So, what's the plan at RB?

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

If you listen closely, Beane will usually drop breadcrumbs that, combined with his actions, amount to a pretty good trail indicating his thinking

 

In Beane's post-season presser, he said straight out:

"I think it's so unfair to look at the running backs to point blame on the running game," he said. "Running the football is very complex and it's obviously the o-line, it's the tight ends, it's the receivers and if one guy doesn't make his block the play's probably dead."

 

That was a big breadcrumb pointing at his belief that many of the major problems with the running game lay elsewhere than with the backs.  He didn't totally absolve the backs: "I'm not saying there's no blame - sometimes the running back missed the hole", but he seemed to be identifying 1) blocking, both OL and TE 2) scheme 3) practice priorities "it's one of those things you got to practice, you got to emphasize and you got to work on it"

 

Then let's look at the Bills personnel changes:

-added 7 OLmen, plus 1 back from IR (3 FA, 3 draft picks, 1 UDFA)

-added 2 TE, plus 1 back from IR (1 FA, 1 draft pick)

-added 1 speedy RB (FA)

 

That indicates that their 2nd and 3rd and deep dive looks into the season matched his presser saying it's so unfair to look at the the running backs as to blame for the running game.  

 

Now, he also said frankly that none of our backs are a home-run threat, and that if you see an RB in the first who is a home run threat you take them.  But by their actions, whatever the price was to go up after Etienne, he clearly didn't think the juice was worth the squeeze for that particular guy.  If he fell to us, he'd take him, if they wanted (say) our 3rd this year and a 2nd next year, that was "Nope!".

 

So to answer your question, the plan at RB is probably to hope Breida is useful as a speed back, and to dress whichever 2 of the 3 backs looks best in camp along with Taiwan Jones (who would play RB in an emergency, and to hope a combination of improved guard play (either from guys who were here or new guys), improved TE blocking, and improved scheme and focus in practice give us a more reliable run game.

 

And it probably will against most teams.  Whether it will be enough against teams with the best DL remains TBD

 

I'm not sure why Beane doesn't consider a RB with 4.38 speed to be a homerun hitter.

 

8 hours ago, klos63 said:

The plan is Singletary, Moss, Brieda and Williams. The fact that you're not sold on them is totally irrelevant.

With no crowd noise it was much easier to pass, especially with our offensive talent. If you can throw all day without issue(Seattle game), why bother running. I think we will be forced to run more as crowd noise on the road will make things a little more difficult for offenses around the league

 

 

It doesn't appear looking at the stats that passing changed much from 2019 to 2020.

 

 

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

The fumble everyone is talking about happened early in the 49ers game near the goal line. He didnt get injured on the play. Shoot he might not have been touched. He was looking to make a move before securing the handoff. Pretty sure it was incorrectly credited to Josh.

 

A muffed exchange between the QB and RB always gets charged to the QB.  But that was on Moss.

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

The fumble everyone is talking about happened early in the 49ers game near the goal line. He didnt get injured on the play. Shoot he might not have been touched. He was looking to make a move before securing the handoff. Pretty sure it was incorrectly credited to Josh.

Aha. It was credited to Allen ...

[hondo in seattle]

Kiper says it's a "head-scratcher" that we didn't find a RB on Day 2 or 3.   But we already have Day 2 backs on our roster now.  The elite backs were gone by the time we picked at #30.  

 

Motor says he'll be a different back this year.

 

Some say Breida has untapped potential.

 

A couple posters think Moss will come into his own in his sophomore year.

 

And the trenches set insist our OL will be better this year, giving Moss & Motor the space they need to be effective.

 

I hope somebody's right because our offense was one dimensional last year.

[machine gun kelly]

I say we just go 5 wide 100% of the time.  Zero running game except Josh, or declare Spencer and have him pummel people.

 

im kidding.  It will get handled.

[Einstein's Dog]

Ignoring the shiny object of RB was the right way to go.  I was glad to see the temptation removed by a couple of teams that couldn't resist. 

 

If the objective is to be good for an extended period of time the trenches was the way to go this year.  Just look at how much it had cost the Bills in previous years just for backup DL's, the $8 million Jefferson, the $12m Murphy, the $10m Addison.  Rotational, depth, d linemen are $8-10m apiece.  A free agent RB is like $3m.

