COVID-19 salary cap hurt Bills more than most

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They have some players like Poyer and Diggs where they can convert some of their base salary into a signing bonus and free up enough money to get through the season. The cap in the NFL is more like a suggestion at times. 

I mentioned Dawkins who is the best candidate for a restructuring.  Poyer only had one more season on his deal so that would require an extension even if it’s a fake/voidable one.  I don’t think Diggs is a guy I’d approach for a restructure as I think he’d require a bump to do anything.  We easily could move a little of Williams’ cap hit down the road, but not much.  There really aren’t a lot of great candidates.

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I mentioned Dawkins who is the best candidate for a restructuring.  Poyer only had one more season on his deal so that would require an extension even if it’s a fake/voidable one.  I don’t think Diggs is a guy I’d approach for a restructure as I think he’d require a bump to do anything.  We easily could move a little of Williams’ cap hit down the road, but not much.  There really aren’t a lot of great candidates.

I think they restructured White and Dawkins deal, There was an article mentioning how much money the Bills could free up redoing deals and the names mentioned were Dawkins, White, Diggs and Poyer. The Bills can create wiggle room if needed.

[Ya Digg?]

46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That answer is simple and tangible.

 

Cap dollars.

 

They chose to create the dead money........they felt it was necessary........fine.

 

But it was a CHOICE.

 

They also chose to sink about $80M in cap space into Star Lotulelei and Trent Murphy with those deals in 2018..........that was a big chunk of change for a couple duds..........most of which they could have rolled over and had available to spend this offseason.   

 

These were Bills choices.

 

There were lot's of smaller mistakes that added up as well.........giving Corey Coleman $3.5M for 10 days of TC........Paying Quinton Spain $5M to go away after re-signing him.......overspending on reserves like Spencer Long.........and of course the low impact DL signings of last offseason(and choosing to retain both Addison and Butler again).

 

But the primary culprit for the Bills relative lack of cap room were the very impactful $ decisions of 2018 offseason.

 

The pandemic was not a primary reason for the Bills lack of flexibility...........every team had their salary cap affected by the same amount.

 

The Bills could have chosen to push debt down the line if they felt that was going to push them over the top.   The reality is that the Bills weren't going to be in a better cap position to improve themselves in free agency than the rest of the teams in the league.   The other teams would have had the same amount MORE to spend.   It's not that complicated.

Sorry I’m still confused, you’re explaining yourself pretty poorly when it comes to taking in that dead money. They intentionally took that dead money hit so they would have more money for future years. If they would have pushed that money further down the road as you suggest, they would’ve had even less money to spend. The other points you made in hindsight don’t look good, although some of those situations like Spain didn’t seem questionable when they gave him the contract 

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I think they restructured White and Dawkins deal, There was an article mentioning how much money the Bills could free up redoing deals and the names mentioned were Dawkins, White, Diggs and Poyer. The Bills can create wiggle room if needed.

According to Spotrac they already did White’s, but they aren’t showing Dawkins’ as done.  Sometimes those sites are behind getting info, so it is very possible that it already happened with Dawkins. 

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

According to Spotrac they already did White’s, but they aren’t showing Dawkins’ as done.  Sometimes those sites are behind getting info, so it is very possible that it already happened with Dawkins. 

I could be wrong but I remember hearing that they did both Dawkins and White but maybe they just did White? Either way Spotrac is not reflective of that so if they had Dawkins done or do Dawkins that should be the breathing room the team needs.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

Are 31 other GMs legitimately one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl campaign this year?

No but many are very close. and some don’t have the rookie qb contract
 

And if many are slashing to get under the cap, we have less competition to sign these guys than ever and were better positioned than many to benefit from that if we choose. 

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That answer is simple and tangible.

 

Cap dollars.

 

They chose to create the dead money........they felt it was necessary........fine.

 

But it was a CHOICE.

 

They also chose to sink about $80M in cap space into Star Lotulelei and Trent Murphy with those deals in 2018..........that was a big chunk of change for a couple duds..........most of which they could have rolled over and had available to spend this offseason.   

 

These were Bills choices.

 

There were lot's of smaller mistakes that added up as well.........giving Corey Coleman $3.5M for 10 days of TC........Paying Quinton Spain $5M to go away after re-signing him.......overspending on reserves like Spencer Long.........and of course the low impact DL signings of last offseason(and choosing to retain both Addison and Butler again).

 

But the primary culprit for the Bills relative lack of cap room were the very impactful $ decisions of 2018 offseason.

 

The pandemic was not a primary reason for the Bills lack of flexibility...........every team had their salary cap affected by the same amount.

 

The Bills could have chosen to push debt down the line if they felt that was going to push them over the top.   The reality is that the Bills weren't going to be in a better cap position to improve themselves in free agency than the rest of the teams in the league.   The other teams would have had the same amount MORE to spend.   It's not that complicated.

