FireChans Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/17/2021 at 11:55 PM, Justice said: Seriously guys. Answer the question. Why ignore it? Do you feel like you’ll be betraying Israel? Would you feel like a terrorist supporter? If your homeland was conquered and occupied what would you do??? Expand Fight back. If I fought back, I'd also probably risking my countrymen's lives to retribution. You can't do step 1 and not expect step 2. You really can't. I won't pretend to fully understand the intricacies of this conflict. There's centuries of enmity between these two groups and that will take likely centuries to overcome. But as long as one group keeps fighting, the other will fight back. And peaceful civilians will continue to die. On 5/18/2021 at 12:34 AM, Justice said: Gotta suspend disbelief in that equation. Besides. There are no native Americans left. And that’s the point. That’s what the Palestinians are trying to prevent. Expand Would there be more Native Americans left if they didn't fight to the last against a superior opponent? On 5/18/2021 at 12:32 AM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I get you, but that land has gone back and forth for millenniums... and native Americans aren’t lobbing rockets into the suburbs. Expand And if they were, we would all expect the American government to respond in kind.
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) On 5/18/2021 at 12:34 AM, Justice said: Gotta suspend disbelief in that equation. Besides. There are no native Americans left. And that’s the point. That’s what the Palestinians are trying to prevent. Expand Come again? Can't you make the same argument for the Jews? Exiled from most Arab countries and attempted extermination out of Europe? The more anti semitism rises such as in France, the more Jews move to Europe. Edited May 18, 2021 by meazza
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 12:37 AM, Niagara Bill said: Like I said their religious leaders, schools and family teach this hate. Money fuels it. Ask the Irish. Expand I don’t think anybody needs to be taught to hate their oppressors. Kind of happens naturally you know.
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:22 AM, Justice said: I don’t think anybody needs to be taught to hate their oppressors. Kind of happens naturally you know. Expand So the people singing kill the Jews and rape their daughters in London driving in luxury cars who are probably not even Palestinian but Arab are fighting their oppresors?
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) On 5/18/2021 at 1:24 AM, meazza said: So the people singing kill the Jews and rape their daughters in London driving in luxury cars who are probably not even Palestinian but Arab are fighting their oppresors? Expand That’s on both sides. Why do you insist on only pointing out one? i realize your goal is to vilify one group but when I show you Jews doing the same thing what will you say then? Will your point still remain? Edited May 18, 2021 by Justice 1
FireChans Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:22 AM, Justice said: I don’t think anybody needs to be taught to hate their oppressors. Kind of happens naturally you know. Expand If the Native Americans started launching rockets at NYC, what would the American government do?
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:26 AM, Justice said: That’s on both sides. Why do you insist on only pointing out one? Expand There is definitely rIght wing Israeli's that were singing "Kill the Arabs" in Jerusalem two weeks ago and I'm not going to deny that but this hate during the rallys were world wide. That being said, with all the hate Jews have received and the fact that they were practically exiled from many countries in the Middle East, why wouldn't they move to Israel?
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:27 AM, FireChans said: If the Native Americans started launching rockets at NYC, what would the American government do? Expand Fight back. When and where have I condemned Israel for fighting back? Show me. This ain’t the gotcha moment you think it is. On 5/18/2021 at 1:30 AM, meazza said: There is definitely rIght wing Israeli's that were singing "Kill the Arabs" in Jerusalem two weeks ago and I'm not going to deny that but this hate during the rallys were world wide. That being said, with all the hate Jews have received and the fact that they were practically exiled from many countries in the Middle East, why wouldn't they move to Israel? Expand And here it comes again. Show me where I said they don’t belong in Israel. I’ll wait.
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 Jews belong in Israel. Sons of Abraham belong there. Ismail (the way Muslims spell it) and Isaac were Muslims and Jews. I’ll never argue with that. Jesus was from there so Christians be kind there as well. Just for the record.
FireChans Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:31 AM, Justice said: Fight back. When and where have I condemned Israel for fighting back? Show me. This ain’t the gotcha moment you think it is. And here it comes again. Show me where I said they don’t belong in Israel. I’ll wait. Expand It's not supposed to be a gotcha. It's an honest question and I appreciate you answering it. What I will ask is do you think the Palestinian tactic of launching rockets at Israel is working?
