sherpa Posted February 8 Posted February 8 17 minutes ago, daz28 said: Like I said, it wasn't an insult, but you chose to take it that way, so that's on you. Anyways, how it affects one industry, that you're familiar with, doesn't mean you understand how it affects thousands of other industries. That's why I said it's a complex mixed bag. I'm not claiming to know much about it myself. In fact, kind of admitting I don't know much other than some people say it hurt their business, while others have said it helped. What you are doing is claiming a general view and not considering specifics within that proclamation. Tariffs against parties competing on equal footing are not desirable. Tariffs against parties that are stealing technology, stealing manufacturing processes, and stealing copyrighted/patented property warrants response. That is China, and that is where we are. China has been stealing from the US manufacturer and employer, and thus the employee for years, and in the last few years has elevated the threat to a military component. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Eff. They won't be cutting. They might need to raise them. 1
B-Man Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Say It Ain't So, Joe! January Inflation Rises More Than Expected as Soaring Prices Continue https://redstate.com/mike_miller/2024/02/13/say-it-aint-so-joe-inflation-rises-more-than-expected-in-january-as-high-prices-persist-n2170038
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 15 Posted February 15 On 2/8/2024 at 3:21 PM, sherpa said: What you are doing is claiming a general view and not considering specifics within that proclamation. Tariffs against parties competing on equal footing are not desirable. Tariffs against parties that are stealing technology, stealing manufacturing processes, and stealing copyrighted/patented property warrants response. That is China, and that is where we are. China has been stealing from the US manufacturer and employer, and thus the employee for years, and in the last few years has elevated the threat to a military component. This was well-thought out and designed by Chinese authorities to set the price of selling and doing business in China as the sharing technology typically through joint venture agreements which made "stealing" technology easier. Companies willingly entered these agreements seeing stars in the eyes over the huge market potential. Along with this came infiltration of domestic US businesses and government through spies and bribes to employees to steal and transfer technology. While voices raise more and more concerns about these practices China has also engaged in a practice called "elite capture" which is more or less paying off influential people to object to and obstruct any actions to tighten up security. It should also be noted while our officials in Washington sit around playing with themselves China has made huge inroads in Central and South America. Right in our own backyard as we focus on events elsewhere.
The Frankish Reich Posted February 15 Posted February 15 On 2/8/2024 at 12:50 PM, Tiberius said: Tariffs to what end? Then they put more on us, we lose markets, prices rise and consumers have fewer choices. Tariffs are crude measure and free trade works to improve the general prosperity of all. I understand the idea of using tariffs as a strategy to promote lower tariffs from our trade partners, a kind of tit-for-tat thing. But the history of that strategy isn't very promising. In general, tariffs mean consumer items cost more, and harm the U.S. economy. That part is abundantly clear. 2 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 15 Posted February 15 43 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: It should also be noted while our officials in Washington sit around playing with themselves China has made huge inroads in Central and South America. Right in our own backyard as we focus on events elsewhere. isolationism and tariffs are the opposite of what you suggest we need to do. Those are populist actions of "playing with themselves". Simple proposed solutions to complex problems = fascism. Historically, these solutions turned out to be BS or even evil... 1 1
Tiberius Posted February 15 Posted February 15 7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: isolationism and tariffs are the opposite of what you suggest we need to do. Those are populist actions of "playing with themselves". Simple proposed solutions to complex problems = fascism. Historically, these solutions turned out to be BS or even evil... The Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 made the depression worse as international trade plummeted after it and the retaliatory tariffs that followed. Hitler might not of grabbed power had that measure not gone into effect. 1 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 15 Posted February 15 23 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 made the depression worse as international trade plummeted after it and the retaliatory tariffs that followed. Hitler might not of grabbed power had that measure not gone into effect. The onerous terms and conditions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles had the greatest impact on the conditions that facilitated Hitler's rise to power.