 

Plus, the timing was off.   Next year would be a much better year for considering an RB if improvement isn't made.  Singletary is only 2 years in on a 4 year rookie deal.

 

[hondo in seattle]

5 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I say we just go 5 wide 100% of the time.  Zero running game except Josh, or declare Spencer and have him pummel people.

 

im kidding.  It will get handled.

 

I'm sure it'll 'get handled.'  But let me fantasize for a second as I did in another thread.  Imagine OJ or Thurman in the backfield.  Or even Freddy or Cribbs.  

 

Kansas City won't be able to line up in a 4-1-6.  It's a pick-your-poison scenario.  DCs can't sell out.  A franchise back doesn't just make the running attack better, he makes the passing attack better by forcing teams to respect the run.  

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[machine gun kelly]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm sure it'll 'get handled.'  But let me fantasize for a second as I did in another thread.  Imagine OJ or Thurman in the backfield.  Or even Freddy or Cribbs.  

 

Kansas City won't be able to line up in a 4-1-6.  It's a pick-your-poison scenario.  DCs can't sell out.  A franchise back doesn't just make the running attack better, he makes the passing attack better by forcing teams to respect the run.  

 

All good Hondo.  (BTW love the new SWAT so I always think of you).  I’m more of the Earl Campbell, Walter Payton dream just pounding people, but then again not 1978.  
 

[junior]

14 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Right now the Bills have:

 

Singletary: I'm not sold on him.  

Moss: Also not sold on him.

Antonio Williams: Looked ok in spot duty, but only 12 carries.  Can he block?  Not sold on him.

Wade: Intriguing non football guy. Fast but old and still learning the game. Likely stuck on the practice squad again.

Breida:  JAG.

Taiwan Jones: Less than JAG

 

So far no UDFA RB's added.  

 

So what's the plan?  Will Oline pickups improve the run blocking?  Will they grab another team's castoff? Is there a Fred Jackson type UDFA just waiting to be signed?

 

 

 

They might have open tryouts before the season, if you'd like to give it a go!

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

We have Moss for 3 more years

Singletary for 2 more years

Breida for 1 year

 

Im pretty sure that’s accurate 

 

 

Completely inaccurate, actually. Could be right or wildly wrong on any of them.

 

Here's how it actually goes:

 

Moss is under contract for 3 more years at the moment.

 

Singletary is presently under contract for two more years.

 

And Breida is here on what is right now a one-year contract.

 

How long they'll be here is unknown.

[hondo in seattle]

Just now, machine gun kelly said:

All good Hondo.  (BTW love the new SWAT so I always think of you).  I’m more of the Earl Campbell, Walter Payton dream just pounding people, but then again not 1978.  
 

 

Funny - SWAT is where my nickname comes from.  My HS head coach used to mispronounce my last name, calling me something the first syllable of "Hondo."  Another player added the -do.  Embarrassingly, there was a drill we did where my form was a little goofy (some might say not very masculine though I would strongly disagree) and it became known as the Hondo Drill.  The Assistant HC made me lead the drill since it was named after me.  Since I was leading it, I refused to actually do it.  Screw 'em, dammit, if they're going to laugh at my pigeon legs!

 

Given that defensive speed is more important than size these days, and LB coverage skills are arguably more important than tackling skills, I think a back like Earl Campbell would be a wrecking ball.  

 

If you're a DC facing us, do you blitz from the outside when Earl might come crashing up the middle?  Do you load the box to stop Earl when Josh is slinging it all over the field?  There are no good answers.

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Completely inaccurate, actually. Could be right or wildly wrong on any of them.

 

Here's how it actually goes:

 

Moss is under contract for 3 more years at the moment.

 

Singletary is presently under contract for two more years.

 

And Breida is here on what is right now a one-year contract.

 

How long they'll be here is unknown.

I thought that was pretty much what he posted/meant. lol

[machine gun kelly]

15 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Funny - SWAT is where my nickname comes from.  My HS head coach used to mispronounce my last name, calling me something the first syllable of "Hondo."  Another player added the -do.  Embarrassingly, there was a drill we did where my form was a little goofy (some might say not very masculine though I would strongly disagree) and it became known as the Hondo Drill.  The Assistant HC made me lead the drill since it was named after me.  Since I was leading it, I refused to actually do it.  Screw 'em, dammit, if they're going to laugh at my pigeon legs!

