Best 5 Offensive Lineman Could Be Interesting

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

41 minutes ago, Udubalum07 said:

This is a good topic with a lot of competition. Barring injuries I think Williams, ford, and Dawkins are pretty locked in. The competition comes with the other two spots between IB, Lamp, Bates, and mongo. I believe brown will be the swing tackle with Bates also being a possibility if Brown isn't ready yet to contribute.

 

I know bates wants to play center.  

Assuming the 5 of Dawkins-Mongo-Morse-Ford-Williams - that leaves 4-5 spots for Brown, Doyle, Lamp, Douglas, Boettger, Bates, Hart, and Anderson.

 

I'd assume hart is gone if they drafted 2 OT's.  Lamp seems like a good bet for a backup guard.  Bates can play center which no one else can.  

 

So brown and doyle are backup tackles - extra linemen in short yardage.  One is inactive on gameday

Lamp is backup guard on gameday.

Bates is backup center on gamedays.

 

That leaves maybe 1 spot for douglas, boettger, hart, and anderson.  Anderson probably heads to the PS.  My guess would be douglas or boettger. 

[Don Otreply]

10 hours ago, BubbaT said:

Feliciano is an average guard and center (and is paid like one). Since they couldn't run between the tackles with Morse, Feliciano and Boettger pretty much at all and since they got their lunch eaten by good D tackles all season (Are Chris Jones and Frank Clark done chasing Josh yet) upgrades with better athletes (ie higher draft picks...look at the new OT's this year) seemed logical. It is doubtful drafted interior O linemen would start in 2021 but if you get them in and on the roster, 2022 is possible.  Morse and Feliciano might be feisty and experienced but both are both candidates to be released after this season. Frankly they are just ok players.  Bates has taken exactly 1 series at center in a regular game (and they replaced him with Feliciano). He's been their backup tackle mostly. If he is their heir apparent at center, fine but I'll wait to see him play there a little before I coronate him.  He seems like a useful backup player and i think Feliciano would be too. Morse's concussions and salary make him expendable.  If you want to continue with meh guys in the middle of your offensive line,  that's ok by me but I'd prefer cheaper and more athletic upgrades. With the contracts they are paying to Allen and Edmunds and perhaps Oliver after next year, average mid level free agent types like they've signed aren't feasible and will keep them from getting to where they want to go.  

Ok bubba,

[1ManRaid]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:41 PM, BubbaT said:

Ok, it's 2022. Who is our center? Thought they might draft a developmental one. 

 

Pretty sure I read a draft grade from NFL.com that said they could easily see that guard we drafted being our starting center within a couple years.

[Ya Digg?]

11 hours ago, BubbaT said:

Feliciano is an average guard and center (and is paid like one). Since they couldn't run between the tackles with Morse, Feliciano and Boettger pretty much at all and since they got their lunch eaten by good D tackles all season (Are Chris Jones and Frank Clark done chasing Josh yet) upgrades with better athletes (ie higher draft picks...look at the new OT's this year) seemed logical. It is doubtful drafted interior O linemen would start in 2021 but if you get them in and on the roster, 2022 is possible.  Morse and Feliciano might be feisty and experienced but both are both candidates to be released after this season. Frankly they are just ok players.  Bates has taken exactly 1 series at center in a regular game (and they replaced him with Feliciano). He's been their backup tackle mostly. If he is their heir apparent at center, fine but I'll wait to see him play there a little before I coronate him.  He seems like a useful backup player and i think Feliciano would be too. Morse's concussions and salary make him expendable.  If you want to continue with meh guys in the middle of your offensive line,  that's ok by me but I'd prefer cheaper and more athletic upgrades. With the contracts they are paying to Allen and Edmunds and perhaps Oliver after next year, average mid level free agent types like they've signed aren't feasible and will keep them from getting to where they want to go.  

I'm with you on this.  I keep reading that Feliciano is our nastiest lineman and we need that nastiness.  While that could be true (but VERY debatable) there's also a reason why he was cheap.  I would rather have him as a backup and a spot starter - he's not good enough to be a full time starter.  There were several times last year where he was completely knocked on his butt and the play was blown up because of that.  Don't get me wrong, I think he should be on the team, but I don't like him as a starter.  Nasty and mean and tough (and whatever other superlatives people are throwing at him) are fine, but I would rather have someone in there who is good

[BillsVet]

For years I had hopes Buffalo would demonstrate a cogent long term plan across the roster and they're doing just that. 

