1. Chiefs 2. Browns 3. Bills

[Arm of Harm]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It may be worth pointing out that the Bills ranked #13 in passing yards given up, while the Browns ranked #22

 

The Browns "stopped" Mahomes and the Chiefs to the tune of giving up 315 passing yards, 438 yds total offense.

That happens to be one (yes 1) more yard of offense than the Bills gave up, and 10 fewer passing yards.  I don't think those 10 extra passing yards were the key to our losing the game.

 

Perhaps your statements are a little too simplistic.

 

 

 

The initial datum you mention may be misleading, due to quality of opposition. The Bills defense played Cam Newton twice, Tua once, Sam Darnold and the Jets twice, etc. Easy to run up good stats against QBs and passing offenses like those. 

 

Then you look at how the Bills defense fared against good QBs or good passing attacks. The defense allowed Ryan Fitzpatrick to pile up a lot of yards and points: the Bills narrowly won that game in a shootout. Against Russell Wilson the defense allowed him to achieve significantly more than his usual yards per pass attempt, but made up for it by generating sacks and INTs. The Bills defense allowed Kyler Murray to do better than his usual yards per pass attempt. Then there were the two defensive collapses against KC: one in the regular season, the other in the postseason. Justin Herbert achieved a bit less than his usual yards per attempt when facing the Bills defense: the one good defensive performance against a good passing QB. 

 

As far as defensive performance against KC, I'm far more interested in points per drive, than I am in total passing yards. If you throw out drives which ended in kneel downs, the Bills defense allowed a TD on all KC drives, except for 1 punt and 1 FG. The punt was due to a dropped pass. The Bills defense did nothing to give the team a chance to win. The Browns defense gave their team a realistic chance to win in their playoff game against KC.

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Arm of Harm

[DrPJax]

4 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Allen >>>>>> baker it’s not even close and thus the bills are way ahead of the browns and tied with the chiefs 

Team sport. 22 positions.  Just a thought, who won the last time they faced off?  Hmmmm,,,,maybe a lot closer than you realize. Every year rosters change and ask Sean, it’s a whole new  challenge.  Op was correct that Brownies were more competitive against the AFC champs who easily thumped us twice. There was no point in either game where it felt like we could beat the Chiefs.  Hope that changes , but like the Bucs proved last year , better defense , and an ability to run when needed still wins Championships.  We tied our best record ever and yet we were still two games short of a championship.  
All I am saying is what EXACTLY makes you think sure we closed the overall talent gap between us and the Chiefs ?  And I don’t think anyone woiod argue many Bills fans wanted Newsome and JOK as pieces to plug holes in our roster prior,to the draft,  and many were calling for Clowney.  Just reiterating , yep we have a better QB, but so far we have not proven we match up better than the Browns do as a team against the chiefs just based on recent past.  Hope it changes , a lot depends on how much Sean and Frazier improve their performances in big games. Reid, much like Belicheck did until Brady left and many d players opted out , so far has outcoached and has Sean’s number.  The Browns front office and coaching staff made big leaps last year and many think they had an impressive draft.  

 

We are a good team but so are the other two and unless mahomes disappears, Chiefs still favored and Bills / Browns will be close but still behind.   
We are going to be in a tougher division than last year.  ,Pats, fins , Jets were all bad last year and I think the Pats will challenge us more this year.  Also Bucky Brooks , a former Bills guy, just stated Browns made a huge haul during the draft and are a “ legitimate super bowl contender” so OP is not alone in his opinion.  Nfl is a Qb AND COACHING driven league, so it’s more than Allen just being better than Mayfield. 😉

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Team sport. 22 positions.  Just a thought, who won the last time they faced off?  Hmmmm,,,,maybe a lot closer than you realize. Every year rosters change and ask Sean, it’s a whole new  challenge.  Op was correct that Brownies were more competitive against the AFC champs who easily thumped us twice. There was no point in either game where it felt like we could beat the Chiefs.  Hope that changes , but like the Bucs proved last year , better defense , and an ability to run when needed still wins Championships.  We tied our best record ever and yet we were still two games short of a championship.  
All I am saying is what EXACTLY makes you think sure we closed the overall talent gap between us and the Chiefs ?  And I don’t think anyone woiod argue many Bills fans wanted Newsome and JOK as pieces to plug holes in our roster prior,to the draft,  and many were calling for Clowney.  Just reiterating , yep we have a better QB, but so far we have not proven we match up better than the Browns do as a team against the chiefs just based on recent past.  Hope it changes , a lot depends on how much Sean and Frazier improve their performances in big games. Reid, much like Belicheck did until Brady left and many d players opted out , so far has outcoached and has Sean’s number.  The Browns front office and coaching staff made big leaps last year and many think they had an impressive draft.  

