Brandon Beane on CBS Sports Radio around 2:40pm EST today

[Cash]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand you are stating your personal beliefs, I just want you to understand this is not the way the US  or private employers have historically operated.

 

The courts (all the way to the Supreme court) have so far pretty uniformly upheld work related and school related vaccination and PPE requirements, and also upheld local and state vaccine requirements (eg mandatory school vaccination, vaccination during epidemic disease outbreaks), providing exemptions were allowed for legitimate religious or medical reasons. 

 

It's discriminatory if it's applied differently to different groups of people working in the same or similar roles.  If it applies to everyone, you may not like it but it's not considered discriminatory.

 

 

 

 

 

“I called my boss a c*** and I got fired. Can I sue for discrimination?”

[Saxum]

3 minutes ago, Cash said:

“I called my boss a c*** and I got fired. Can I sue for discrimination?”

 

No Cash is a very dirty four letter word but commonly used in work environments. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:07 PM, SCBills said:

Are you an elite athlete in perfect shape?  They know what is going in their body via a toradol shot.   They don’t know if there will be any effects on their body next year, year after, year after etc., from putting this vaccine in them. 
 

Imagine your whole life revolving around being in optimal shape - this virus being of almost no risk to you, and having this, essentially, forced on you because of reasons I won’t get into, as this conversation has decently stayed above the fray.

 

You make an excellent point that for the NFL players, being in optimal physical condition and staying that way is of critical importance.

 

Please excuse me if I'm getting you wrong, but you seem to be implying that the vaccine is a significant unknown risk for the players, while the long-term effects of mild covid-19 disease are completely known and pose no or minimal long term risk for NFL players and their optimal health.  Am I misunderstanding you?

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think that's simply not true.  Several NFL football players who didn't get seriously ill had real, career-impacting effects (Von Miller, Myles Garrett, Tommy Sweeney, probably others we don't know about), lasting at least several months. 

The NFLPA acknowledges this: potential physical effects or impairment lasting months were cited by several as reason to not participate in OTAs and risk contracting Covid.  Now you may not believe they're sincere and think they're really motivated by not wanting to attend OTAs, but that is what they said.

 

It's probably not logical to think we know everything there is to know about Sars-Cov2 and its possible long term risks 1 year after it first showed up, when we're still learning about the serious long term effects of usually mild viral diseases that have been recognized for decades or centuries (measles, epstein-barr, herpes etc)

 

There's a lot of media coverage of vaccines right now.  There's not a lot of coverage about the known long term effects of some relatively mild viral illnesses in general, or of covid-19 in particular.  Lack of coverage doesn't mean lack of importance.

 

If I were a young healthy NFL player betting my physical health and condition, I would want to do a lot of research into the knowledge that's been built up about long-term effects of covid-19 in particular.  I would want to try to get the best objective information I could about long-term effects from every athlete who caught covid - Olympians and in other sports as well as NFL - did their V02 max drop or any other objective measurables?  How far for how long?  Did they have a drop on mental acuity and memory tests?  How much how long?  Cardiac effects? 

And if the answer is, there isn't a lot of data that's been gathered yet, I think the safe choice is to assume the novel virus just may have a few curveballs to throw at that optimally fit young NFL bod and I shouldn't be so hasty to worry about long term vaccine effects while dismissing long term effects of a novel virus.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Yup agree. Very good point. I wonder if everyone gets vaccinated if they still will have to get tested all the time? Or maybe not quite as much?. Or maybe just the ones that choose not to be vaccinated only gets tested so much?

 

I think this is the protocol:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/23/new-nfl-protocols-incentivize-players-staff-to-get-vaccinated/
 

Quote

A memo the league circulated to all teams says that players and staff members are no longer required to be tested daily — if they’re fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated players and team staffers will now only be tested once a week.

Players and staff members will also no longer have to stay away from the team facility for a day after travel, if they’re fully vaccinated. And they won’t have to quarantine after close contact with an infected person, but again only if they’re fully vaccinated.

In other words, life as an NFL player is going to be a lot more convenient once you’re fully vaccinated. Although the league can’t require players to get vaccinated, the new policies were put into place in conjunction with the NFL Players Association, so the players are on board.

 

Sounds like life for a vaccinated player will be much simpler.

 

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

They told Beane to take a heaping spoonful of grits...then sent them spewing all over the ground...

 

They gave him the Mutumbo finger wave on that...

