1. Chiefs 2. Browns 3. Bills

[GoBills808]

Also that site gives Bills to miss playoffs +236 and if Browns have a superior roster...

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

Is getting OBJ back actually a good thing for the Browns ? 

I also wonder if that's a net positive.  There is no denying that a healthy OBJ is an elite weapon but one of the Browns bigger problems was lack of identity on offense.  They wanted to air it out and get OBJ 10 targets a game and they got shredded.  The Browns finally found some rhythm taking the ball out of Baker's hands and establishing the run the run game.   With OBJ back in the lineup I think they will feel the pressure again to force balls his way and get away from what was working.  I remain unconvinced that Baker is a guy that you want to put the game in his hands.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am actually surprised that Vegas has the Ravens ahead of us seeing as their schedule should be harder than last year, they did not get any major upgrades, and they will still be in a rough division.

 

I rank the AFC top 5 as:

 

1. Chiefs

2. Bills

3. Browns

4. Ravens

5. Colts

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

 

I could have added some more responses from above as well, but if your only argument is that Josh Allen is better than Baker Mayfield as the reason the Bills are better than the Browns, I think that is flawed reasoning.  It's not just about the QB.

 

Is Mahomes better than Brady?  I guess the Chiefs must have won the Super Bowl last year then.  The QB is the most important piece of the puzzle, but not the whole puzzle.  Football is still a team sport.  How many Super Bowls does reigning MVP Aaron Rodgers have?  Five...Six?

 

 

 

I'm as big a homer as anyone on this board and I knew this wouldn't be a popular opinion here.   I stand by it though. 

 

People are sleeping on the Browns just like people were sleeping on the Bills based on how bad they were for years and years.  The Browns have difference makers at every position.  Baker Mayfied isn't as good a QB as Allen, not even close, but Baker doesn't have to be for the Browns to win.  If Mayfield continues to play ball control offense with that running game and an improved defense, they Browns are legit.

 

Brady has won seven Super Bowls and could have easily won 9 Mahomes isn’t in his class 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean we are in a thread that proposes they are the second best team in the conference🤷‍♂️

So you should double the odds?  Why would anyone bet that when the actual odds are almost half of what you propose.  
 

because you propose them in a certain thread?  Do you realize how nonsensical that is?

[Another Fan]

An unpopular opinion here I'm sure but even in 2019 I'm not sure how far apart the Browns and Bills were really.  The Browns beat the Bills that year.  Yeah the Browns were 6-10 and the Bills were 10-6 but the Browns had a much harder schedule that year.  

 

I see them (the Bills and Browns) as about equal strength today.  You can make an argument for either team.  My guess would be if the teams played each other twice it'd be one win and one loss for each team 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Another Fan

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am actually surprised that Vegas has the Ravens ahead of us seeing as their schedule should be harder than last year, they did not get any major upgrades, and they will still be in a rough division.

 It was also a month ago, but I’m with ya. Maybe the fact that the pats had spent so much money and it was inevitable that they would add a QB at some point had something to do with it.  Ya got me.  
 

 

[Nihilarian]

While all opponents got better in the AFC East!  So did the AFC, North, South, West. 

 

The 11-5 Browns won't have a cakewalk through the Steelers 12-4, Ravens 11-5, Bengals.

 

Kansas City won't have a cakewalk through the Chargers, Raiders, Broncos.

 

The Titans and Colts both finished 11-5 in 2020 and the Jaguars just got a whole lot better. NVM the Texans though in the AFC South. 

 

It's a different year with less Covid and many teams improved. The Chargers and Raiders could knock the Chiefs off their proverbial throne. 

 

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the Colts with Carson Wentz then Cleveland...after all, it is the Cleveland Browns. Also, the Chargers with Herbert. JMO

[QLBillsFan]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The Browns couldn’t beat the Chiefs playing Chad Henne at QB

I would argue that the Higgins goal line fumble cost the Browns that game. Chiefs played 1 really good game of the last 6 they played to end the season. And that was vs Bills.

Browns are absolutely legit. Chiefs reset OL but in terms of continuity the Bills and Browns are ahead on that front. Each year is different but the Browns are a contender on par w Bills. Ravens, Titans, then Chargers as dark horse. 

[Arm of Harm]

38 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

The fact that Josh is THAT much better than Baker isn’t everything but it’s the most important factor as to why they won’t eclipse Buffalo, likely ever.

 

Browns came close to beating Henne...

 

Meanwhile how did they look in their two games vs the Ravens who the Bills completely smothered defensively.

