Thurman#1 Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Back2Buff said: Jefferson, Butler, Addison, Klein, Norman, Oliver, Epenesa. Right, so two who've underperformed a bit when forced into different roles than they were expected to play because of the opt-out of Lotulelei, Addison who has been OK, Klein who overperformed, Norman who was pretty good when uninjured, and two very promising draftees who are young and on an upward trajectory and appear to be headed towards being very good. And strangely, you left out Jordan Phillips, who vastly outplayed his contract, Lorax's new contract, and a bunch of other nice cheap signings of depth guys who worked out well. Not to mention that with many of those guys playing very significant minutes in 2019 this defense was outright elite, and that after the new guys came in before the 2020 season and essentially missed the offseason they still got things together even after Lotulelei's optout meant they had to drastically shift things around and put guys in different roles to try to get things working ... they still managed to get things in order and when Oliver and Edmunds started to get healthy after the first six games or so, they were a top ten defense the rest of the way PPG and YPG. So yeah, you're not especially right. This defense was terrific in 2019 and quite good the last 5/8ths of the season. Not to mention all the offensive guys they brought in as well. There's a reason he's now taking the next step up in what looks like a promising career. Edited May 9, 2021 by Thurman#1
machine gun kelly Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 Happy for the guy. He did a nice job for us and now he gets to the next step. Carolina needs all the help it can get with administrative and coaching help.
Mountain Man Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 21 hours ago, Back2Buff said: If they keep missing on picks and signings, that will take care of itself. However, the nucleus built prior to May of 2018 is hedging on elite. For now, that is hiding the recent misses Are you absolutely sure?
Saxum Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Right, so two who've underperformed a bit when forced into different roles than they were expected to play because of the opt-out of Lotulelei, Addison who has been OK, Klein who overperformed, Norman who was pretty good when uninjured, and two very promising draftees who are young and on an upward trajectory and appear to be headed towards being very good. Klein was playing out of position until they adjusted defense for him and then in week 12 he was defense player of the week. Bills were playing 4-2-5 defense which requires LBs to cover a lot more ground so is not ideal starter but still played 61% of defense snaps in
Just Joshin' Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 21 hours ago, Saint Doug said: No big loss. Next man up. What are you basing this on?
HOUSE Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 These two organizations are in Ka-hoots and I am just sick about it
Saint Doug Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: What are you basing this on? Josh Norman, Tyler Kroft, Matakevich, Barkley, Addison, Trent Murphy, Jefferson, Deshawn Philips, Nskekhe, Frank Gore, Jake Fisher, EJ Gaines, Eli Harold, Spencer Long, Seniorise Perry, Maurice Alexander, Quinton Spain, LaAddrian Waddle, Yeldon, Lee Smith, Derek Anderson, Chris Ivory, Julian Stanford, Bodine, Vontae Davis, Marshall Newhouse, Jeremy Kerley, Terrelle Pryor, Vernon Butler, Taiwan Jones, and AJ Klein have all been underwhelming. Mitch Morse was never supposed to be this lacking. This guy was supposed to be elite. True, Brown and Philips were good signings, but not good enough to be still on our team. That leaves us with Andre Roberts (good signing, but nothing to get excited over), Daryl Williams (hardly much knowledge had to be gathered for this signing as he came from a former team), Star is OK (but the Carolina background just signifies coaches signing familiar players), Feliciano (good signing!), Cole Beasley (love the signing), and Diggs (elite singing!, but trading away a 1st meant Beane was likely in the drivers seat with this one). The Bills seem to sign, not a handful, but usually a crowd of FAs. The vast majority do not contribute much and a few are great. So, do you have any data that Morgan was responsible for signing great/good professional players at a better rate than the average Director of PP? Edited May 10, 2021 by Saint Doug
Just Joshin' Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, Saint Doug said: Josh Norman, Tyler Kroft, Matakevich, Barkley, Addison, Trent Murphy, Jefferson, Deshawn Philips, Nskekhe, Frank Gore, Jake Fisher, EJ Gaines, Eli Harold, Spencer Long, Seniorise Perry, Maurice Alexander, Quinton Spain, LaAddrian Waddle, Yeldon, Lee Smith, Derek Anderson, Chris Ivory, Julian Stanford, Bodine, Vontae Davis, Marshall Newhouse, Jeremy Kerley, Terrelle Pryor, Vernon Butler, Taiwan Jones, and AJ Klein have all been underwhelming. Mitch Morse was never supposed to be this lacking. This guy was supposed to be elite. True, Brown and Philips were good signings, but not good enough to be still on our team. That leaves us with Andre Roberts (good signing, but nothing to get excited over), Daryl Williams (hardly much knowledge had to be gathered for this signing as he came from a former team), Star is OK (but the Carolina background just signifies coaches signing familiar players), Feliciano (good signing!), Cole Beasley (love the signing), and Diggs (elite singing!, but trading away a 1st meant Beane was likely in the drivers seat with this one). The Bills seem to sign, not a handful, but usually a crowd of FAs. The vast majority do not contribute much and a few are great. So, do you have any data that Morgan was responsible for signing great/good professional players at a better rate than the average Director of PP? Just listing names I see......Many of these were signed before he was in Buffalo. Want to try again.
