NewEra Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: "Looking like" is the key word. Last year, it shouldn't even be a question that the Browns secondary was not as good as the Bills. There's also not a question at all that the Browns went out and made FA acquisitions and draft choices that on paper, should entirely overhall and improve their secondary! But that's really what this thread seems to be about - using "winning the offseason" as a criterion to decide who is gonna win the season. As Bills fans, we've been there done that and bought the T-shirt. Remember when the Bills had the absolute best DL in the NFL - on paper? 2012, if you don't. Mario Williams. Woooo! If y'all didn't get over this "better on paper" thing then, Why didn't ya? Just as KC remains the team to beat in the AFC until proven otherwise (despite completely overhauling their OL and losing significant starters on D), the Bills IMO remain the #2 seed until proven otherwise. They played a harder schedule than the Browns. They didn't have the stout D they wanted, but they had a better D than the Browns last season, even without looking at improvement towards the end of the season. The Browns took a lot of steps to shore up their weaknesses - maybe flashier steps than the Bills. Good for them! Here's the point: they needed to do so. Beane and McDermott didn't do much flashy, but IMHO they honed in on what they decided were the Bills biggest weaknesses (DL and OL) and added judiciously elsewhere with bargain players they could afford. They quietly took what steps they could to bolster the roster. Will the Bills wind up with an improved OL and improved pressure from the DL? Tune in during the season. Sure, if the Browns moves all pan out while the Bills tread water, the Browns could wind up being a better team. But if at least some of the Bills moves pan out and we wind up with better pressure from the DL and a more solid, reliable running game due to adding a COP back and improved run blocking, then we've kept up in the arms race (or even moved ahead) Time will tell. Agree with everything here. The bolded is a huge question mark. We’ve literally only added Matt Brieda to our run game. The OL we drafted likely won’t play this year barring injury. I was (and am still) hoping that we can add another competent TE so we can be more multidimensional running 2TE sets, but it looks as if Hollister is probably going to be the best that we add this offseason. Hopefully he can he’ll kick start our run game.....but I think that’s wishful thinking. Which leaves Breida and our coaching staffs playcalling/development as our “addressing the run game”. Looking at how poor it was last season, i don’t feel very confident that it will be dramatically improved. I’ve read the stats that backup that our run game “wasn’t that bad”....and I’ve watched every game several times, which backup that we can’t run when we need to and that defenses could care less about our run....which is why we have any positive run stats to begin with. Going into the offseason, improving our run game would have been my number 1 priority. Our passing offense is our meal ticket and opposing defenses will be using the chiefs blueprint to stop us going forward. Since our offense is almost unchanged, it’s on the coaching staff to implement a scheme that can get the run game going.
BarleyNY Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: "Looking like" is the key word. Last year, it shouldn't even be a question that the Browns secondary was not as good as the Bills. There's also not a question at all that the Browns went out and made FA acquisitions and draft choices that on paper, should entirely overhall and improve their secondary! But that's really what this thread seems to be about - using "winning the offseason" as a criterion to decide who is gonna win the season. As Bills fans, we've been there done that and bought the T-shirt. Remember when the Bills had the absolute best DL in the NFL - on paper? 2012, if you don't. Mario Williams. Woooo! If y'all didn't get over this "better on paper" thing then, Why didn't ya? Just as KC remains the team to beat in the AFC until proven otherwise (despite completely overhauling their OL and losing significant starters on D), the Bills IMO remain the #2 seed until proven otherwise. They played a harder schedule than the Browns. They didn't have the stout D they wanted, but they had a better D than the Browns last season, even without looking at improvement towards the end of the season. The Browns took a lot of steps to shore up their weaknesses - maybe flashier steps than the Bills. Good for them! Here's the point: they needed to do so. Beane and McDermott didn't do much flashy, but IMHO they honed in on what they decided were the Bills biggest weaknesses (DL and OL) and added judiciously elsewhere with bargain players they could afford. They quietly took what steps they could to bolster the roster. Will the Bills wind up with an improved OL and improved pressure from the DL? Tune in during the season. Sure, if the Browns moves all pan out while the Bills tread water, the Browns could wind up being a better team. But if at least some of the Bills moves pan out and we wind up with better pressure from the DL and a more solid, reliable running game due to adding a COP back and improved run blocking, then we've kept up in the arms race (or even moved ahead) Time will tell. We can agree to disagree on the DBs, - and there’s no doubt the Browns had a lot to do to make up ground - but exactly how did the Bills improve their OL? The interior is the same and on the outside they swapped out swing tackle Nseke for 3rd and 5th round rookies. At best that’s a wash. As for DL I don’t see how you can discount FAs and draft picks for the Browns, but count on the Bills draft picks being significant contributors. That’s not a fair way to look at it.
