Can Patriots challenge with run first offense this year?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really interesting conversation you guys are having...

 

Basically.

[Eastport bills]

If Cam is not back to the form he showed at Carolina early on, they will be better but not at our level. They went heavy on offense with off season acquisitions but defensive shortcomings will hold them back.

[Ramza86]

They can certainly make the playoffs. 7 spots. This seems like an easy in for them. Im sure thats why they went hard in FA this year. 7 spots.

[DCofNC]

On 5/8/2021 at 2:25 AM, Dr.Sack said:

I don’t think the Pats are that good. Still shaky at WR, no proven QB makes them one dimensional. The Bills can also play smash mouth, and open it up and play spread. Our defense will be improved & our size gains should be more than enough to stop them. 

Really? When please site an example of the Bills playing smash mouth football, that doesn’t involve Allen just taking off for a big run. 
 

 

[Dr.Sack]

On 5/18/2021 at 5:08 AM, DCofNC said:

Really? When please site an example of the Bills playing smash mouth football, that doesn’t involve Allen just taking off for a big run. 
 

 

Zach Moss can grind the clock in Q4. Go look it up. He iced the clock in a few games.

[Rocky Landing]

26 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Zach Moss can grind the clock in Q4. Go look it up. He iced the clock in a few games.

Running the clock down in the fourth quarter isn't exactly the definition of "smash mouth football."

[Buffalo ill]

The Bills seem like a soft finesse team.  Fortunately one that can score a lot.

[Dr.Sack]

16 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Running the clock down in the fourth quarter isn't exactly the definition of "smash mouth football."

You prefer the QB kneeling?

[Rocky Landing]

19 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

You prefer the QB kneeling?

You mean the victory formation? I’ll say yes, but that doesn’t really apply to the conversation. My point stands. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 5/9/2021 at 4:14 PM, Billy Claude said:

It's harder, but you can still win with a strong running game, a very strong defense and competent quarterbacking.  The 49ers went to the Super Bowl with that just two years ago.

 

 

 

True and yes, it IS hard to maintain that strategy. A great passing offense requires less players to maintain good production, you just need a handful of core players like elite QB, 2 great receivers, (TE or WR) LT, and Center. Obivously there are exceptions, but generally u can be a perennial playoff team if u are strong @ these positions. With your Brady and Manning's you just need a line that can block for 3 seconds.

 

For a power running offense and elite defense it requires so many different working parts to stay elite. Generally, elite defensive Superbowl caliber teams have a 2-4 year window to compete. 

 

Seattle's legion of boom for example. They had their 3 year run, went to a couple Superbowls, and fortunately got one title out of it (2 if their idiot coach ran Lynch instead of throwing it at the 3 yard line.) After that they lost players to free agency and aging. They've gone a different route and got themselves a true elite #1 and built their offense into a dominant passing one.

 

It's easier to build a great defense than it is to find an elite QB (see the Bills all throughout the drought) but I feel like an elite defense comes around once or twice a decade so both are equally rare. Teams w/ elite offenses have a 10-15 year window to win titles so it makes much more sense to find your franchise QB. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[just1hugheser]

On 5/8/2021 at 5:11 AM, just1hugheser said:

There is really only one formula that has ever worked to win a super bowl when a team doesn't have a premier QB; 

 

And that was to have a game manager who didn't turn the ball over-could distribute the ball to playmakers -has that or at least some of that 'clutchiness'/'poise' to complete a couple 3rd and longish when necessary(5-15yards) in the second half/when teams load the box. 

 

And to protect said QB the team had to have a dominant OLine which in turn led to a generally clean pocket and a solid if not punishing running game.(The Pats current OLine looks like who'd you'd gather up if you needed to create a human battering ram). 

 

And said team of course also had to have a dominant defense/special teams, already have a solid core with Gilmore, Guy, Winovich, Hightower, Jackson, Jones,McCourty, Duggar Then they went and added Van Noy, Judon, Mills, Godchaux, plus they have or added a couple guys who are solid/improving or are just good depth. 

