Can Patriots challenge with run first offense this year?

[corta765]

If the question is do the Pats have enough for playoffs I would say absolutely. Their defense is solid, the offense has some better weapons although the WR corp and O line I think are both suspect. Additionally the AFC after BUF, KC, & BAL feels really wide open so i can easily see NE getting 10-11 wins.

 

NOW in regards to the Bills whose their QB and how well is he playing? The NFL is a QB league to the max anymore and honestly I do not worry about a team unless their QB is equal or possibly better then Josh which is basically Mahomes, Rodgers, & Brady (FYI dear god that felt good to type after sooo much bad QB play for the Bills). When Buffalo smoked NE last year BB's frustration wasn't just the Bills team, but the fact nothing could stop Josh. So unless he has a guy who does that which I doubt with Cam being older and not as mobile and Mac Jones isn't having that type of breakout, their an annoyance not a threat.

[Might Rather]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:25 PM, joey greco said:

***** him, ***** his cheating ass, ***** the pats, the end, god bless.

That could be a t-shirt.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

19 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 
lmao 😂     They win nothing without Tom. 
 

Chill 

 

 

This reminds me of something stupid someone like Skip Bayless would say on his show. Just hot-take BS w/ no facts or statistics to back it up. Yes, Tom Brady is the greatest Patriot and one of best players of any position in NFL history, but he was fairly mediocre early in his career and is no way solely responsible for the first couple titles.

 

In 2001, the year they beat the Rams, Brady threw for 2800 yards & some change while posting 12 TDs to 8 picks. This was good enough for 28th in the league in total TDs and yards. Helping to shoulder the load was former Bill Antowain Smith an 1100+ yard, 8 TD rusher, the most clutch kicker of all time, top O-Line & defense featuring several Hall of famers. Oh yeah, and Bill Belichick was the coach. That's quite a supporting cast.

 

Actually, without their kicker (and the Tuck Rule) I don't think they even MAKE it to the Superbowl let alone win it. Look at Superbowl 25 for example, our beloved Bills vs the Giants. If you swapped Norwood and put Adam Vinatieri on that Bills squad, they most likely nail that 47 yarder, history is changed forever, and Buffalo is no longer the butt of every lame Superbowl joke.

 

The bottom line is Tom Brady HIMSELF would give credit to his teammates that deserve it. I'm not sure if you're just really young or really ignorant, but everybody on this forum who was around for the early 2000s will tell you that those Patriot teams were well balanced and Brady wasn't the god that he is now. If u have something to say at least support it with facts because your opinion doesn't quite cut it. 😣

Edited May 11, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

This reminds me of something stupid someone like Skip Bayless would say on his show. Just hot-take BS w/ no facts or statistics to back it up. Yes, Tom Brady is the greatest Patriot and one of best players of any position in NFL history, but he was fairly mediocre early in his career and is no way solely responsible for the first couple titles.

 

In 2001, the year they beat the Rams, Brady threw for 2800 yards & some change while posting 12 TDs to 8 picks. This was good enough for 28th in the league in total TDs and yards. Helping to shoulder the load was former Bill Antowain Smith an 1100+ yard, 8 TD rusher, the most clutch kicker of all time, top O-Line & defense featuring several Hall of famers. Oh yeah, and Bill Belichick was the coach. That's quite a supporting cast.

 

Actually, without their kicker (and the Tuck Rule) I don't think they even MAKE it to the Superbowl let alone win it. Look at Superbowl 25 for example, our beloved Bills vs the Giants. If you swapped Norwood and put Adam Vinatieri on that Bills squad, they most likely nail that 47 yarder, history is changed forever, and Buffalo is no longer the butt of every lame Superbowl joke.

 

The bottom line is Tom Brady HIMSELF would give credit to his teammates that deserve it. I'm not sure if you're just really young or really ignorant, but everybody on this forum who was around for the early 2000s will tell you that those Patriot teams were well balanced and Brady wasn't the god that he is now. If u have something to say at least support it with facts because your opinion doesn't quite cut it. 😣

thats a cool, long story. 
 

they suck without Brady    

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

6 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

thats a cool, long story. 
 

they suck without Brady    

 

Lol you're a tool. Go watch soccer

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Lol you're a tool. Go watch soccer

 

Whoa, hang on... we don't want him.