TheFunPolice Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 It's going to be a fun ride this season for sure! Either way, the idea of KC, CLE and BUF being the powers in the AFC is cool to see, after NE, IND/DEN and PIT were pretty much it for 20 years. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 54 minutes ago, NewEra said: Agree with everything here. The bolded is a huge question mark. We’ve literally only added Matt Brieda to our run game. The OL we drafted likely won’t play this year barring injury. I was (and am still) hoping that we can add another competent TE so we can be more multidimensional running 2TE sets, but it looks as if Hollister is probably going to be the best that we add this offseason. Hopefully he can he’ll kick start our run game.....but I think that’s wishful thinking. Which leaves Breida and our coaching staffs playcalling/development as our “addressing the run game”. Looking at how poor it was last season, i don’t feel very confident that it will be dramatically improved. Good discussion! So if you follow the breadcrumbs Beane has dropped about being very unfair to blame the backs for the rungame, and if you buy in to some of the film breakdown analysis Cover1 did on the run game, the #1 problem with the rungame was blocking - OL, TE, and WR. I'm trying to break down how I think Beane sees it here and the moves that might make a difference (or might not). OL: The center and the tackles are the same, so presumably they weren't ID'd as the problem (or the problems ID'd with them were decided to be coachable) So this comes down to RG and LG. RG: Winters game 3-11, then Feliciano LG: Spain game 1-2, then Ford game 3-6, then Boettger games 7-10, then Feliciano Game 11, then Boettger I think Beane has a 3 pronged approach: 1) improved play by last year's injury-hampered intended starters 2) improved play by developmental guys 3) replacement by 2nd tier guards picked up good run blocking teams Either Ford and Feliciano were hampered by off season rehab/in season injuries that they didn't represent their best selves OR Boettger at LG and Devey at RG can take a step OR Lamp (off the Chargers) and Jamil Douglas (off the Titans) I put them in order of possible solutions but I'd say off hand Douglas is seen as ahead of Devey if Feliciano doesn't step it up. 54 minutes ago, NewEra said: I’ve read the stats that backup that our run game “wasn’t that bad”....and I’ve watched every game several times, which backup that we can’t run when we need to and that defenses could care less about our run....which is why we have any positive run stats to begin with. I'm not quite sure that's it. I think we ran when we needed to at times - all game against NE, against the Chargers, against the Steelers to put the game away. BUT, we could not run against the best run defenses, that's for reals. More later. 1
GoBills808 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: DBs should go to the Browns. White is the best on either team and Wallace is solid, but it really drops off at CB after that. Taron is serviceable and Jackson is a still very unproven late round pick - though he did show some promise. Poyer and Hyde are very good safeties but all that we have behind them is Neal. The Browns are looking like they could be stacked there. Ward and Harrison are very good DBs, first round pick Greg Newsome II is an excellent (if unproven) CB prospect, they picked up two FAs in Hill and Johnson III from the Rams (which had the best secondary in the NFL last season) and they’ll be getting back injured players Delpit and Williams. 😂😂😂 Dane Jackson has at least proven he can play in the NFL. Half the guys you listed as the reason the Browns have a better secondary have never taken a pro rep.