 

In two games vs the Ravens, the Browns gave up 85 points and lost both.

The Bills allowed 3 points, the Browns 42.5 per game, so forgive me for thinking this entire argument is a giant steaming pile of garbage basing it on the fact they signed an underachieving DE and drafted a bunch of unproven players just like everybody else did. As if them filling holes in the draft is somehow better than the Bills addressing their need at the edge.

 

If you’re going to cherry pick how they did vs the Chiefs, while still LOSING, without a full game of Mahomes, then you can’t neglect how they got completely owned by the Ravens while Buffalo did the polar opposite not even allowing a single TD.

 

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Mahomes played until late in the 3rd quarter against the Browns. The Browns defense did a much better job of stopping Mahomes than the Bills defense would do a week later. 

 

More generally, the Bills defense of 2020 did not play well against good passing offenses, except the game against Justin Herbert and the Chargers. The defensive collapse in the AFC Championship Game was part of a larger pattern. 

 

The Bills defense did a good job against Lamar Jackson and the Ravens, which as you point out is more than can be said of the Cleveland defense. The Bills defense is apparently better than the Browns defense at stopping running QBs. 

 

If your goal is to win the Super Bowl which would you rather have: a defense like the Bills, which can stop running QBs but is vulnerable to good passing attacks? Or a defense like the Browns, which would appear to be vulnerable to running QBs but reasonably good at stopping good passing attacks? 

 

I believe the road to the Super Bowl goes through Kansas City. If you can't stop their passing attack you will not beat them, and will not make it to the Super Bowl. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

56 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Kpassagnon signed a two year contract with the Saints worth $4.5 million.  

 

Wilson went to the Jags on a one year contract worth $2 million

 

Okafor played 26% of the snaps last year, not 40-50%, and spent big chunks of 2019 and 2020 on IR.  Maybe Andy is looking for more durability. 

 

Breeland is still a free agent two months into free agency in a position of high demand.  I think that says something about Breeland.

 

Respectfully Hap, I don't think any of these players are key loses to the Chiefs and needed to be pointed out in the OP.  If you feel that my omitting these four players from the KC side of the equation undermines my entire position, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

🍻

 

 

 

Respectfully, Inigo, they were all starters or saw significant time for the Chiefs last year, including at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, Sammy Watkins was the #5 receiver on the Chiefs in yards, targets, and receptions, and #4 in yards per reception.  If contract length and cost is your yardstick, Watkins signed for 1 year, $5M, which is kinda chump-ish change for a "key" WR and puts him at #18 for a FA WR this year, I believe.

 

So you want to argue that losing one #4 or #5 WR contribution is "key", but 4 starters on D including a CB, aren't? That's headscratching, frankly.

 

The point isn't what they signed for or whether they're unsigned.  Josh Norman is still unsigned and it's a legit question for people to look at the Bills and say "how have they replaced him?" Breeland, Wilson, Kpassagnon, and Okafor were taking a lot of defensive snaps at the end of the season/playoffs.  If you want to be seen as making a cogent argument that the Chiefs have improved - you need to discuss how two DE who were taking ~50% of the snaps at the end of the season, a MLB who took 70% of the snaps in 2 playoff games, and a starting CB taking close to 100% of the snaps have been replaced.  I'm sure Andy wants better players, who are they, and where/how did he get them?

 

We can "agree to disagree" if you like, but only after I point out that an argument about why the Chiefs have gotten better, which claims their #4 or #5 WR is "their only significant loss" while overlooking significant defensive losses in FA is pretty shallow. 

 

I'm betting now that if I dug into what you have to say about the Browns I'd find equivalent gaps.

 

 

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

The bills will have a harder time taking the division this year.  Pats and Dolphins are arming themselves.  

[Putin]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I rank the AFC top 5 as:

 

1. Chiefs

2. Bills

3. Browns

4. Ravens

5. Colts

I don’t know how I feel about the Colts ,

I’m not just going to assume  because Carson Wentz is reunited with Frank he will return as the same QB before he got hurt during that MVP/SB run ..

but I do agree with the top 4 

[MAJBobby]

Browns are not even the Second Best in their own division. Let alone being 2nd best in the AFC. 

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, mattynh said:

The bills will have a harder time taking the division this year.  Pats and Dolphins are arming themselves.  

I’m freaking terrified of all the QB’s in our division will be facing this year !! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

 

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Mahomes played until late in the 3rd quarter against the Browns. The Browns defense did a much better job of stopping Mahomes than the Bills defense would do a week later. 