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/league-spoke-with-bills-gm-brandon-beane-regarding-his-comments-about-potentiall

 

Not exactly:

Quote

The league notified Beane a team may not release a player solely due to vaccination status.

 

Beane to NFL: "Oh sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly.  I meant if two players were under consideration to be released, then I might use vaccination status instead of a coin flip or tossing a dart.  Oh, that's still not ok?  Then it was the coach's evaluation that drove the decision, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it."

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I appreciate your desire to avoid jobs that require vaccination and that is 100% your personal choice, but why is it wrong?  If my employer is paying me to be available, why should they tolerate me being avoidably unavailable because I'm sick with a preventable illness?  And why should they tolerate me potentially transmitting that illness to my coworkers and making them unavailable to do their jobs?

 

Because we don't know anything about it. There's no relevant record of clinical trials,  and generally it's just a breach of privacy. I'm pro vaccination 100%, but not as a guinea pig, and not for something my body can pretty easily shake off.  Who knows what this thing does. It could ignite a tumor that is and was going to stay dormant. Or accelerate one that we'd normally have a chance to catch and treat. Will it definitely do that? I dunno, but nobody does. Threatening your ability to provide for your family, to involuntarily put something in your body you don't want, is wayyyyy over stepping, bordering criminal act against your own people. Nooo no no

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand you are stating your personal beliefs, I just want you to understand this is not the way the US  or private employers have historically operated.

 

The courts (all the way to the Supreme court) have so far pretty uniformly upheld work related and school related vaccination and PPE requirements, and also upheld local and state vaccine requirements (eg mandatory school vaccination, vaccination during epidemic disease outbreaks), providing exemptions were allowed for legitimate religious or medical reasons. 

 

It's discriminatory if it's applied differently to different groups of people working in the same or similar roles.  If it applies to everyone, you may not like it but it's not considered discriminatory.

 

It is quite a generalization to state that courts have "pretty uniformly" decided on vaccination requirements.  You've long insisted on objective evidence to support assertions, and relevant case law is essential to your position here.  Please cite the cases.  

 

An individual still has the right to elect not to receive the vaccine.  And let's be clear, emergency use authorization vaccines are not quite what it was to receive your MMR or small pox shot to enter kindergarten.   

 

At some point, there will be people who decide against the vaccination for religious or other reasons.  There will be forced compliance, albeit not by government but by the sector those individuals work in.  I would hope that the courts rule in favor of individuals (who likely cannot give up their livelihood) if private or public sector entities requiring EUA vaccination can take this route.  It reminds me of legislatures trying to mandate massive insurance coverage for people to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.  It's a backdoor way to force compliance.    

 

Lastly, something can be non-discriminatory but be held unconstitutional.  Whether the Courts recognize the Constitution has not been suspended is another matter we are still working through.  My sense is precedent around vaccination and employer limits has only begun in light of what has most recently happened.  Especially when one considers the risk posed by the virus among working age people (those under 60).  

[BillsFan692]

The NFL is the one that is making it this way. The NFL IS THE ONE WHO TOLD THE BILLS THAT THEY CAN HAVE NICE THINGS IF THEY HIT A VACCINATION THRESHOLD.

 

Now NFL wants teams to entice players and educate them "to getting vaccine" so team can have "reward".

 

Of course Beane said what he said. The NFL made it this way. And regardless of why teams might say the cut player xyz, all players must now be thinking "I need to get vac or I am at best hurting my team or at worst gonna lose my job."

 

 

[H2o]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand you are stating your personal beliefs, I just want you to understand this is not the way the US  or private employers have historically operated.

 

The courts (all the way to the Supreme court) have so far pretty uniformly upheld work related and school related vaccination and PPE requirements, and also upheld local and state vaccine requirements (eg mandatory school vaccination, vaccination during epidemic disease outbreaks), providing exemptions were allowed for legitimate religious or medical reasons. 

 

It's discriminatory if it's applied differently to different groups of people working in the same or similar roles.  If it applies to everyone, you may not like it but it's not considered discriminatory.

 

 

 

 

 

Which is why Roger came out and told Beane he wasn't allowed to say that? That's the thing, there is no league wide mandate. That means it seems discriminatory to use it as a reason of termination. 

[machine gun kelly]

I received my vaccine the first day it came out fir my age group.  Eventually for broad health concerns like MMR, Chicken Pox, etc. it will most likely become mandatory for entry into some institutions.  I understand the NFL cautioning Beane as no policy has been determined at this point.