 

Given that defensive speed is more important than size these days, and LB coverage skills are arguably more important than tackling skills, I think a back like Earl Campbell would be a wrecking ball.  

 

If you're a DC facing us, do you blitz from the outside when Earl might come crashing up the middle?  Do you load the box to stop Earl when Josh is slinging it all over the field?  There are no good answers.

FWIW, they just revealed in the last episode the mom of hondo told her son, when he was young he was so independent he would say to mama (his word not mine in the episode) Hon do it. Eventually his father started calling him Hondo.  Loved the old show although before my time so saw the reruns of you grew up in Buffalo on Ch. 29 like Star Trek, the Brady Bunch and Gilligans Island.  The new one is cool and thanks for sharing brother.

 

As far as Campbell, he’s make D. Henry look weak compared to his power and explosiveness back in the day.  A man amongst boys.

[TheBrownBear]

Moss looked good to me down the stretch after he shook off his early season injuries.  I think he's fine as our workhorse back.  Breida and Singletary provide a change of pace.  The position is obviously not a strength, but I think we are okay.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

As Buffalo Bills fans, we have a history of all-time great running backs (Cookie Gilchrist, OJ Simpson, Thurman Thomas).  Even during the playoff drought, we had two potential future Hall of Famers on the roster (Marshawn Lynch, LeSean McCoy), a couple first round picks (Willis McGahee, CJ Spiller) and the extremely popular Fred Jackson.  Then you have Travis Henry, who ran for 1400 and 1300+ in back to back years.

 

It's tough for people in this city to accept the facts, because for so many years THIS POSITION was pretty much all we had on offense.

Outside of fantasy football, the running back position just isn't that important anymore.

 

You need to go back 7 years before you find a Super Bowl Champion where an individual running back (Seattle/Lynch) was the primary attack of the offense.  Then probably another 10 years before you find one again (Pittsburgh/Jerome Bettis).  The Patriots dominated the last two decades with a by-committee approach, where backs are expendable and exchangeable depending on gameplan.  The RBs with the rings over the last 20-25 years are guys like LeGarrette Blount, Damien Williams, CJ Anderson and Sony Michel.

 

The guys the Bills have on their roster can be effective, with better blocking up-front and a better gameplan for getting them involved.  I'm not worried about this position in the slightest.

 

 

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.  We've been pretty spoiled at the RB position over the years so maybe we have gotten a bit spoiled.

 

I would love to see a Venn diagram of posters that think Motor is total garbage and ones that think Williams is the answer...I think it would be a single circle.  Williams might very well have some potential but the TBD trend of seeing a guy that did something in garbage time or a meaningless game and then anointing him as a savior is really weird to me.

[McBean]

Feed Breida.

 

 

[nucci]

14 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Right now the Bills have:

 

Singletary: I'm not sold on him.  

Moss: Also not sold on him.

Antonio Williams: Looked ok in spot duty, but only 12 carries.  Can he block?  Not sold on him.

Wade: Intriguing non football guy. Fast but old and still learning the game. Likely stuck on the practice squad again.

Breida:  JAG.

Taiwan Jones: Less than JAG

 

So far no UDFA RB's added.  

 

So what's the plan?  Will Oline pickups improve the run blocking?  Will they grab another team's castoff? Is there a Fred Jackson type UDFA just waiting to be signed?

 

 

well, it's going to be Singletary and Moss disirregardless if you're sold. OL needs to block better and Moss was looking really good before he got hurt

[blacklabel]

It's not all on the backs. The OL struggled to create lanes in nearly every game. The run game as a whole needs to improve and I think it will. They shuffled the interior OL almost all season. Ford went out early, Feliciano didn't start playing until nearly mid-season, Morse missed some time, and it took Boettger a while to settle in. This year they have a full training camp and preseason to solidify the OL. 

 

Moss had some hurdles his rookie year. Got hurt a couple times, benched because of a fumblerooski, etc. I'm sure he's anxious to get back out there and show what he can do. Singletary as well. Both players have solid attributes and I don't think you give up on them this early, especially if they used a pair of 3rd round picks, they expect guys drafted that high to stick and produce. 