Jauronimo Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 9:35 AM, cle23 said: The first 7, sure. But why if Buffalo did something is it them "making plays" but if Cleveland did it, it's the other team spotting them points? That's how things are presented here. I think both teams will be in the hunt next year. Buffalo plays in a MUCH easier division, so that'll help the record portion, but I think both teams are pretty even right now. Allen is better than Mayfield right now, but Mayfield has had a much harder situation in his career so far. Mayfield will never be Allen in terms of ability, but he can still be a top tier QB. I also don't think Allen would be who he is today if he changed HC and OC as many times as Cleveland did in 3 years. Cleveland is much more balanced then Buffalo. Buffalo has"proven" it longer. But Cleveland I feel had finally figured out the GM and HC situations, so going forward both teams should be good. Remember, Cleveland's current GM wanted McDermott, not Hue Jackson. D And he wanted Stefanski last year, but Freddie Kitchens. The AFC East went 4-0 vs. the AFC North last year. Carry on. 1
BarleyNY Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: 😂😂😂 Dane Jackson has at least proven he can play in the NFL. Half the guys you listed as the reason the Browns have a better secondary have never taken a pro rep. Nope. Dane Jackson has played a whopping 231 NFL snaps in 5 games - including 193 on defense. He’s very far from proven. Only 2021 first round rookie Newsome and 2020 second rounder Delpit fall below that, neither having taken a snap. With the veterans the Browns have at CB and S neither of them even has to start anyway. 1
GoBills808 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: The AFC East went 4-0 vs. the AFC North last year. Carry on. 5-0 if we count the playoffs too I think
Arm of Harm Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bob in STL said: Agree with your last sentence. Everything else is looking for excuses to discount the play of the Bills, or the opponents that they beat. The ONLY thing that matters is the W at the end of the game. You don’t get anything extra for “wining convincingly”. Last year is in the past. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what this year’s regular season and postseason might hold. If you narrowly squeak out a win last year, that’s not a strong indication you’ll necessarily beat that same opponent again this year. Last year the Bills should have, but didn’t, beat the Colts and Ravens convincingly. They should have put up a better fight against the Chiefs, especially on defense. The fact these things didn’t happen is indicative of problems. So then I ask myself what steps the Bills have taken in the off-season to solve those problems. The most obvious is the defensive line/effort to greatly improve the pass rush. The interior of the OL, as well as the WR corps, could improve by virtue of being healthier this postseason than they were the last time around. Then there’s the hope the Bills coaches will come up with a better game plan for dealing with the Chiefs. So, strong opportunities to solve the problems we had last postseason. But it doesn’t help to sweep those problems under the rug, just because we narrowly beat the Colts and Ravens. Edited May 5, 2021 by Arm of Harm
NewEra Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Good discussion! So if you follow the breadcrumbs Beane has dropped about being very unfair to blame the backs for the rungame, and if you buy in to some of the film breakdown analysis Cover1 did on the run game, the #1 problem with the rungame was blocking - OL, TE, and WR. I'm trying to break down how I think Beane sees it here and the moves that might make a difference (or might not). OL: The center and the tackles are the same, so presumably they weren't ID'd as the problem (or the problems ID'd with them were decided to be coachable) So this comes down to RG and LG. RG: Winters game 3-11, then Feliciano LG: Spain game 1-2, then Ford game 3-6, then Boettger games 7-10, then Feliciano Game 11, then Boettger I think Beane has a 3 pronged approach: 1) improved play by last year's injury-hampered intended starters 2) improved play by developmental guys 3) replacement by 2nd tier guards picked up good run blocking teams Either Ford and Feliciano were hampered by off season rehab/in season injuries that they didn't represent their best selves OR Boettger at LG and Devey at RG can take a step OR Lamp (off the Chargers) and Jamil Douglas (off the Titans) I put them in order of possible solutions but I'd say off hand Douglas is seen as ahead of Devey if Feliciano doesn't step it up. I'm not quite sure that's it. I think we ran when we needed to at times - all game against NE, against the Chargers, against the Steelers to put the game away. BUT, we could not run against the best run defenses, that's for reals. More later. Our run game stunk vs more than just the best run defenses. We couldn’t run at all vs the chiefs in either game. Their run d wasn’t good. The Patriots had the worst front 7 in football last season. Denver had a terrible run D. The chargers run D was worse than ours. Seems to me like we could only run vs the worst of the run defenses. The one drive closing out the steeler game was the best of the best for our run game last year. It’s been brought up ad nauseam in the media and here that our run game was nonexistent and a major problem.....if we could run when we wanted to (which we all know was far and few in between) it wouldn’t be a problem. Come playoff time, I doubt we’re going to be playing the worst run defenses week after week. It needs to get fixed or teams will do what the chiefs did to us..... 💯 disregard our run game.....and still hold our starting Rb to 2.8 ypc in the AFCCG and 3.2 during the season. 1 1
GoBills808 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Nope. Dane Jackson has played a whopping 231 NFL snaps in 5 games - including 193 on defense. He’s very far from proven. Only 2021 first round rookie Newsome and 2020 second rounder Delpit fall below that, neither having taken a snap. With the veterans the Browns have at CB and S neither of them even has to start anyway. Hill is a slot DB going to play corner for the Browns on a 2 year/$9M deal, and Ward is basically Wallace. Maybe a little better. Their safeties are fine. Ours are AllPro caliber.