 

For some who’ve said there is no clinical record is silly.  All vaccines have to go through FDA approval with phase 1-3 clinical trials amd the data is available if you want to look it up.  As far as what might happen, you can say that about every medicine ever developed.  Fir example, the T Zones were widely used for type 2 diabetes until it was found out much later there were complications and eventually they were pulled from the market.  For every example of this happening like the current one with Zantac, there are 1000’s more that don’t have long term problems.  At this point, if a person chooses not to vaccinate, ok, but if the pandemic continues, public and private institutions may mandate for those working in a company or govt institution.

 

Now, for me to be eligible to work in hospitals in OR’s supporting docs in procedures, I have to go through vendor Credentialing basically the same as hospital employees.  I don’t have to get a TB test, flu shot, and so on and so on, but then I’m not granted access to that hospital and will be fired by my company.  It’s a require,ent and there is no way around it.  Why, because I could infect an employee, or patient.  It’s cut and dry.  These hospitals are private institutions except the VA, and to say how dare they make me get a vaccine.  I have a right to my privacy.  Sure, and my company can tell me I also have the right to be fired.

 

We’re not there yet societally, but it’s coming.  I know my two sons in order to go to their respective colleges in the fall will be required to learn virtually unless they get vaccinated.  I’m still laying the same tuition.  You can debate all day how fair or unfair something is, but it’s not going to change because you don’t like it.

 

Im sure the NFL will figure it out and there are most likely teams of lawyers debating the liabilities on both sides.

[H2o]

32 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I received my vaccine the first day it came out fir my age group.  Eventually for broad health concerns like MMR, Chicken Pox, etc. it will most likely become mandatory for entry into some institutions.  I understand the NFL cautioning Beane as no policy has been determined at this point.

 

For some who’ve said there is no clinical record is silly.  All vaccines have to go through FDA approval with phase 1-3 clinical trials amd the data is available if you want to look it up.  As far as what might happen, you can say that about every medicine ever developed.  Fir example, the T Zones were widely used for type 2 diabetes until it was found out much later there were complications and eventually they were pulled from the market.  For every example of this happening like the current one with Zantac, there are 1000’s more that don’t have long term problems.  At this point, if a person chooses not to vaccinate, ok, but if the pandemic continues, public and private institutions may mandate for those working in a company or govt institution.

 

Now, for me to be eligible to work in hospitals in OR’s supporting docs in procedures, I have to go through vendor Credentialing basically the same as hospital employees.  I don’t have to get a TB test, flu shot, and so on and so on, but then I’m not granted access to that hospital and will be fired by my company.  It’s a require,ent and there is no way around it.  Why, because I could infect an employee, or patient.  It’s cut and dry.  These hospitals are private institutions except the VA, and to say how dare they make me get a vaccine.  I have a right to my privacy.  Sure, and my company can tell me I also have the right to be fired.

 

We’re not there yet societally, but it’s coming.  I know my two sons in order to go to their respective colleges in the fall will be required to learn virtually unless they get vaccinated.  I’m still laying the same tuition.  You can debate all day how fair or unfair something is, but it’s not going to change because you don’t like it.

 

Im sure the NFL will figure it out and there are most likely teams of lawyers debating the liabilities on both sides.

And as you described, such is life in the field you chose. It tends to be different for medical professionals than any other field. I see this in the same light as a flu shot. I've never had one in my 44 years of existence. I don't need it. I don't want it. It's not required by anyone I've ever worked for. My kids only received it one time because my ex-wife let them get it at the Pediatrician's office when they went in for a regular check up. Within a couple of weeks they both had the flu. With my youngest who was 3 at the time his turned from the flu to RSV, then from RSV into a viral pneumonia. He ended up in the PICU for 4 days. He almost died. They said if he hadn't been transferred to the hospital we ended up at, from the one trying to discharge him where we took him in to be seen, that within 24 hours he would have been on a ventilator. It was the worst sickness he has endured in his life and he's 13 now. We've also had the flu itself go through the house 3 or so times, but it never turned into anything remotely near that. No flu shots for them since then. 