I legitimately do not follow the logic at all as it pertains to dead cap in 2018. Everything else is sound. 
 

I’m not disputing it was a choice... your typical argument around the dead cap is that they chose to do that rather than try and be competitive... never argued that. 
 

What you tried to tell us earlier is that somehow biting the bullet in 2018 by incurring significant dead cap for 1 season in order to avoid having significant expenditures in future seasons actually KEPT the Bills from being able to spend money this off-season? How does dead money... only on the books for 2018 (rather than keeping those contracts rolling in future seasons) hurt them in 2021? 
 

The free agent stuff is separate... you’re weirdly blending the two... 

Edited May 3, 2021 by JGMcD2

[TroutDog]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s great, but he’s gotta go find some cap space.  We are pretty tapped out otherwise.  The Bills are sitting on $3.7M in space now per Spotrac.  Rookies will drop that to $2.5M.  Then after cut downs when full rosters and practice squad players have to be included, that number would go to $0 or less.  Plus then there is space for replacements for IRed players that has to be cleared.  I think a restructure of Dawkins gets us through this season with no additional spending of note, but anything else is going to require clearing some space. 

Too many teams have proven that the salary cap construct is a joke…there are myriad ways to manipulate it…and I’m sure Beane et al know how to manage it. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, TroutDog said:

Too many teams have proven that the salary cap construct is a joke…there are myriad ways to manipulate it…and I’m sure Beane et al know how to manage it. 

Cap hits can be manipulated to a degree, but every dollar paid gets accounted for eventually.  And some ways of doing so can bite a team.  

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Sorry I’m still confused, you’re explaining yourself pretty poorly when it comes to taking in that dead money. They intentionally took that dead money hit so they would have more money for future years. If they would have pushed that money further down the road as you suggest, they would’ve had even less money to spend. The other points you made in hindsight don’t look good, although some of those situations like Spain didn’t seem questionable when they gave him the contract 

 

 

 

The way the cap works is that unused cap dollars can be rolled forward to the next year........and the next year......etc..........so money spent or "killed" in 2018 is cap room they do not have now that they could have had.    The two are tied together because the players whose money they had to bury were replaced with a garbage class in UFA.    Lotulelei, Murphy, Eifert, Bodine, Newhouse..........just atrocious.  

 

I'm pointing this out because the OP is trying to create a narrative that the reason the Bills didn't have the money to outmaneuver the rest of the league in UFA this offseason is because they were disproportionately harmed by the pandemic.    They were, in fact,  PROPORTIONATELY harmed........same amount of cap space as everyone else.

 

  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I legitimately do not follow the logic at all as it pertains to dead cap in 2018. Everything else is sound. 
 

I’m not disputing it was a choice... your typical argument around the dead cap is that they chose to do that rather than try and be competitive... never argued that. 
 

What you tried to tell us earlier is that somehow biting the bullet in 2018 by incurring significant dead cap for 1 season in order to avoid having significant expenditures in future seasons actually KEPT the Bills from being able to spend money this off-season? How does dead money... only on the books for 2018 (rather than keeping those contracts rolling in future seasons) hurt them in 2021? 
 

The free agent stuff is separate... you’re weirdly blending the two... 

 

 

The money spent on Star, Murphy, Eifert, Bodine and Newhouse was cap space they do not have now and they've gotten almost nothing out of those guys.

 

You can roll over unused cap space every year.........so every cap decision carries a future impact.  

 

That's why you don't sign a 30+ year old Eric Wood to an extension the summer before his UFA when you know he's highly unlikely to leave Buffalo.   It's why you don't just toss Shady McCoy a couple extra million to keep him happy that same summer.   When Kelvin Benjamin shows a lack of effort and performance in half of a season in 2017 maybe you should move him rather than pay him $10M in 2018 and quietly cut him half way thru the year.

 

Choices.

 

They made a lot of decisions that nickeled and dimed them into the cap position they are in.    It really added up to A LOT in-season in 2017 and the offseason of 2018........creating dead money and acquiring dead money walking.    They also made a lot of good personnel decisions.    But their cap issues trace back to the first 12 months of Beane's money decisions.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I'm pointing this out because the OP is trying to create a narrative that the reason the Bills didn't have the money to outmaneuver the rest of the league in UFA this offseason is because they were disproportionately harmed by the pandemic.    They were, in fact,  PROPORTIONATELY harmed........same amount of cap space as everyone else.

 

That's not really my point and it may be my fault for not expressing my thoughts clearly enough.  The Bills are not disproportionately affected money wise, every team is down the same amount of cap dollars, my point is the the timing of this salary cap hit is much worse for the Bills than it is for most other teams in the league.  I believe that we are a piece or two on defense away from making a legitimate Super Bowl run.  That missing $25 million in Beane's pocket to spend on those free agent pieces may be the difference between winning a Lombardi this year or coming in 2nd or 3rd again.