 

We are a good team but so are the other two and unless mahomes disappears, Chiefs still favored and Bills / Browns will be close but still behind.   
We are going to be in a tougher division than last year.  ,Pats, fins , Jets were all bad last year and I think the Pats will challenge us more this year.  Also Bucky Brooks , a former Bills guy, just stated Browns made a huge haul during the draft and are a “ legitimate super bowl contender” so OP is not alone in his opinion.  Nfl is a Qb AND COACHING driven league, so it’s more than Allen just being better than Mayfield. 😉

Some people just don’t know how to handle a little success.  End of story 

[Success]

I'm WAY too homer to think that Cleveland leaps over the Bills because of one decent game against KC in the playoffs. So, I'll give my homer take on it.

 

The Bills went on a streak that was absolutely ridiculous, from the hail Murray to the AFCCG.  And there was no doubt:  they rolled through late November, December and January like they were the best team in the league.  And they probably were.

 

Unfortunately, by the time they rolled into the game against KC, ALL 4 WIDEOUTS had significant injuries.  And we saw that, all game.  Yes, injuries happen - but not like that, to one unit, and a unit that was probably the biggest key to our success outside of QB.

 

The Bills, imo, are the best team in the league.  We retained everyone (except Smoke, who we replaced w/ the equally effective Sanders), and added a young but talented pass rush in the draft.  I don't think Cleveland is even close to our level.

 

Hey, I said it was a homer take. But it's also a true story.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I didn’t read the past pages of the thread in detail.  You’re strictly arguing that the chiefs had some FA losses that matter other than sammy, who wasn’t very significant?  You agree that the chiefs got better this offseason?  Possibly significantly?

 

I don't know if I agree that the Chiefs got even better, much less significantly better, or not. 

 

They were already the "Team to Beat" in the AFC the last several years, and until proven otherwise, that's what they remain.

 

I follow them a little bit since I live in the same state and we have no football team in my city now, so we get a lot of media coverage/chiefs games on TV. 

 

My point is that if a guy wants to make an argument about how other teams got better while ours didn't, he's got to come up with a more balanced, thorough assessment, and that one didn't pass my "sniff test"

 

The Chiefs OL line may be better.  It depends upon whether Orlando Brown is as good in their blocking scheme and blocking for a pass-heavy offense as he was blocking for Jackson and a run heavy offense.  It depends upon whether Creed Humphries is ready to start in the NFL.  It depends upon how all these guys gel and come together.  Remember when we had "the best DL, on paper" in the NFL?  If Brown comes through for them, giving up what they did makes sense, but it did cut down on what they could do, defensively.

 

The Chiefs D was pretty good, and had some losses in FA.  Remains to be seen if they improved, tread water, or got worse.  My point is it's not a given they got better - they did have losses on D, and Bolton is not necessarily a "woo, ready to Rock!" guy in the NFL - Zierlein grades him as "starter within 2 seasons"

[Arm of Harm]

18 minutes ago, Success said:

I'm WAY too homer to think that Cleveland leaps over the Bills because of one decent game against KC in the playoffs. So, I'll give my homer take on it.

 

The Bills went on a streak that was absolutely ridiculous, from the hail Murray to the AFCCG.  And there was no doubt:  they rolled through late November, December and January like they were the best team in the league.  And they probably were.

 

Unfortunately, by the time they rolled into the game against KC, ALL 4 WIDEOUTS had significant injuries.  And we saw that, all game.  Yes, injuries happen - but not like that, to one unit, and a unit that was probably the biggest key to our success outside of QB.

 

The Bills, imo, are the best team in the league.  We retained everyone (except Smoke, who we replaced w/ the equally effective Sanders), and added a young but talented pass rush in the draft.  I don't think Cleveland is even close to our level.

 

Hey, I said it was a homer take. But it's also a true story.

 

I agree with most of what you wrote, but think there's more to the story. 

