Doc Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No. I wasn’t astonished. I was skeptical from the start. And as soon as I found out the provenance of that Steele memo (Dem connected law firm commissioned investigative group which then retained Steele) I discounted everything in it. So, knowing what we know now about these preposterous election fraud claims, do YOU agree that Biden was fairly elected? No, I think that it was the least secure election in modern history. But it's over and all we can do is change the laws (back) to prevent that from happening again. 1 2
The Frankish Reich Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Doc said: No, I think that it was the least secure election in modern history. But it's over and all we can do is change the laws (back) to prevent that from happening again. So do you believe that Dominion voting machines were rigged/hacked?
Doc Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: So do you believe that Dominion voting machines were rigged/hacked? No. 2
BillsFanNC Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 46 minutes ago, Doc said: No, I think that it was the least secure election in modern history. But it's over and all we can do is change the laws (back) to prevent that from happening again. When everyone in unison on the left and media demanded within a few WEEKS of the election that an election carried out with the most mail in ballots cast in history was the most secure election in US history, it was then that I knew for certain that major shenanigans went down. When they're all in lockstep telling you that you must believe that what they're telling you is true and do not dare ask questions, it is then that you can be certain that the opposite of what they're demanding that you believe is the truth. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 52 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: When everyone in unison on the left and media demanded within a few WEEKS of the election that an election carried out with the most mail in ballots cast in history was the most secure election in US history, it was then that I knew for certain that major shenanigans went down. When they're all in lockstep telling you that you must believe that what they're telling you is true and do not dare ask questions, it is then that you can be certain that the opposite of what they're demanding that you believe is the truth. uh huh... https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-changes-tune-on-mail-in-voting-ballot-collection-fa7193be
Doc Posted March 8, 2023 Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: When everyone in unison on the left and media demanded within a few WEEKS of the election that an election carried out with the most mail in ballots cast in history was the most secure election in US history, it was then that I knew for certain that major shenanigans went down. When they're all in lockstep telling you that you must believe that what they're telling you is true and do not dare ask questions, it is then that you can be certain that the opposite of what they're demanding that you believe is the truth. Whereas in the past they were leery of mail-in ballots.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 A smaller lie: https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pence-2659607847/
Buffarukus Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 43 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: A smaller lie: https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pence-2659607847/ i have a question you claim to be 60 how is it you been alive so long and not see the democratic flip? did you even remember "i may not like what you say but i defend your right to say it" "not color of skin but content of character" " anti war peace of the hippies" "womens rights" aka knowing what a woman is to uphold them. ill stop there. serious question because believe it or not i still hold those values but you would call me right wing...and im much younger but see very clear the dems are completely different now. 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Buffarukus said: i have a question you claim to be 60 how is it you been alive so long and not see the democratic flip? did you even remember "i may not like what you say but i defend your right to say it" "not color of skin but content of character" " anti war peace of the hippies" "womens rights" aka knowing what a woman is to uphold them. ill stop there. serious question because believe it or not i still hold those values but you would call me right wing...and im much younger but see very clear the dems are completely different now. I was a Republican for many years, even before I could vote. Come from a long line of Republicans. It is not the party of my fathers or grandfathers now. Neither is the Democrat party. It's now closer to the Republican party, especially the culturally progressive wing, when I was young. That and years of work have increased my level of empathy for the poor and suffering. re the bolded statements, I agree with these statements. The hippies were right. Vietnam was based on lies and was a terribly wasteful and destructive war. If more women were in power, I think the world would be a better place because of their innate empathy and caring. The other two are self explanatory. Edited March 17, 2023 by redtail hawk