 

The plan, as good teams follow, was to rebuild with a veteran while drafting their replacement.  It took a little longer, but this draft follows that strategy.

 

I'm pretty confident the plan is for Brown to slide into a starting role within 2 seasons. because you can't keep paying the 2 starting OT's what they are with a QB under a contract Josh is sure to receive.  Dawkins and Brown count 17.5M and 21.6M against the cap barring restructuring in 2021 and 2022 respectively. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:12 PM, unbillievable said:

they kept 9 O-linemen on the 53.

 

Dawkins-Doyle

Ford-Lamp

Morse

Feliciano-Bates

Williams-Brown

 

Boettger might stay if Morse gets IR'd, Cut, or Traded.

Ford can be the surprise cut, but I think he will stay for a few games (like Spain).

Anderson to PS.

 

Your starting lineup aligns with how I see the Bills having it penciled in as we approach camp.

 

It's not absolute - "everything is earned", but if you look at the allocation of Bills cap dollars:

-Boettger just signed his RFA tender for $2.13M

-Lamp signed a contract for vet minimum, $990k with $137k signing bonus (that may be a veteran salary benefit contract that only counts $850M against the cap)

I would say Lamp will get a chance to compete with Boettger for a slot on the roster, but Boettger is probably ahead of Lamp on the depth chart right now.

 

I would also say that Bates is ahead of Doyle right now, especially as he can play anywhere on the line.  Doyle's draft profile can be summarized as "has talent, needs work".  If they don't feel they can slide Doyle onto the PS (though they probably can), expect him to experience a traumatic hangnail requiring prolonged rehab at the end of camp and go on IR.

 

Also: don't sleep on Jamil Douglas competing at guard.  Feliciano was obviously playing hurt and hampered last season, but his run blocking was not up to par and he was getting beaten like a drum in pass protection at times.  Douglas was signed as a shot across the bow saying "we WILL have competent run blocking this year and either you or your replacement will provide it".  Douglas was signed as a backup with some starts on a tip-top run blocking team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

I'm with you on this.  I keep reading that Feliciano is our nastiest lineman and we need that nastiness.  While that could be true (but VERY debatable) there's also a reason why he was cheap.  I would rather have him as a backup and a spot starter - he's not good enough to be a full time starter.  There were several times last year where he was completely knocked on his butt and the play was blown up because of that.  Don't get me wrong, I think he should be on the team, but I don't like him as a starter.  Nasty and mean and tough (and whatever other superlatives people are throwing at him) are fine, but I would rather have someone in there who is good

 

With regard to Jon, keep in mind there's a reason why his team voted him the "Ed Block Courage" award.  He was absolutely not playing well at times last season, but I think he was playing more hurt than they wanted anyone to know.  There was an article about him in "Muscle and Fitness" magazine with some  jaw dropping tidbits:

Quote

The injury happened on a Wednesday, but by Friday I was already having surgery. They originally told me it about 16 weeks to recover — that would have been Week 12 — so knowing I would be able to get back on the field last season was great motivation.

It took about six weeks before I was able to pick up a dumbbell. We started with a 10 pounds on my bad pec, and 90 with the other. That went on for about two weeks. About eight weeks then I started doing like six, 50 pounds, 60 pounds. But honestly, I didn’t feel very strong the whole season.

Imagine facing off against fully healthy defensive linemen when you're a few weeks away from struggling to pick up a 10 pound dumbell with one arm.

 

You could tell in some of Feliciano's post-game media availabilities that he was playing doped up as well (there's something in the eyes and the facial expression), which ***** with the reaction times.

 

But, he played how he played, and that's part of the reason why the Bills signed Lamp and Douglas as "backup plans" at guard should Feliciano not return to form.

[Arm of Harm]

11 hours ago, H2o said:

Josh's rookie season the OL was a glaring weakness. Our starters were as follows:

 

Dawkins (LT) - Ryan Groy (LG) - Russell Bodine (C) - Vlad Ducasse (RG) - Jordan Mills (RT)

Depth: Conor McDermott, Wyatt Teller (made a mistake trading that one), Adam Redmond, John Miller, and Marshall Newhouse

 

Outside of Dawkins, that was an absolutely atrocious OL. Offensive even. No wonder we have so many highlights of Josh absolutely running for his life during his rookie season. We made one mistake in not keeping Teller, but such is life. 