 

The ever widening gap between the Recovery vs Death rates with the rona reinforce my thoughts on it. Back when all of this was getting moving in April of last year the death rate for the infected was at 20.40%. Now, with millions more cases to go off of, that has dropped all the way down to 2.36%. The recovery rate gains a 100th of a % point every couple of days it seems. Hardly worthy of a national mandate to take a jab. And if they try? I will deal with that when it happens. I've already told my employer if that happens I will no longer be there. There's a reason that only 30-35% of the people have lined up to get it. It's not for lack of availability. There's a reason that doses are having to be tossed due to expiration as the desire to get it slows down. There's a reason that places like Florida and Texas are thriving. There's a reason you're seeing a lot of people migrating to those two states at this point. Regardless of how many of you view the vaccine on this board, there are many who don't share your stance. Just like many on here, in this small circle, don't share mine. You don't have to agree with me and I can respect you being on the other side. It really has no relevance to where I stand though. People can point their fingers, try to exclude me from whatever, call me whatever, make whatever claims they want, try to use whatever reasoning as to why I'm wrong, it won't change a thing. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BuffaloRebound]

I’m sure the same people up in arms over forcing players to get the vaccine were the same people defending Kaepernick’s right to kneel during national anthem.  

[YoloinOhio]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I’m sure the same people up in arms over forcing players to get the vaccine were the same people defending Kaepernick’s right to kneel during national anthem.  

I don’t really see the connection. The league is providing incentives to teams with a certain percentage of vaccinated players, which provides a significant competitive advantage and will lead to GMs making personnel decisions with vaccination as one factor. The kneeling thing had no such impact.

[wppete]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Id like to see Josh Allen challenge this idea. I’m willing to bet the Bills don’t cut Josh if he doesn’t get vaccinated. Let’s see how it plays out, should be entertaining. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Id like to see Josh Allen challenge this idea. I’m willing to bet the Bills don’t cut Josh if he doesn’t get vaccinated. Let’s see how it plays out, should be entertaining. 

Of course they wouldn’t and that’s  not at all but Beane implied in the hypothetical situation that he was presented with.

[wppete]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Of course they wouldn’t and that’s  not at all but Beane implied in the hypothetical situation that he was presented with.

I understand, I’d just would like to see Josh challenge this idea and hear the conversation that comes. I think it’s a valid conversation to have. Should be an entertaining training camp and start to the season that’s for sure. Looking forward to it….. I don’t think Josh will be the only high profile name in the NFL to challenge this. 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by wppete

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, wppete said:

I understand, I’d just would like to see Josh challenge this idea and hear the conversation that comes. I think it’s a valid conversation to have. Should be an entertaining training camp and start to the season that’s for sure. Looking forward to it.

 

 

Challenge the idea of cutting an unvaccinated player, if you are one player away from meeting the threshold to ensure your team can operate as normal and not be at a competitive disadvantage? Not sure why Allen would challenge that. As far as I know he isn’t opposed to the vaccine. 

[wppete]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Challenge the idea of cutting an unvaccinated player, if you are one player away from meeting the threshold to ensure your team can operate as normal and not be at a competitive disadvantage? Not sure why Allen would challenge that. As far as I know he isn’t opposed to the vaccine. 

Yes, will be interesting to see if a high profile player that doesn’t want to get vaccinated will be cut by a team because of his choice. It’s is a choice at the end of the day and vaccines are not mandatory. Will be interesting to see who these players are that make that choice and who the teams are that make the choice to cut them…. 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, wppete said:

Yes, will be interesting to see if a high profile player that doesn’t want to get vaccinated will be cut by a team because of his choice. It’s is a choice at the end of the day and vaccines are not mandatory. Will be interesting to see who these players are that make that choice and who the teams are that make the choice to cut them…. 

I think you can take it to the bank that no high profile player will be cut because of the choice to not get vaccinated. Again, the only thing surmised is the competitive advantage of being able to operate normally. I doubt any GM cares about each player’s personal choice. They only care if they can  operate in the most effective and efficient way and not be at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the league. Cutting a high profile player for this reason doesn’t achieve the second part of that, so it won’t happen. Could it happen to a non-core/fringe guy? That’s what is being discussed because it all comes back to whether there is or is not a competitive disadvantage. 

[wppete]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think you can take it to the bank that no high profile player will be cut because of the choice to not get vaccinated. Again, the only thing surmised is the competitive advantage of being able to operate normally. I doubt any GM cares about each player’s personal choice. They only care if they can  operate in the most effective and efficient way and not be at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the league. Cutting a high profile player for this reason doesn’t achieve the second part of that, so it won’t happen. Could it happen to a non-core/fringe guy? That’s what is being discussed because it all comes back to whether there is or is not a competitive disadvantage. 

I completely agree I don’t think it will happen. And that will be very telling if a situation like that arises with a high profile player. It’s about the bottom line and that is $$$. Conversation should be entertaining.