play what they know and what they believe in. They need to add some wrinkles to that but the second half of the AFCCG confirmed to me that more radical changes to what they are is not the way to go. If they can sprinkle just a little man in against a KC as a different look, fine, I'm all for it. 

I hear ya.  The bolded is my problem with Levi.  We should be making every effort to add a cb2 that doesn’t have to be schemed around. Our cb2 has one duty in this scheme.  Don’t get beat deep.  Levi doesn’t....because he’s always playing off and giving the opposition free yards.  In 2 games vs the chiefs last year, our defense literally gave the chiefs the first 10 yards to work with.  And when we tried to take away the underneath, they scorched us. Our coverage isn’t up to par.  Hopefully an improved pass rush can be the difference. It’s a lot to ask though 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, NewEra said:

I hear ya.  The bolded is my problem with Levi.  We should be making every effort to add a cb2 that doesn’t have to be schemed around. Our cb2 has one duty in this scheme.  Don’t get beat deep.  Levi doesn’t....because he’s always playing off and giving the opposition free yards.  In 2 games vs the chiefs last year, our defense literally gave the chiefs the first 10 yards to work with.  And when we tried to take away the underneath, they scorched us. Our coverage isn’t up to par.  Hopefully an improved pass rush can be the difference. It’s a lot to ask though 

 

Ideal world - I agree. The draft just didn't fall there for us. Personally beyond the guys who didn't get to #30 I didn't think it was the best corner class. But agree it remains an area that is upgradeable. A guy like Nelson coming and competing might allow us to platoon Levi as we did a bit with Kevin Johnson at the end of 2019, but at this stage of dust settle FAs it is always going to be relatively slim pickings. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

 

 

Bills should be first in that list of teams Jeremy 😋

 

 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ideal world - I agree. The draft just didn't fall there for us. Personally beyond the guys who didn't get to #30 I didn't think it was the best corner class. But agree it remains an area that is upgradeable. A guy like Nelson coming and competing might allow us to platoon Levi as we did a bit with Kevin Johnson at the end of 2019, but at this stage of dust settle FAs it is always going to be relatively slim pickings. 

Yeah, the Cbs didn’t fall according in the draft.   I would’ve been ok taking Campbell over Rousseau, but I was fine with the draft.  
 

I feel that Nelson is a clear upgrade over Levi and come playoff time, he will be starting and getting the lions share of the cb2 reps.  

 

 I don’t think we’re going to win the SB with Levi as our cb2 and I hope Dane jackson can beat him out and stay healthy.  I hope Beane will bring someone in to challenge for the spot.  Nelson would be ideal considering the other options

[PonyBoy]

2 hours ago, RussellDopeland said:

No, the "Sea Hunt" guy was an actor named Horatio Nelson. Nelson's father wrestled under the name "Stone Cold" Steve Nelson (not to be confused with "The 6 Million Dollar Man" character Steve Austin, from Nelson,Texas.)

Nor to be confused with former Buffalo Bill Shane Nelson.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 minutes ago, PonyBoy said:

Nor to be confused with former Buffalo Bill Shane Nelson.

Shane Brother Shane!  Played for the Bills and  was a DJ on Buffalo am radio!