 

By comparison, the Jets are not unduly affected by having $25 million less this year.  They are in a rebuild and they can add a free agent this year or next year and it's not going to really effect them much in the big picture.   Getting a key free agent next year won't help the Bills pushing for a championship this year.  It's a timing issue.

 

🍻

[BarleyNY]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The money spent on Star, Murphy, Eifert, Bodine and Newhouse was cap space they do not have now and they've gotten almost nothing out of those guys.

 

You can roll over unused cap space every year.........so every cap decision carries a future impact.  

 

That's why you don't sign a 30+ year old Eric Wood to an extension the summer before his UFA when you know he's highly unlikely to leave Buffalo.   It's why you don't just toss Shady McCoy a couple extra million to keep him happy that same summer.   When Kelvin Benjamin shows a lack of effort and performance in half of a season in 2017 maybe you should move him rather than pay him $10M in 2018 and quietly cut him half way thru the year.

 

Choices.

 

They made a lot of decisions that nickeled and dimed them into the cap position they are in.    It really added up to A LOT in-season in 2017 and the offseason of 2018........creating dead money and acquiring dead money walking.    They also made a lot of good personnel decisions.    But their cap issues trace back to the first 12 months of Beane's money decisions.

Well, you’re not wrong.  I understand why they overpaid a few of their FAs early on.  They needed to get things turned around and no one was coming here without a premium.  I get the Morse contract in that context, but there have been some awful ones given too - like Star’s $50M/5 and Kroft’s 3/$19M for example - that are indefensible. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Well, you’re not wrong.  I understand why they overpaid a few of their FAs early on.  They needed to get things turned around and no one was coming here without a premium.  I get the Morse contract in that context, but there have been some awful ones given too - like Star’s $50M/5 and Kroft’s 3/$19M for example - that are indefensible. 

 

 

Yeah,  I'm not saying Beane is an idiot.   I'm saying he made choices.   Every GM makes mistakes.   Beane made a ton of them early and some of that was, as you said,  the fact that the destination was not appealing.    That was part of the risk of tearing down the roster rather than trying to add to it though.........do you keep a Dareus for $6M non-guaranteed base salary for another year?   Or do you go out and spend a bunch of money to replace him?  He was playing outstanding 1T for them.   They chose to deal him and replace.......and that got EXPENSIVE.   Between Dareus dead money and Lotulelei's pay they have expended over $60M in cap room in 3 years for a position that only gets 45% of the snaps........and they have stunk at the position and still aren't done paying Star.       

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The money spent on Star, Murphy, Eifert, Bodine and Newhouse was cap space they do not have now and they've gotten almost nothing out of those guys.

 

You can roll over unused cap space every year.........so every cap decision carries a future impact.  

 

That's why you don't sign a 30+ year old Eric Wood to an extension the summer before his UFA when you know he's highly unlikely to leave Buffalo.   It's why you don't just toss Shady McCoy a couple extra million to keep him happy that same summer.   When Kelvin Benjamin shows a lack of effort and performance in half of a season in 2017 maybe you should move him rather than pay him $10M in 2018 and quietly cut him half way thru the year.

 

Choices.

 

They made a lot of decisions that nickeled and dimed them into the cap position they are in.    It really added up to A LOT in-season in 2017 and the offseason of 2018........creating dead money and acquiring dead money walking.    They also made a lot of good personnel decisions.    But their cap issues trace back to the first 12 months of Beane's money decisions.

Big reach.... how do you know they’re not in a worse position if they don’t take that dead cap hit? 
 

They likely are... you would have guys like Cordy Glenn and Dareus just coming off the books this season... or a dead cap hit for cutting them... 

[Boxcar]

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

you don’t think 31 other GMs are saying the same thing about the extra $25m they could’ve spent and having to likewise readjust spending plans too?

There were sooooo many teams in a worse spot. How do we know Beane didn't try to get guys like Lawson? There are 31 other teams in the league who are also trying to sign those players.

[JGMcD2]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You can roll over unused cap space every year.........so every cap decision carries a future impact.

This is also great in theory until they don't use cap space and then you accuse them of mishandling the cap by not spending it in an attempt to be competitive.

 

 

[JaCrispy]

I agree...it was absolutely the worst timing for the Bills... I feel like we were cheated out of our super bowl window...

Edited May 4, 2021 by JaCrispy

[BornAgainBillsFan]

On 5/3/2021 at 1:36 PM, RiotAct said:

I saw a post on here a few days ago that said great teams don’t have a “window” per se... they build a winning culture where great players want to come play here, AND draft smartly, so even after our stars of today leave through retirement or free agency, we can easily fill in the holes through the pipeline.

 

I think that’s what Beane and Mcdermott are truly building here.

 

Until 20-25% of the salary cap goes to your QB. That's what closes the SB window, FAST!!