 

But homeboy ain't sold on them so uh...I dunno. Tell 'em they're all fired I guess?

[hondo in seattle]

17 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

FWIW, they just revealed in the last episode the mom of hondo told her son, when he was young he was so independent he would say to mama (his word not mine in the episode) Hon do it. Eventually his father started calling him Hondo.  Loved the old show although before my time so saw the reruns of you grew up in Buffalo on Ch. 29 like Star Trek, the Brady Bunch and Gilligans Island.  The new one is cool and thanks for sharing brother.

 

As far as Campbell, he’s make D. Henry look weak compared to his power and explosiveness back in the day.  A man amongst boys.

 

Thanks for the Hon-Do-It story.  It's kind-of the origin story of my own nickname.  Cool stuff.  My wife -  who controls the remote - really liked Shemar Moore on Criminal Minds.  Maybe I should convince her to try the new SWAT.

 

I recently read that there are 3 or more LBs on the field only about 24% of the time in 2020.  Back in 2008, that number was over 50%.  Back in Jim Brown's day, I'm guessing it was close to 100%.

 

Today there are more CBs on the field.  And the LBs who are out there are smaller than the LBs of Dick Butkus' time.     Today, once a back is past the DL, he's facing smaller, though quicker, guys than the backs of old.  If Campbell was a man amongst boys back in the 70s, that would be even more true today.

 

I think the OJs and Barry Sanders of the world are super fun to watch.  But given what today's defenses are built like, a good power back would be a great addition to the Bills.  

More

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

As Buffalo Bills fans, we have a history of all-time great running backs (Cookie Gilchrist, OJ Simpson, Thurman Thomas).  Even during the playoff drought, we had two potential future Hall of Famers on the roster (Marshawn Lynch, LeSean McCoy), a couple first round picks (Willis McGahee, CJ Spiller) and the extremely popular Fred Jackson.  Then you have Travis Henry, who ran for 1400 and 1300+ in back to back years.

 

It's tough for people in this city to accept the facts, because for so many years THIS POSITION was pretty much all we had on offense.

Outside of fantasy football, the running back position just isn't that important anymore.

 

You need to go back 7 years before you find a Super Bowl Champion where an individual running back (Seattle/Lynch) was the primary attack of the offense.  Then probably another 10 years before you find one again (Pittsburgh/Jerome Bettis).  The Patriots dominated the last two decades with a by-committee approach, where backs are expendable and exchangeable depending on gameplan.  The RBs with the rings over the last 20-25 years are guys like LeGarrette Blount, Damien Williams, CJ Anderson and Sony Michel.

 

The guys the Bills have on their roster can be effective, with better blocking up-front and a better gameplan for getting them involved.  I'm not worried about this position in the slightest.

 

 

Yeah, it's interesting how many good-to-great running backs the Bills have had over the years and how few good/great quarterbacks.

 

If in today's game I could choose Josh or Thurman, I'd choose Josh.  No doubt.  But how fun would it be to have both?

[34-78-83]

this thread is frustrating to read. Just keep yammering and yelling in to the wind for more or "better" rb's to replace the ones we already have, and don't listen to the sound and well thought out takes by many of us as to why the backs we have are plenty good for our scheme and what the Bills are trying to accomplish on offense. Moving on.

[mjt328]

12 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.  We've been pretty spoiled at the RB position over the years so maybe we have gotten a bit spoiled.

 

I would love to see a Venn diagram of posters that think Motor is total garbage and ones that think Williams is the answer...I think it would be a single circle.  Williams might very well have some potential but the TBD trend of seeing a guy that did something in garbage time or a meaningless game and then anointing him as a savior is really weird to me.

 

Everybody would love to have 22 superstars, backed up by incredible depth at every position.

But with the salary cap, teams need to prioritize the areas they consider most important.

 

For example, this draft really showed how much Sean McDermott's defense emphasizes the D-Line over the secondary.  In this kind of zone scheme, they don't see the need to obtain multiple lock-down corners.  With enough pressure, they are confident Levi Wallace/Dane Jackson can do the job.

 

Outside of a few exceptions (Tennessee for instance), I believe that RB is also way low on that list.