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:31 AM, Justice said: Fight back. When and where have I condemned Israel for fighting back? Show me. This ain’t the gotcha moment you think it is. And here it comes again. Show me where I said they don’t belong in Israel. I’ll wait. Expand I never said you did, I said that the narrative is that there are many that don't believe Israel has a right to exist at all. I will say one thing, I am pro-palestinian as much as I can be. It breaks my heart to see what is happening to Gazans but i disagree with most Palestinian activists about the cause. I think their misery lies at the feet of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Iran. Israel's government just takes advantage to keep the status quo. If you want to follow an interesting Israeli who is a legimitate peace activist, follow Rudy Rochman. If more people like him spread the word, there is a greater chance for peace.
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:37 AM, FireChans said: It's not supposed to be a gotcha. It's an honest question and I appreciate you answering it. What I will ask is do you think the Palestinian tactic of launching rockets at Israel is working? Expand Lmao. Working? Sure. It’s working... at getting themselves killed! Is it working? No. It hasn’t and it never has and it never will. It’s suicide and it’s insanity. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. The world doesn’t care about you. Nobody is going to help you. But hey, I live here all cozy and such in Miami, FL. Who am I to say how one should resist or not.
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:37 AM, FireChans said: It's not supposed to be a gotcha. It's an honest question and I appreciate you answering it. What I will ask is do you think the Palestinian tactic of launching rockets at Israel is working? Expand It's a terrible tactic that Hamas uses to get support from the Palestinians in the West Bank. The Palestinians in the West Bank are dissatisfied with Fatah and Hamas is trying to show them that they are able to hurt Israel. On 5/18/2021 at 1:40 AM, Justice said: Lmao. Working? Sure. It’s working... at getting themselves killed! Is it working? No. It hasn’t and it never has and it never will. It’s suicide and it’s insanity. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. The world doesn’t care about you. Nobody is going to help you. But hey, I live here all cozy and such in Miami, FL. Who am I to say how one should resist or not. Expand Yes it is working. As I told you earlier, Abbas cancelled the elections in the WB because he knew that he would lose to Hamas. His excuse was that he wouldn't hold elections if Israel wouldn't allow East Jerusalem residents to vote. Guess what Israel did? If Hamas takes control of the WB, it will be a disaster.
FireChans Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:40 AM, Justice said: Lmao. Working? Sure. It’s working... at getting themselves killed! Is it working? No. It hasn’t and it never has and it never will. It’s suicide and it’s insanity. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. The world doesn’t care about you. Nobody is going to help you. But hey, I live here all cozy and such in Miami, FL. Who am I to say how one should resist or not. Expand While I understand this sentiment, it's the same sentiment that is purported to overlooking Israel's transgressions. You can't shrug your shoulders at one side and not the other, you know?
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:39 AM, meazza said: I never said you did, I said that the narrative is that there are many that don't believe Israel has a right to exist at all. I will say one thing, I am pro-palestinian as much as I can be. It breaks my heart to see what is happening to Gazans but i disagree with most Palestinian activists about the cause. I think their misery lies at the feet of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Iran. Israel's government just takes advantage to keep the status quo. If you want to follow an interesting Israeli who is a legimitate peace activist, follow Rudy Rochman. If more people like him spread the word, there is a greater chance for peace. Expand Sure it’s easy to place blame on Hamas but what about the WB? What have they done? Israeli settlers are killing people there. My family is afraid to leave their homes. All I know is it’s been peaceful until Trump ok’d the move of the embassy to Jerusalem. There was some violence after that. And now what happened at al-aqsa and the “evictions” led to this recent wave of violence. In both instances violence was incited. On 5/18/2021 at 1:41 AM, meazza said: It's a terrible tactic that Hamas uses to get support from the Palestinians in the West Bank. The Palestinians in the West Bank are dissatisfied with Fatah and Hamas is trying to show them that they are able to hurt Israel. Yes it is working. As I told you earlier, Abbas cancelled the elections in the WB because he knew that he would lose to Hamas. His excuse was that he wouldn't hold elections if Israel wouldn't allow East Jerusalem residents to vote. Guess what Israel did? If Hamas takes control of the WB, it will be a disaster. Expand I don’t know about all that. It’s no slam dunk Hamas wins in the WB. I do know Netanyahu had a lot of motivation to attack Gaza because of his political situation though. Who’s helping who here? On 5/18/2021 at 1:45 AM, FireChans said: While I understand this sentiment, it's the same sentiment that is purported to overlooking Israel's transgressions. You can't shrug your shoulders at one side and not the other, you know? Expand But I’m not.