 

During the last 1/3 of the regular season, the Bills indeed looked like they might be the best team in the NFL. The offense looked unstoppable, the defense appeared to have gotten its act together. But then, for whatever reason, the team seemingly provided a lower level of play in the postseason. Yeah, part of it was the WRs being hurt, but that was not the whole story. During the regular season the offensive line did well at pass protection but badly at run blocking. In the postseason it was bad at both. The defense did not play particularly well against the Colts, and as I'd mentioned had the complete collapse against the Chiefs. The defense played well against the Ravens, but in that game the offense didn't do much. That Ravens game was essentially decided by one play: the pick six. (A 14 point swing.) 

 

For the Bills to win it all they need much more than just a healthy WR corps. They need an OL which can at least reliably pass protect, even if it can't run block very well. They need a defense which forces punts or turnovers at least some of the time, each and every game, so that we don't run into another debacle like the AFC Championship Game. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Arm of Harm

[GoBills808]

Lol how does a one play swing that lost the game for Browns somehow get turned into a positive while a one play swing that wins the game for the Bills is a negative

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes that’s how dumb this thread is you figured it out

Yeah.....I should’ve known 

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if I agree that the Chiefs got even better, much less significantly better, or not. 

 

They were already the "Team to Beat" in the AFC the last several years, and until proven otherwise, that's what they remain.

 

I follow them a little bit since I live in the same state and we have no football team in my city now, so we get a lot of media coverage/chiefs games on TV. 

 

My point is that if a guy wants to make an argument about how other teams got better while ours didn't, he's got to come up with a more balanced, thorough assessment, and that one didn't pass my "sniff test"

 

The Chiefs OL line may be better.  It depends upon whether Orlando Brown is as good in their blocking scheme and blocking for a pass-heavy offense as he was blocking for Jackson and a run heavy offense.  It depends upon whether Creed Humphries is ready to start in the NFL.  It depends upon how all these guys gel and come together.  Remember when we had "the best DL, on paper" in the NFL?  If Brown comes through for them, giving up what they did makes sense, but it did cut down on what they could do, defensively.

 

The Chiefs D was pretty good, and had some losses in FA.  Remains to be seen if they improved, tread water, or got worse.  My point is it's not a given they got better - they did have losses on D, and Bolton is not necessarily a "woo, ready to Rock!" guy in the NFL - Zierlein grades him as "starter within 2 seasons"

gotcha.  I’m can dig the majority of that 

the bolded, maybe not so much.  What you are saying about the chiefs OL you can say about literally every acquisition every team makes.  It depends if.....because we haven’t seen them in play.  But this is the offseason and all talk about next season is a projection.  A projection based on last seasons play and past season.  We don’t know if Trevor Lawrence will be better than Mike Glennon.,..but we can project based on what we’ve seen.  Most people that know football would agree that the Chiefs OL is one of the best OLs on paper.  Last year, they had one of the worst OLs on paper (but wasn’t terrible until fisher went down).  The projection is that their OL will be better, if not monumentally better..  we don’t “know” that they will be....but we also don’t “know” anything about anyone in may

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

 

The initial datum you mention may be misleading, due to quality of opposition. The Bills defense played Cam Newton twice, Tua once, Sam Darnold and the Jets twice, etc. Easy to run up good stats against QBs and passing offenses like those. 

 

OK - so what teams did the other defenses play against?  And how many of the passing yards given up were "garbage time" yards?

 

The Bills had one of the hardest strengths of schedule in the league last year. 

 

Other teams also "pad" their stats defensively against weak passing opponents, also.  Since we're talking about the Browns, and you're arguing that the Bills aggregate pass defense #s are misleading because of who we played, who did the Browns play? The Ravens 2x - not exactly a high-powered passing attack - Washington Football Team, the Jets, the Giants, the Jaguars, the Ghost of Big Ben Roethlisberger x2 (and back to back at the end of the season).  Who are the high powered passing attacks they played, besides the Chiefs in the Division round and possibly the Cowboys?  They gave up 481 passing yards to the Cowboys, by the way, and 369 to the Titans.

 

The blanket statement you made "More generally, the Bills defense of 2020 did not play well against good passing offenses, except the game against Justin Herbert and the Chargers. The defensive collapse in the AFC Championship Game was part of a larger pattern." is probably an oversimplification, as is the implication that the Browns put on a better showing against the Chiefs because their defense shut down the Chiefs passing game better than ours did.

 

They didn't.  Here's the Chiefs and Browns drives during that game:

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Draconator said:

Cleveland won't extend Baker, and will draft a new QB. Baker isn't and never will be up to the level of competition of Mahommes and Josh, and Cleveland will be wanting that. 