 

They will have a top 5-10 defense especially with Billy being all pissed off.  (Oh and nabbed one of the best DT's in Barmore and got a good one in Perkins too, and I liked McGrone coming out this year too, dont much about Bledsoe)

 

And said team also generally had a very good coaching staff from top to bottom, which of course the Pats have had since Billy first arrived as he has always known the importance of getting the best of the best at every coaching position(most underrated imo was Dante Scarnecchia(thankfully retired, unfort they did bring back Patricia who will always be a better coordinator than head coach)).

 

They have pretty much all the elements and really their offense is setup very nicely for any QB but in particular Cam and anybody coming out of college.   For Cam they can use designed runs and rpo's and of course play action and with their personnel alone they can allow their QBs to have better options throwing in the middle of the field.(The last 2 being positive for any QB obviously but also more so for rookies or game managers). 

With Mac Jones they lose the running ability but they gain the ability to attack the entire field through the air and in time I believe a better understanding of the defense and how to use the offense to manipulate each defense.

 

In my opinion its gonna be a hotly contested AFC east especially if Tua starts to play in any way how many people thought he could coming out the Fins have a solid team too.  And I think the Jets finally have a coaching staff now they'll have to find out if they have their QB.

 

 

 

People underestimating Belichek(they were 7-9 with a terrible roster, and they ran all over us needing a last second fumble from Cam to barely hold onto the win, and JA in that game was 11/18 for 154 and an int so Belichek still knows hows to gameplan when it matters) will be surprised and people underestimating mac jones will be surprised.  and dont tell me about the game in dec. when the game didnt matter to the pats.

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, just1hugheser said:

 

People underestimating Belichek(they were 7-9 with a terrible roster, and they ran all over us needing a last second fumble from Cam to barely hold onto the win, and JA in that game was 11/18 for 154 and an int so Belichek still knows hows to gameplan when it matters) will be surprised and people underestimating mac jones will be surprised.  and dont tell me about the game in dec. when the game didnt matter to the pats.

Thats partially true.  In the first game the winds were avg. 45 mph., so it became a running game for both teams.   We ran for over 200 yards, but BB’s problem was he dropped 8 back which was surprising he was that concerned with our passing game in those conditions.  If he would’ve pressed on us, we may have lost that game.

 

 

He was so concerned with shutting down our passing game, he missed it.  I was surprised as he typically is much better with strategy.  The Pats need a QB to compete.  We’ll see if if Jones is the answer.

[just1hugheser]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:08 AM, machine gun kelly said:

Thats partially true.  In the first game the winds were avg. 45 mph., so it became a running game for both teams.   We ran for over 200 yards, but BB’s problem was he dropped 8 back which was surprising he was that concerned with our passing game in those conditions.  If he would’ve pressed on us, we may have lost that game.

 

 

He was so concerned with shutting down our passing game, he missed it.  I was surprised as he typically is much better with strategy.  The Pats need a QB to compete.  We’ll see if if Jones is the answer.

Ill give you the wind for sure, but I think Bill allowed us to run so that we don't develop a rhythm in the passing game which is important for Josh and it also limits our scoring potential, imo as an offense even if we are running the ball effectively if we arent in rhythm and passing the ball effectively our ppg would decrease, so by allowing us to run the ball and in turn running the ball themsevles they limit our offense and points thus keeping the game closer for that final drive.

 

I didnt articulate what i was thinking or trying to say very well but I think maybe if Im lucky I got my point across.

[machine gun kelly]

10 minutes ago, just1hugheser said:

Ill give you the wind for sure, but I think Bill allowed us to run so that we don't develop a rhythm in the passing game which is important for Josh and it also limits our scoring potential, imo as an offense even if we are running the ball effectively if we arent in rhythm and passing the ball effectively our ppg would decrease, so by allowing us to run the ball and in turn running the ball themsevles they limit our offense and points thus keeping the game closer for that final drive.

 

I didnt articulate what i was thinking or trying to say very well but I think maybe if Im lucky I got my point across.