Tiberius Posted February 15 Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The onerous terms and conditions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles had the greatest impact on the conditions that facilitated Hitler's rise to power. No. That is what Hitler said, though. Blamed the whole depression on the Treaty. The Great Depression brought Hitler to power. In 1928 the Nazis got about 2% of the vote. After the Depression hit they topped out at 37% and seized power 1 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 15 Posted February 15 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tiberius said: @Irv 🤮 Just take the emoji's as a badge of honor. These fools never rebut with any references or data except nut job sources like cat crap. Their use of emojis to answer difficult, complex questions means you've won and simultaneously revealed their ignorance....Thanks for the history lesson on Smoot-Hawley. Edited February 15 by Joe Ferguson forever 1
The Frankish Reich Posted February 15 Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Just take the emoji's as a badge of honor. These fools never rebut with any references or data except nut job sources like cat crap. Their use of emojis to answer difficult, complex questions means you've won....Thanks for the history lesson on Smoot-Hawley. No, they never rebut with references or data, because for them this is not about references or data. They are America's Putins. They are more interested in achieving what their particular view of American Greatness means. In other words, they don't care if overall standards of living decline in America or in the world in general. They care that America is considered the world's greatest industrial power, even if our comparative advantage is no longer in heavy industry. Just like Putin, who couldn't care less about the general standard of living of his people as long as his Russia is dominant in what he calls Eurasia. To me it is a bizarre and irrational thought process, but that's where we are. And that's why rational argument will never work with them, and why they refuse to engage in it. 2 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 15 Posted February 15 14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No, they never rebut with references or data, because for them this is not about references or data. They are America's Putins. They are more interested in achieving what their particular view of American Greatness means. In other words, they don't care if overall standards of living decline in America or in the world in general. They care that America is considered the world's greatest industrial power, even if our comparative advantage is no longer in heavy industry. Just like Putin, who couldn't care less about the general standard of living of his people as long as his Russia is dominant in what he calls Eurasia. To me it is a bizarre and irrational thought process, but that's where we are. And that's why rational argument will never work with them, and why they refuse to engage in it. It's interesting to speculate about their motives. There is certainly an element of white supremacy on this board and in recent years we've discovered it to be quite prevalent in the general population. There is no rational, ethical argument to support white supremacy just as there aren't rational arguments for the conspiracy theories the Q nuts believe. I think it may just come down to bizarre wishful thinking. As you suggest, in the unlikely event that their political wet dreams come to pass, they'll likely be worse off than before. In the meantime, Jan 6 has taught us that stupid people can definitely be dangerous.
The Frankish Reich Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said: As you suggest, in the unlikely event that their political wet dreams come to pass, they'll likely be worse off than before And what I'm saying is that they would be happy with that. I mean, at least they think they'd be happy with that - an America that is a lot more like their nostalgic vision of the 1950s. Consumer goods cost more. There's less disposable income. Etc, etc. In reality, as soon as that starts to happen and GDP numbers reflect it, they'd be on to another political fad. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Margaret Thatcher, stating with remarkable clarity what conservative economics used to be all about: the other side "would rather the poor be poorer so that the rich can be less rich." That wisdom has been completely forgotten by today's so-called conservatives. 2
Doc Posted February 15 Posted February 15 23 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No, they never rebut with references or data, because for them this is not about references or data. They are America's Putins. They are more interested in achieving what their particular view of American Greatness means. In other words, they don't care if overall standards of living decline in America or in the world in general. They care that America is considered the world's greatest industrial power, even if our comparative advantage is no longer in heavy industry. Just like Putin, who couldn't care less about the general standard of living of his people as long as his Russia is dominant in what he calls Eurasia. To me it is a bizarre and irrational thought process, but that's where we are. And that's why rational argument will never work with them, and why they refuse to engage in it. This is (again, unintentionally) hilarious. At least we acknowledge that America was great at one time. You guys OTOH hate America/never thought it was great and are looking for it to become some Shangri-La that can't/won't ever exist, and are just making everything worse for everyone in the process. I mean when your examples of "rational thought" are to say "yeah, it's OK for kids to have life-altering gender surgery as a minor" or "yeah, biological males competing against biological females is fine"... 1
The Frankish Reich Posted February 15 Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, Doc said: This is (again, unintentionally) hilarious. At least we acknowledge that America was great at one time. You guys OTOH hate America/never thought it was great and are looking for it to become some Shangri-La that can't/won't ever exist, and are just making everything worse for everyone in the process. I mean when your examples of "rational thought" are to say "yeah, it's OK for kids to have life-altering gender surgery as a minor" or "yeah, biological males competing against biological females is fine"... Silly nonsequiturs. America was, and is, great. That greatness is found not in some imaginary memory of a Garden of Eden, but in our ability to continuously meet new challenges and to remain the most productive people in the world with the greatest capacity for rewarding hard work and innovation. It seems to me that the America Haters are the ones who deny that this country remains great. That's the whole point of Make America Great Again. 1
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