 

Didn't Cleveland already pick up Baker's 5th year option? (*rummage rummage* Yes, yes they did):

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/26/baker-mayfield-truly-thankful-browns-picked-up-his-5th-year-option/

 

I don't have the figures, but isn't it pretty much a sure bet that when a team picks up a guys' 5th year option, they extend him?

 

On the other hand...the Panthers picked up Sam Darnold's.  Hmmm.

[BarleyNY]

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if I agree that the Chiefs got even better, much less significantly better, or not. 

 

They were already the "Team to Beat" in the AFC the last several years, and until proven otherwise, that's what they remain.

 

I follow them a little bit since I live in the same state and we have no football team in my city now, so we get a lot of media coverage/chiefs games on TV. 

 

My point is that if a guy wants to make an argument about how other teams got better while ours didn't, he's got to come up with a more balanced, thorough assessment, and that one didn't pass my "sniff test"

 

The Chiefs OL line may be better.  It depends upon whether Orlando Brown is as good in their blocking scheme and blocking for a pass-heavy offense as he was blocking for Jackson and a run heavy offense.  It depends upon whether Creed Humphries is ready to start in the NFL.  It depends upon how all these guys gel and come together.  Remember when we had "the best DL, on paper" in the NFL?  If Brown comes through for them, giving up what they did makes sense, but it did cut down on what they could do, defensively.

 

The Chiefs D was pretty good, and had some losses in FA.  Remains to be seen if they improved, tread water, or got worse.  My point is it's not a given they got better - they did have losses on D, and Bolton is not necessarily a "woo, ready to Rock!" guy in the NFL - Zierlein grades him as "starter within 2 seasons"

While I agree with the OP that the Browns have taken huge strides this offseason and have probably passed the Bills on a talent level, Hap makes an excellent point - and it’s one that I harp on regularly:  SHOW ME.  You gotta prove it.  How it looks on paper is not how it always shows in real life.

[eball]

LOL.  Until the Bills and Browns swap QBs and Brandon Beane leaves nobody is “leapfrogging” the Bills.

[cle23]

5 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

The Browns are certainly a good team, but they re-vamped their offensive approach last year for a reason. They know Baker has limitations. The Browns ran the ball 48.4% of snaps in 2020 for a reason...They have to stay balanced because their QB is not elite. And they have the talent at RB and O-Line to run it well... While that did allow them to be very competitive when it worked, the problem was when it didn't...Like the Jets game...They were bad on Offense because the Jets shut down the run (45 yards total, a 2.5 yards per carry average). This is the way NFL Defenses will approach the Brown Offense in 2021, they will make Baker beat them, so it will be up to Baker to raise his game...

 

I don't care what they did on paper so far. If Mayfield cannot raise his game to the next level the Browns will have issues winning their own Division (they lost twice to Balt, went 2-1 vs Pittsburgh but got beat up in the loss early on when the Steelers were healthier, and beat Cincy by a total of 8 points in 2 games), let alone being the #2 team in the AFC...

 

We'll see I guess...

 

 

 

The Jets game had Cleveland missing their top 5 WRs due to Covid, and they started 2 players who had never seen an NFL field and were signed 3 days before the game. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

The Chiefs entered the off season after getting man handled in the Super Bowl because their O-line had fallen apart.  They blew up their O-line and decided to rebuild.  On paper at least, they look to have improved the line.  They signed Joe Thuney to a 5 year $80 million contract and he will slide into the left guard position.  They then signed Kyle Long to a one year deal to step into the right guard position.  They resigned Mike Remmers to play right tackle and then traded with the Ravens for Orlando Brown to step in as their left tackle.  They signed Austin Blythe from the Rams to play center, and then drafted the 2nd ranked center, Creed Humphrey, to push Blythe and develop into their future center.  The only free agent they lost of any consequence was Sammy Watkins which should not slow them down much.

 

I think on the whole the O-line is upgraded and they kept the rest of the band together.  I don't see any reasonable argument to say the Chiefs shouldn't remain the #1 seed in the AFC heading into the 2021 season.

 

The Browns will leap frog us this season and be the primary threat to the Chiefs.   If you look at the playoffs last year, the Browns came within a fumbled football out of the endzone from beating the Chiefs.  The Bills by comparison didn't even make a game of it against the Chiefs.  The Browns' roster seems to match up better against the Chiefs, and that was before the Browns very impressive off season.