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:48 AM, Justice said: Sure it’s easy to place blame on Hamas but what about the WB? What have they done? Israeli settlers are killing people there. My family is afraid to leave their homes. All I know is it’s been peaceful until Trump ok’d the move of the embassy to Jerusalem. There was some violence after that. And now what happened at al-aqsa and the “evictions” led to this recent wave of violence. In both instances violence was incited. Expand From what I understand at Al-Asqa, there were Palestinians that were throwing rocks at Jews praying at the Wailing Wall. The police intervened and unfortunately many who were not involved in this incident were victims of police aggression. This is similar to a few years ago where some Palestinians stabbed some people at the entrance of the mosque, the Israeli's put metal detectors and ***** hit the fan. Conveniently during Ramadan again. This is my understanding of the story. Also, with regards to violence, it hasn't only been in the WB. Look at Lod and Acre and it's been both sides but beyond those incidents, there have been several of Arabs and Jews coming together to denounce the violence. I think that should be the focus.
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:54 AM, meazza said: From what I understand at Al-Asqa, there were Palestinians that were throwing rocks at Jews praying at the Wailing Wall. The police intervened and unfortunately many who were not involved in this incident were victims of police aggression. This is similar to a few years ago where some Palestinians stabbed some people at the entrance of the mosque, the Israeli's put metal detectors and ***** hit the fan. Conveniently during Ramadan again. This is my understanding of the story. Also, with regards to violence, it hasn't only been in the WB. Look at Lod and Acre and it's been both sides but beyond those incidents, there have been several of Arabs and Jews coming together to denounce the violence. I think that should be the focus. Expand collective punishment is my biggest problem with them. I’d love to see more of that. They need to come together.
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:48 AM, Justice said: Sure it’s easy to place blame on Hamas but what about the WB? What have they done? Israeli settlers are killing people there. My family is afraid to leave their homes. All I know is it’s been peaceful until Trump ok’d the move of the embassy to Jerusalem. There was some violence after that. And now what happened at al-aqsa and the “evictions” led to this recent wave of violence. In both instances violence was incited. I don’t know about all that. It’s no slam dunk Hamas wins in the WB. I do know Netanyahu had a lot of motivation to attack Gaza because of his political situation though. Who’s helping who here? But I’m not. Expand https://www.jns.org/abbas-signals-postponement-of-palestinian-elections-provoking-rival-hamas/ WIth regards to Netanyahu, I already said earlier in my posts that I believe that the violence from Hamas gives him greater leverage. I don't like Netanyahu. On 5/18/2021 at 1:58 AM, Justice said: collective punishment is my biggest problem with them. I’d love to see more of that. They need to come together. Expand But how do you handle people throwing rocks at others praying? Israeli police generally doesn't enter the site. It is controlled by the Waqf (sp?). Again, these are all situations where they are being provoked into reacting.
Justice Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 2:00 AM, meazza said: https://www.jns.org/abbas-signals-postponement-of-palestinian-elections-provoking-rival-hamas/ WIth regards to Netanyahu, I already said earlier in my posts that I believe that the violence from Hamas gives him greater leverage. I don't like Netanyahu. But how do you handle people throwing rocks at others praying? Israeli police generally doesn't enter the site. It is controlled by the Waqf (sp?). Again, these are all situations where they are being provoked into reacting. Expand I don’t condone that kind of behavior but trust me when I tell you just the mere presence of the soldiers should’ve stopped the rock throwing.
Niagara Bill Posted May 18, 2021 Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 1:22 AM, Justice said: I don’t think anybody needs to be taught to hate their oppressors. Kind of happens naturally you know. Expand So who historically been the oppressor here? Both claim that title. There is always someone with money and making money fueling the fire, telling people what to think, not allowing people to stop hating. Who in Ireland was the oppressor, protestants or catholics. Money fueled the flames. It is always money and religion behind it. Few people who build and keep the fire burning.
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