SoCal Deek Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: I was a Republican for many years. Come from a long line of Republicans. It is not the party of my fathers or grandfathers now. Neither is the Democrat party. It's now closer to the Republican party when I was young. That and years of work have increased my level of empathy for the poor and suffering. Thanks for the honesty Hawk. I’m not sure what “empathy for the poor and suffering” have to do with the modern Democratic Party though. It feels to me like the Party leaders left that behind many years ago. They’ve slowly evolved into what Jessie Jackson one time called the Rainbow Coalition. Economic status is a side gig at best. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Thanks for the honesty Hawk. I’m not sure what “empathy for the poor and suffering” have to do with the modern Democratic Party though. It feels to me like the Party leaders left that behind many years ago. They’ve slowly evolved into what Jessie Jackson one time called the Rainbow Coalition. Economic status is a side gig at best. Generally R's pass tax bills that benefit the wealthy. Send poor kids to war (yes, the D's have as well) and reject spending bills that support the poor. The D's are very far from perfect but closer to my definition of it, especially on these issues. And most are on the correct side or almost re healthcare. Given the massive concentration of wealth in the top 2-3 %, they also seek to redistribute some of that through taxation, which I also agree with. Edited March 17, 2023 by redtail hawk
SoCal Deek Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Generally R's pass tax bills that benefit the wealthy. Send poor kids to war (yes, the D's have as well) and reject spending bills that support the poor. The D's are very far from perfect but closer to my definition of it, especially on these issues. And most are on the correct side or almost re healthcare. Given the massive concentration of wealth in the top 2-3 %, they also seek to redistribute some of that through taxation, which I also agree with. All fair points. I obviously differ with you on the effectiveness of any of that. It’s simply not the role of the government to redistribute money. And by your own admission even after decades of trying to do just that, the gap continues to grow. On the subject of healthcare I’m much less entrenched. I’m not a healthcare voter, but before everyone jumps into that pool you better get ready for the obvious consequences. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: All fair points. I obviously differ with you on the effectiveness of any of that. It’s simply not the role of the government to redistribute money. And by your own admission even after decades of trying to do just that, the gap continues to grow. On the subject of healthcare I’m much less entrenched. I’m not a healthcare voter, but before everyone jumps into that pool you better get ready for the obvious consequences. I have relatives all over the world. Have been asked advice on health issues many times by them. I have some personal experience with the Canadian system (cutting edge eye surgery in Toronto as a kid). Recently witnessed the sophistication of the Australian system. Switzerland is the exception - the small sample of work I've seen is often bizarre. They are strange folk. Truly believe there are much better options for America than the for- profit one we have now. Also, we have a massive debt that I would argue the uber rich have successfully avoided their fair share of paying while reaping disproportional benefits. Edited March 17, 2023 by redtail hawk
SoCal Deek Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: I have relatives all over the world. Have been asked advice on health issues many times by them. I have some personal experience with the Canadian system (cutting edge eye surgery in Toronto as a kid). Recently witnessed the sophistication of the Australian system. Truly believe there are much better options for America than the for- profit one we have now. You’re clearly focused on the ‘for profit’ aspect. And I can tell that you consider that a dirty word. I don’t. Again, I’m not a healthcare voter. My consideration is less about the profit boogeyman and more about the universal aspect of it. In other words, if you have a service that literally everyone needs, is the private delivery model the most effective delivery model? The private model brings with it a ton of overhead and redundancy. Remember, you are NOT currently paying for healthcare. You are currently paying for health INSURANCE companies. The negative side is the inevitable governmental lethargy that comes with every public service. It’s an interesting debate. But…on the taxation side, I’m squarely in the flat tax camp.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You’re clearly focused on the ‘for profit’ aspect. And I can tell that you consider that a dirty word. I don’t. Again, I’m not a healthcare voter. My consideration is less about the profit boogeyman and more about the universal aspect of it. In other words, if you have a service that literally everyone needs, is the private delivery model the most effective delivery model? The private model brings with it a ton of overhead and redundancy. Remember, you are NOT currently paying for healthcare. You are currently paying for health INSURANCE companies. The negative side is the inevitable governmental lethargy that comes with every public service. It’s an interesting debate. But…on the taxation side, I’m squarely in the flat tax camp. I don't consider profit a dirty word. Profits are just fine especially if appropriate taxes are paid on them. It just doesn't fit well with medicine. Yes, you need to incentivize people to go through grueling years of school and training. You don't need to incentivize sharks that skim money from actual care. Edited March 17, 2023 by redtail hawk
SoCal Deek Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: I don't consider profit a dirty word. Profits are just fine especially if appropriate taxes are paid on them. It just doesn't fit well with medicine. Yes, you need to incentivize people to go through grueling years of school and training. You don't need to incentivize sharks that skim money from actual care. As a longtime business owner…believe me, taxes are paid on everything.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: As a longtime business owner…believe me, taxes are paid on everything. Sure they are for medium to small biz. My biz too. Look at what Apple and the alphabet companies pay proportionally. or the "nonprofits" like hospital systems. oh, and mr. trump...the are many mr trump's out there. Edited March 17, 2023 by redtail hawk
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: no mystery here. She isn't very likable and "deplorables" put a dagger in her campaign.
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