Saint Doug Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: Just listing names I see......Many of these were signed before he was in Buffalo. Want to try again. I specifically listed players that were FA signings from 2018 onwards. Morgan was hired in 2018. Care to point out which names were hired before him? You said “many”, so I expect to see a bunch of names. And while you’re at it, can explain how he has done a better job than the average Director of PP. Given the number of FA signings per year, seems like the Bills were flinging crap at the side of a barn and seeing what stuck. Now, I certainly don’t know what his role was in signing each of these players, or whether his mandate was to sign as many as possible, but he was the Director.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/8/2021 at 1:20 PM, Back2Buff said: Glad he’s gone. He came on board in May 2018. The players that have come on board since then defensively have been bad. Gaine was a big loss. He can now take back his position On 5/8/2021 at 1:28 PM, Back2Buff said: Jefferson, Butler, Addison, Klein, Norman, Oliver, Epenesa. Gaine was gone for only one year, and was back on staff for the signing/drafting of every player in your list.
GunnerBill Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 In terms of structure Morgan was Director of Player Personnel which in the Bills hierarchy basically meant he was 3rd in command behind Beane and Schoen. He was involved both in college and pro scouting overseeing both Terrance Gray as Director of College Scouting and Malik Boyd as Director of Pro Personnel. How much of his time was college and how much was pro is hard to discern but theoretically at least he sat across both.
Back2Buff Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Gaine was gone for only one year, and was back on staff for the signing/drafting of every player in your list. Gaine is just an advisor. He doesn't have a real position on staff. He didn't even move to Buffalo and was never in the building.
Royale with Cheese Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In terms of structure Morgan was Director of Player Personnel which in the Bills hierarchy basically meant he was 3rd in command behind Beane and Schoen. He was involved both in college and pro scouting overseeing both Terrance Gray as Director of College Scouting and Malik Boyd as Director of Pro Personnel. How much of his time was college and how much was pro is hard to discern but theoretically at least he sat across both. So pretty much Gaine takes Morgan's position?
GunnerBill Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: So pretty much Gaine takes Morgan's position? Gaine was in exactly that role before he left to be Houston GM. It has been my belief since the Bills hired him back as an "adviser" who barely has to show up to the facility that they were essentially keeping him in reserve for when one of Schoen or Morgan moved on. If it had been Schoen I think Morgan would have been promoted and Gaine returned to the Director of Player Personnel role. As it is Morgan who has gone my instinct is a like for like replacement. EDIT: Also worth remembering Gaine was one of the other interviewees in the process that got the Bills to Brandon Beane (and my view about how genuine those other interviews were is well known, but still worth keeping in mind). Edited May 10, 2021 by GunnerBill
Boxcar Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/8/2021 at 1:20 PM, Back2Buff said: Glad he’s gone. He came on board in May 2018. The players that have come on board since then defensively have been bad. Gaine was a big loss. He can now take back his position You're making some death defying leaps here.
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