Sure. I won’t debate that point at all.  What I’m saying is in those winds even with Josh Allen’s arm there is still a margin for error as a gust of 50 or so can draw the ball off and you’re snacks can pick it off.  Therefore why so worried about the pass.

 

it sounds like you are a pats fan and as the mods say welcome here.  My point was if the pats ***** down te run which was suspect in 2020, even though successful in the pass, the pats would’ve forced our passing game meaning more opportunities for the pats.  It was a critical error for the pats.  I doubt even Favre with that rocket back in the day or elway would’ve had an easy time with that wind.  The thing about OP is the wind swirls which makes it even harder like the old Giants stadium.

 

you may have won that game if you put 8 in the box.  You’re team played into our hand.  When a level playing field in the second game it wasn’t even close.  You can say they had nothing to play for but neither did we when we shut out the jets from a playoff birth when futz was there.  Our guys wrecked the jets season.  We weren’t making the playoffs finishing 9-7 even with that win.

[just1hugheser]

11 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Sure. I won’t debate that point at all.  What I’m saying is in those winds even with Josh Allen’s arm there is still a margin for error as a gust of 50 or so can draw the ball off and you’re snacks can pick it off.  Therefore why so worried about the pass.

 

it sounds like you are a pats fan and as the mods say welcome here.  My point was if the pats ***** down te run which was suspect in 2020, even though successful in the pass, the pats would’ve forced our passing game meaning more opportunities for the pats.  It was a critical error for the pats.  I doubt even Favre with that rocket back in the day or elway would’ve had an easy time with that wind.  The thing about OP is the wind swirls which makes it even harder like the old Giants stadium.

 

you may have won that game if you put 8 in the box.  You’re team played into our hand.  When a level playing field in the second game it wasn’t even close.  You can say they had nothing to play for but neither did we when we shut out the jets from a playoff birth when futz was there.  Our guys wrecked the jets season.  We weren’t making the playoffs finishing 9-7 even with that win.

 

 

hahah the pats are not my team, I just respect belichek maybe more than i should in a roundabout way because i hate brady so much, maybe in my head im hoping belichek is better than he actually is just so i can take some credit away from brady, as for the wind i dont doubt it affects the ball a ton even with Allen's cannon however I think letting us run the ball was part of the gameplan wind or no wind because of JA and the success of our passing game.

 

It's really not that important to debate either way, its all just guessing at this point but I think those who think that belichek will be nothing without brady are mistaken and also that mac jones will pan out for them, do i want that to be the case?  absolutely not, i would love it if jones becomes a flop and belichek is shamed out of the nfl in a year or two for being nothing without brady.  However as it stands they have one of the best offensive lines, and imo have one of the best defenses in the league so if cam or mac can be marginally effective they should be very competitive.

 

haha you said i was a pats fan, if you knew me you would know how funny that actually is, I am a homer but I like to think i can be objective with what I actually think and not what i want.

[machine gun kelly]

Ok, fair enough.  

[just1hugheser]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Ok, fair enough.  

Don't get me wrong I'm agreeing with you about the wind and the Pats should have switched their gameplan once they saw that the wind was going to stop JA far more effectively than they could especially without Gilmore, but that doesn't bolster my assertion that Belichek will still be a winner and considered one of the best coaches of all time even without Brady lol.

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

With Allen Belicheat is going to play the Bills this years like he played the Bills in the 1990 Super Bowl. We need to be ready for the Nickel and Dime formations.

[machine gun kelly]

Ktulu, the 49ers, Fins, and Stillers tried that exact strategy.  It didn’t work in good conditions.  We’ll see.  The Pats defense may be better as they received a couple of their opt outs back and Chung I believe retired.

 

They also brought in slower, but bigger WR’s and two TE’s that were an upgrade.  That should help a weaker QB or inexperienced one.  I’ll still place 21 red on Allen and Diggs all day long.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/18/2021 at 7:08 AM, DCofNC said:

Really? When please site an example of the Bills playing smash mouth football, that doesn’t involve Allen just taking off for a big run. 
 

 

Well strangely the Bills ran very heavily during 1st Pats game last year