 

The defense was the weak side of the ball last season and the Browns attacked this off season with that in mind.  They snagged John Johnson the best free agent safety on the market to address a huge weakness and also added CB Troy Hill who will be an instant upgrade.  They brought in Clowney to stack opposite Miles Garrett on the D-line.  They then drafted CB Greg Newsome and LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah who should both start this season.  The Browns bring back their offense intact and Mayfield will have the benefit of playing in the same offense for the first time in his career.  OBJ will also be back this season.

 

The Bills did a great job of resigning their key free agents this year and also upgraded the backup QB position.  They brought in Sanders to replace Brown which could be an up grade and added Hollister to the TE room.  We all hope that having Star back will have a ripple effect on the D-line and result in better play across the entire line and allow our LB play to improve as well.  The entire team will benefit from another year of coaching and scheme stability and hopefully some of our young players like Oliver and Edmunds will take a step forward this year.

 

 

Overview   A lot is made of the Bills retaining their own talent, and I agree that Beane did a great job of maintaining a roster that made it to the AFC Championship game, but the uncomfortable truth is that the Chiefs maintained their roster too AND improved their O-Line.   The Browns also avoided any key free agency loses AND improved their defensive secondary and brought in Clowney on the D-line.  The Browns and Chiefs will also benefit from another year of coaching and scheme stability just like the Bills.

 

The off season isn't over yet, but the free agency period is winding down and the Draft is over.  Baring injuries, any changes to the rosters of the Chiefs, Browns, and Bills before opening weekend will likely just be on the margins before opening weekend.  When Andy Reid looks out across the AFC, I think he is probably more worried about what is going on in Cleveland than what is going on in Buffalo.  I think the Browns have improved enough this off season to move past us and become the primary threat to the Chiefs this year. 

 

At this point I'd rank the AFC;    1. Chiefs  2. Browns  3. Bills

Keep speaking truth. This post is dripping with it. Homers just don't want to hear it.

[Boxcar]

7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

The Chiefs entered the off season after getting man handled in the Super Bowl because their O-line had fallen apart.  They blew up their O-line and decided to rebuild.  On paper at least, they look to have improved the line.  They signed Joe Thuney to a 5 year $80 million contract and he will slide into the left guard position.  They then signed Kyle Long to a one year deal to step into the right guard position.  They resigned Mike Remmers to play right tackle and then traded with the Ravens for Orlando Brown to step in as their left tackle.  They signed Austin Blythe from the Rams to play center, and then drafted the 2nd ranked center, Creed Humphrey, to push Blythe and develop into their future center.  The only free agent they lost of any consequence was Sammy Watkins which should not slow them down much.

 

I think on the whole the O-line is upgraded and they kept the rest of the band together.  I don't see any reasonable argument to say the Chiefs shouldn't remain the #1 seed in the AFC heading into the 2021 season.

 

The Browns will leap frog us this season and be the primary threat to the Chiefs.   If you look at the playoffs last year, the Browns came within a fumbled football out of the endzone from beating the Chiefs.  The Bills by comparison didn't even make a game of it against the Chiefs.  The Browns' roster seems to match up better against the Chiefs, and that was before the Browns very impressive off season.

 

The defense was the weak side of the ball last season and the Browns attacked this off season with that in mind.  They snagged John Johnson the best free agent safety on the market to address a huge weakness and also added CB Troy Hill who will be an instant upgrade.  They brought in Clowney to stack opposite Miles Garrett on the D-line.  They then drafted CB Greg Newsome and LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah who should both start this season.  The Browns bring back their offense intact and Mayfield will have the benefit of playing in the same offense for the first time in his career.  OBJ will also be back this season.

 

The Bills did a great job of resigning their key free agents this year and also upgraded the backup QB position.  They brought in Sanders to replace Brown which could be an up grade and added Hollister to the TE room.  We all hope that having Star back will have a ripple effect on the D-line and result in better play across the entire line and allow our LB play to improve as well.  The entire team will benefit from another year of coaching and scheme stability and hopefully some of our young players like Oliver and Edmunds will take a step forward this year.

 

 

Overview   A lot is made of the Bills retaining their own talent, and I agree that Beane did a great job of maintaining a roster that made it to the AFC Championship game, but the uncomfortable truth is that the Chiefs maintained their roster too AND improved their O-Line.   The Browns also avoided any key free agency loses AND improved their defensive secondary and brought in Clowney on the D-line.  The Browns and Chiefs will also benefit from another year of coaching and scheme stability just like the Bills.