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

thats a cool, long story. 
 

they suck without Brady    

You didn’t respond to his post. 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

You didn’t respond to his post. 

My post.    
 

Brady > Belichek 

 

The other guy can wake me up when they win without him.   

 

 

[Billy Claude]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Whoa, hang on... we don't want him.

 

I apologize for taking this off topic -- but I would be interested in what your opinion regarding the super-league.

 

It was handled extremely badly and destroys tradition, but on the other hand, a team like the Bills would probably have been relegated a long time ago under the European system.  Even teams like Tottenham and Arsenal seem like they may not have the financial resources to compete with the Manchester City's and Liverpools of the world.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I apologize for taking this off topic -- but I would be interested in what your opinion regarding the super-league.

 

It was handled extremely badly and destroys tradition, but on the other hand, a team like the Bills would probably have been relegated a long time ago under the European system.  Even teams like Tottenham and Arsenal seem like they may not have the financial resources to compete with the Manchester City's and Liverpools of the world.

 

 

So a few things to unpack:

 

1. I speak as an Arsenal fan and we certainly do not, as things currently stand, have the resources to compete with City, United and Chelsea. 

 

2. Liverpool are actually in our group rather than that other one they have just been exceptional in the transfer market, made huge profits on guys like Sterling, Suarez and Coutinho and reinvested that money brilliantly - exactly what Arsenal were doing when we were winning leagues in the late 90s early 00s. 

 

On the Super League specifically:

 

1. Extremely badly handled. My belief is that the 12 teams were not all agreed on what it was. I think some thought it was the ultimate power move on UEFA to get them back to the negotiating table on their proposal for a revised Champions League whereas others thought this was really it - the breakaway moment!

 

2. The idea stinks. Football (soccer to you guys) is different than American sports. There are lots of reasons why but I think largely fewer barriers to entry. Just in the UK alone we have 92 professional clubs. The idea of a closed shop is the antethesis of what the game has been built on. 

 

3. We will get there in some form anyway. UEFA's revised Champions League is not that different. Rather than the 6 group games there are now there are 10 in the new format. Nobody who watches the Champions League says "what this needs is more group games". It is all about increasing the guaranteed revenue for teams that qualify. Rather than 6x TV money + 3x home attendance revenues it gives 10x TV money and 5x attendance revenues. In addition, the new format grants two "wildcards" which will go to traditionally big clubs from the big 3 or 4 leagues - England, Spain, Germany, Italy - who have failed to qualify through normal means. So not quite the "closed shop" model the Super League was but certainly an additional safety net to allow the big boys to be rewarded even when they fail. 

 

4. To an extent, as a threat, it worked. UEFA didn't come back to the table on structure but did announce it was in talks with a major corporate sponsor to increase the total pot on offer from its new structure from €4bn to €6.5bn. 

 

5. One day it will happen. I suspect it will happen without a breakaway. UEFA will just keep fiddling with the Champions League format and financial model until it is impossible for the big clubs to fail. And there is a market out there for it. It just isn't particularly in the cities that made the game... it is in Asia, the arab states, Africa etc. I don't like where the game is going long term. 

[Billy Claude]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So a few things to unpack:

 

1. I speak as an Arsenal fan and we certainly do not, as things currently stand, have the resources to compete with City, United and Chelsea. 

 

2. Liverpool are actually in our group rather than that other one they have just been exceptional in the transfer market, made huge profits on guys like Sterling, Suarez and Coutinho and reinvested that money brilliantly - exactly what Arsenal were doing when we were winning leagues in the late 90s early 00s. 

 

On the Super League specifically:

 

1. Extremely badly handled. My belief is that the 12 teams were not all agreed on what it was. I think some thought it was the ultimate power move on UEFA to get them back to the negotiating table on their proposal for a revised Champions League whereas others thought this was really it - the breakaway moment!

 

 

Thanks.  That was very illuminating.