ngbills Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Hill is a slot DB going to play corner for the Browns on a 2 year/$9M deal, and Ward is basically Wallace. Maybe a little better. Their safeties are fine. Ours are AllPro caliber. Haha. Ward is basically Wallace?
GoBills808 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, ngbills said: Haha. Ward is basically Wallace? Don’t fact check me while I’m trying to prove a point 1
NewEra Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I thought the problem against the Chiefs offensively were complete breakdowns along the offensive line on 3rd downs and receivers struggling to get open on those 3rd downs.... causing Allen to run backwards get sacked for an incredible loss of yardage or throw an INC pass. Oh yeah....I agree. Our WRs weren’t getting open (likely due to injury and the referees allowing the chiefs to play super aggressive, but not in the SB for w/Ed reason). But you have to look at why the OL broke down. I believe a lot of it had to do with chiefs blitzing the entire game. Why were they able to blitz the entire game? Because they were able to completely disregard our run game and screens to our RBs. Our run game was booty last season and I disagree with anyone who says that it wasn’t. I said mid season, unless our run game improves, there is going to be a team that is able to take away our pass and our season will be over unless our D revives itself. Out D improved, but not enough.....and our season ended because a team took away our pass because they were able to disregard our run game. We were the passing version of the ravens. We stifled their run....their season was over.
Jauronimo Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 51 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: 5-0 if we count the playoffs too I think Great point. "The AFC EAST is soooooooooo much easier!!" - guy whose team lost to the f@#$ing Jets with the playoffs on the line. 1
GoBills808 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Great point. "The AFC EAST is soooooooooo much easier!!" - guy whose team lost to the f@#$ing Jets with the playoffs on the line. For purely selfish reasons I hope these are the same soothsayers who called Miami the class of the division midseason
Process Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 A 21 page thread debating Bills vs Browns, in May?! Bills fans really are insecure. 1
WideNine Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) The knee-jerk reactions are funny as this is a plausible take. Folks can assume the Browns will stay in the basement forever. The same was thought about the Bills not that long ago. I thought the Browns had more balance with their run game keeping the Chiefs' defense off balance and better controlling the game flow and their defense had a better showing bottling up Mahomes than we did. They were solid down the stretch so not a shocker if they can build on that with their additions. Always a crap shoot with key injuries over the season so just get into the post season and you never know...team's can peak down the stretch. Our interior oline got ragdolled against KC and not many changes there so the gamble is that a healthy Ford back and Mongo fully healing can turn that around.... And, hoping we will run better against those defensive fronts that can drop 7 into coverage. Beane invested in our oline, but with rookies that will need to be developed and center/guard was not a priority focus of his draft rather OT and up the middle is where we struggled. I do expect more from our defense this year. The X-factor. With Star back and the infusion of youth along the defensive front.... they seem to have a lot of confidence in a healthy Dane Jackson. Enough that they said meh to drafting another DB in the 2nd. Edited May 5, 2021 by WideNine
GunnerBill Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 1 hour ago, ngbills said: Haha. Ward is basically Wallace? Yea so I am not the biggest fan of Ward as an outside corner (I maintain eventually they will move him into the slot and he will be elite - the best slot in the NFL) but he is still a lot better than Levi.
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