 

More generally, the Bills defense of 2020 did not play well against good passing offenses, except the game against Justin Herbert and the Chargers. The defensive collapse in the AFC Championship Game was part of a larger pattern. 

 

It may be worth pointing out that the Bills ranked #13 in passing yards given up, while the Browns ranked #22

 

The Browns "stopped" Mahomes and the Chiefs to the tune of giving up 315 passing yards, 438 yds total offense.

That happens to be one (yes 1) more yard of offense than the Bills gave up, and 10 fewer passing yards.  I don't think those 10 extra passing yards were the key to our losing the game.

 

Perhaps your statements are a little too simplistic.

 

 

[GoBills808]

59 minutes ago, NewEra said:

So you should double the odds?  Why would anyone bet that when the actual odds are almost half of what you propose.  
 

because you propose them in a certain thread?  Do you realize how nonsensical that is?

Yes that’s how dumb this thread is you figured it out

[ngbills]

4 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

 

I could have added some more responses from above as well, but if your only argument is that Josh Allen is better than Baker Mayfield as the reason the Bills are better than the Browns, I think that is flawed reasoning.  It's not just about the QB.

 

Is Mahomes better than Brady?  I guess the Chiefs must have won the Super Bowl last year then.  The QB is the most important piece of the puzzle, but not the whole puzzle.  Football is still a team sport.  How many Super Bowls does reigning MVP Aaron Rodgers have?  Five...Six?

 

 

 

I'm as big a homer as anyone on this board and I knew this wouldn't be a popular opinion here.   I stand by it though. 

 

People are sleeping on the Browns just like people were sleeping on the Bills based on how bad they were for years and years.  The Browns have difference makers at every position.  Baker Mayfied isn't as good a QB as Allen, not even close, but Baker doesn't have to be for the Browns to win.  If Mayfield continues to play ball control offense with that running game and an improved defense, they Browns are legit.

 

The bolded says it. The Bills typically need Allen to ball to win. If Allen is balling and Baker is balling my money is on the Bills. If Allen is not, then the Browns beat us with a running game. 

[Draconator]

Cleveland won't extend Baker, and will draft a new QB. Baker isn't and never will be up to the level of competition of Mahommes and Josh, and Cleveland will be wanting that. 

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Respectfully, Inigo, they were all starters or saw significant time for the Chiefs last year, including at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, Sammy Watkins was the #5 receiver on the Chiefs in yards, targets, and receptions, and #4 in yards per reception.  If contract length and cost is your yardstick, Watkins signed for 1 year, $5M, which is kinda chump-ish change for a "key" WR and puts him at #18 for a FA WR this year, I believe.

 

So you want to argue that losing one #4 or #5 WR contribution is "key", but 4 starters on D including a CB, aren't? That's headscratching, frankly.

 

The point isn't what they signed for or whether they're unsigned.  Josh Norman is still unsigned and it's a legit question for people to look at the Bills and say "how have they replaced him?" Breeland, Wilson, Kpassagnon, and Okafor were taking a lot of defensive snaps at the end of the season/playoffs.  If you want to be seen as making a cogent argument that the Chiefs have improved - you need to discuss how two DE who were taking ~50% of the snaps at the end of the season, a MLB who took 70% of the snaps in 2 playoff games, and a starting CB taking close to 100% of the snaps have been replaced.  I'm sure Andy wants better players, who are they, and where/how did he get them?

 

We can "agree to disagree" if you like, but only after I point out that an argument about why the Chiefs have gotten better, which claims their #4 or #5 WR is "their only significant loss" while overlooking significant defensive losses in FA is pretty shallow. 

 

I'm betting now that if I dug into what you have to say about the Browns I'd find equivalent gaps.

 

 

 

 

I didn’t read the past pages of the thread in detail.  You’re strictly arguing that the chiefs had some FA losses that matter other than sammy, who wasn’t very significant?  You agree that the chiefs got better this offseason?  Possibly significantly?

 

breelands loss is the biggest imo.  it matters.  He hasn’t been replaced yet and will be missed.....but the offseason is still long.  I bet he resigns before it’s said and done. If not, they’ll probably replace him with a FA that doesn’t suck
 

KPassagnon was a non factor the entire season.  Someone overpaid him, but he won’t be missed imo.  Kaindoh will likely play close to his level as a 5th rd pick imo. 
 

Wilson wasn’t very good.  Replaced by Bolton, who is much better imo

the OL went from the worst I’ve ever seen in the SB to one of the very best——on paper.  We’ll See how they turn out.  
 

Sammy was replaced by Cornell powell.  Downgrade imo, but than again, the offseason is. It over.

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by NewEra