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

13 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Lol you're a tool. Go watch soccer

You said give some credit to Antoine Smith 😂😂😂
 

They were crap sans Tommy Boy last year and Belichek keeps drafting busts over and over.   It’s over bud, you don’t have to kneel to them anymore 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Teddy KGB
Addition

[dave mcbride]

51 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

You said give some credit to Antoine Smith 😂😂😂
 

They were crap sans Tommy Boy last year and Belichek keeps drafting busts over and over.   It’s over bud, you don’t have to kneel to them anymore 

 

Smith had a terrific year in 2001. As did their #1 pick, Richard Seymour, who basically saved the Raiders game for them when he stuffed the Raiders on third down on the Raiders final possession in regulation. More broadly, the idea that the Patriots can't draft well is a massive myth. They have had bad drafts the last 4-5 seasons (we don't know about 2021 yet), but from 2001-2015, the number of good picks is very strong overall: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm. As for 2000, his first year there, he drafted Brady. But just look at 2001-2004. 

[ndirish1978]

With that defense I would expect a grind-out-the-clock offense to be successful if they can manage to put points on the board. If they run around the field and just pick up FGs, probably not.  

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

You said give some credit to Antoine Smith 😂😂😂
 

They were crap sans Tommy Boy last year and Belichek keeps drafting busts over and over.   It’s over bud, you don’t have to kneel to them anymore 

 

 

Yeah, absolutely I give credit to "Antoine" Smith. 1100 yards is great production for a RB. Imagine having someone like that on the Bills. They would've won the Superbowl.

 

Nobody is kneeling to anybody. If anything, you're on Brady's nuts by giving him full credit for everything. I actually watched those Patriot games b/c I try to stay knowledgeable of the rest of the AFC East teams, I didn't read about them like u probably did 🙄

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

My post.    
 

Brady > Belichek 

 

The other guy can wake me up when they win without him.   

 

 

 

Wow, this post was truly insightful! You absolutely changed my opinion w/ your amazing persuasion and ability to support your claims w/ things like facts and examples. Your knowledge of football is clearly off the charts. Thank u for your contributions to this board. If only we had more members like u. 🙏

[Success]

At this point, the Pats are just another division foe w/ an uncertain QB situation.

 

To answer the OP question, I don't think they can challenge w/ a run first offense.  The Bills tried to do that through most of the drought. Granted, not with as good of a coach - but you need a QB to win. That's the 1st rule of NFL club.

 

The Patriots will go as far as either Cam or Mac Jones can take them. I basically know what we're facing w/ Cam, and welcome that.  Jones is more of the x factor - but even if he pans out, it will take time.  I just don't see them being too much of a threat this year.

 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Wow, this post was truly insightful! You absolutely changed my opinion w/ your amazing persuasion and ability to support your claims w/ things like facts and examples. Your knowledge of football is clearly off the charts. Thank u for your contributions to this board. If only we had more members like u. 🙏

Are you going to be okay ?   When they win a playoff game without Tom Brady we can entertain your theories.    Probably won’t happen though.   Know what I mean ? 
 

You can celebrate the old man who drafted Sony Michel > Nick Chubb and K’neal Harry > Deebo Samuels and DK Metcalf 😂😂😂

Edited May 12, 2021 by Teddy KGB

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Smith had a terrific year in 2001. As did their #1 pick, Richard Seymour, who basically saved the Raiders game for them when he stuffed the Raiders on third down on the Raiders final possession in regulation. More broadly, the idea that the Patriots can't draft well is a massive myth. They have had bad drafts the last 4-5 seasons (we don't know about 2021 yet), but from 2001-2015, the number of good picks is very strong overall: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm. As for 2000, his first year there, he drafted Brady. But just look at 2001-2004. 

 

You're right on those 01-04 drafts 💯 going back on rechecking them and holy cow, they nailed multiple picks during that small window.

 

HOF worthy= Matt Light, Asante Samuel, Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork

 

Pro-Bowlers = Dan Koppen, Jarvis Green, Ty Warren, Ben Watson, Deion Branch

 

Solid Starters/Role players=  David Givens, Tuli Banta-Cain

 

That is very impressive regardless of what team you're a fan of and it throws the the "Patriots suck @ drafting" theory right out of the window. 90% of those guys went on to become core players on those Superbowl teams.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 K’neal Harry > Deebo Samuels and DK Metcalf 😂😂😂

 

And AJ Brown. I still think of the guys in that draft he is the best receiver and he sure as hell was tailor made for that Patriots scheme. Harry never even seemed like a scheme fit. 

 

The last half a decade of Patriots drafting has been atrocious.