 

The off season isn't over yet, but the free agency period is winding down and the Draft is over.  Baring injuries, any changes to the rosters of the Chiefs, Browns, and Bills before opening weekend will likely just be on the margins before opening weekend.  When Andy Reid looks out across the AFC, I think he is probably more worried about what is going on in Cleveland than what is going on in Buffalo.  I think the Browns have improved enough this off season to move past us and become the primary threat to the Chiefs this year. 

 

At this point I'd rank the AFC;    1. Chiefs  2. Browns  3. Bills

Dude, Clowney sucks. There's a reason no one was rushing to sign him. The Browns had a barely positive point differential last season, and yeah, they've gotten better but can we at least wait until week 2 before we begin the Bills tradition of collectively shitting our pants and declaring the season to be over?

[Arm of Harm]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK - so what teams did the other defenses play against?  And how many of the passing yards given up were "garbage time" yards?

 

The Bills had one of the hardest strengths of schedule in the league last year. 

 

Other teams also "pad" their stats defensively against weak passing opponents, also.  Since we're talking about the Browns, and you're arguing that the Bills aggregate pass defense #s are misleading because of who we played, who did the Browns play? The Ravens 2x - not exactly a high-powered passing attack - Washington Football Team, the Jets, the Giants, the Jaguars, the Ghost of Big Ben Roethlisberger x2 (and back to back at the end of the season).  Who are the high powered passing attacks they played, besides the Chiefs in the Division round and possibly the Cowboys?  They gave up 481 passing yards to the Cowboys, by the way, and 369 to the Titans.

 

The blanket statement you made "More generally, the Bills defense of 2020 did not play well against good passing offenses, except the game against Justin Herbert and the Chargers. The defensive collapse in the AFC Championship Game was part of a larger pattern." is probably an oversimplification, as is the implication that the Browns put on a better showing against the Chiefs because their defense shut down the Chiefs passing game better than ours did.

 

They didn't.  Here's the Chiefs and Browns drives during that game:

 

 

I am more familiar with the Bills than I am with the Browns, so I don't want to get dragged into a discussion of whether the Browns' defensive ranking is or isn't inflated. But, when the Bills faced a good QB in 2020, he typically put up a better yards per attempt against the Bills than he did for the season as a whole. That is indicative of a defense that's below-average against good passing attacks. 

 

In the AFC Championship Game, the Chiefs had 7 drives which didn't end in kneel downs. Assuming a maximum of 7 points per drive, that's a total potential score of 7 x 7 = 49 points for the Chiefs offense. The Chiefs offense scored 38 points, or 78% of maximum. 

 

According to the tables you provided, the Chiefs also had 7 non-kneel down drives against the Browns. Once again that's a maximum of 49 points. The Browns defense allowed 23 points on those drives, which is 47% of the maximum. Allowing an offense to score at 47% of maximum is clearly a much better defensive performance than allowing it to score at 78% of maximum. 

[aceman_16]

7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Lets see who wins the AFC Divisions first.

 

On an unrelated note:  What is the obsession of having to rank everything, everywhere, all the time?

I just don't get it.  I'm old I guess.

I rank your post 8/10.

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

Dude, Clowney sucks. There's a reason no one was rushing to sign him. The Browns had a barely positive point differential last season, and yeah, they've gotten better but can we at least wait until week 2 before we begin the Bills tradition of collectively shitting our pants and declaring the season to be over?

Can you at least wait til someone says that before you proclaim that that they do?  That’s not what he said.....exaggerate more 

[NewEra]

42 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

While I agree with the OP that the Browns have taken huge strides this offseason and have probably passed the Bills on a talent level, Hap makes an excellent point - and it’s one that I harp on regularly:  SHOW ME.  You gotta prove it.  How it looks on paper is not how it always shows in real life.

Absolutely...... but it’s May 2nd and we’re on a message board.  This is exactly what this place is for on May 2nd.  Talk about what has happened during the offseason and give our opinions on it.   The OP is giving his opinion of what has happened.  People agree.  People disagree.  
 

my point: saying that we won’t know for sure until the season SHOULD be a given.  I don’t think that should be used as a counter argument.  Nothing can be proven until the games are played.  This is just convo