 

Now, going into Josh's 4th year, our starting lineup consists of:

 

Dawkins (LT) - Ford/Lamp/Feliciano (LG) - Morse/Feliciano (C) - Ford/Lamp/Feliciano (RG) - Williams (RT)

Depth: Ford/Lamp (depending on which one does not crack the starting lineup), Brown, Doyle, Bates, Boettger, Anderson

 

It's night and day here with the talent level swing on the OL over the last 3 years. We have gone from it being one of the weakest spots on the team to one where us on the board are having convos about flipping guys for picks because there's just not enough room to keep them all. Beane and McDermott don't get enough credit in this area imo. The options we have for starters now and the depth behind them is really good. We also have guys with have the potential to plug in as starters at some point down the road over the course of their rookie contracts. Guys like Spencer Brown, Tommy Doyle, and Jack Anderson all have that potential according to all of the post-draft interviews I have seen. It's great "problem" to have. 

This OL is bursting and overflowing with depth. No question there. Also we have good starters for both OT spots. The problem as I see it is the starting positions for all three interior OL. Of the guys we have hopefully some step up and give us rock solid play for interior OL. We’ll see how this plays out. 

[2ForMacAdoo]

On 5/2/2021 at 4:50 PM, TheBeaneBandit said:

Master Bates supposedly has been training to be the heir apparent at center. I have no idea how he is viewed by the coaches though. It would be pretty great if he was up to the task though, he has good size imo.

Sure glad we have that dude, Master Bates.  On the other hand, we should release Ryan Bates; just not good enough with his hands. 

[billsfan89]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your starting lineup aligns with how I see the Bills having it penciled in as we approach camp.

 

It's not absolute - "everything is earned", but if you look at the allocation of Bills cap dollars:

-Boettger just signed his RFA tender for $2.13M

-Lamp signed a contract for vet minimum, $990k with $137k signing bonus (that may be a veteran salary benefit contract that only counts $850M against the cap)

I would say Lamp will get a chance to compete with Boettger for a slot on the roster, but Boettger is probably ahead of Lamp on the depth chart right now.

 

I would also say that Bates is ahead of Doyle right now, especially as he can play anywhere on the line.  Doyle's draft profile can be summarized as "has talent, needs work".  If they don't feel they can slide Doyle onto the PS (though they probably can), expect him to experience a traumatic hangnail requiring prolonged rehab at the end of camp and go on IR.

 

Also: don't sleep on Jamil Douglas competing at guard.  Feliciano was obviously playing hurt and hampered last season, but his run blocking was not up to par and he was getting beaten like a drum in pass protection at times.  Douglas was signed as a shot across the bow saying "we WILL have competent run blocking this year and either you or your replacement will provide it".  Douglas was signed as a backup with some starts on a tip-top run blocking team.

I don’t see why Ike is the odd man out, he played well to end last season the team also tendered him at a good salary. Not really sure why people are so high on Lamp making the roster over him.

[MrEpsYtown]

13 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I don’t see why Ike is the odd man out, he played well to end last season the team also tendered him at a good salary. Not really sure why people are so high on Lamp making the roster over him.

 

I like Lamp a lot. My stance is that the pedigree there is better than anyone else we have in the interior. He was a former standout left tackle who moved into guard because his arm length. He's dealt with injuries, but his RAS numbers are awesome and he finally played a full season. His is more athletic and stronger than any of the other guys he is competing with and is an excellent pass blocker. And he is still young, just a few month older than Boettger. Lamp is better than Boettger, Ford, Feliciano, he is just they bigger risk due to his injury history. 

 

This team is going to play the guys who deserve to play. They ate that Quinton Spain contract last year because he didn't deserve the spot. What they are paying Boettger and Feliciano is inconsequential to this discussion 

[BigAl2526]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:18 AM, GunnerBill said:

Williams is the starter in 2021 but I think nothing is guaranteed beyond that. His contract is easily escapable after this year so if they think Brown is ready he could be one of the easier cap cuts. 

Or trade'

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:11 AM, Ya Digg? said:

I'm with you on this.  I keep reading that Feliciano is our nastiest lineman and we need that nastiness.  While that could be true (but VERY debatable) there's also a reason why he was cheap.  I would rather have him as a backup and a spot starter - he's not good enough to be a full time starter.  There were several times last year where he was completely knocked on his butt and the play was blown up because of that.  Don't get me wrong, I think he should be on the team, but I don't like him as a starter.  Nasty and mean and tough (and whatever other superlatives people are throwing at him) are fine, but I would rather have someone in there who is good

 

I rewatched the KC game. Morse was abused. D Williams also got beat badly a few times. Feliciano and Boettger held their own. I loved that Buffalo wanted OL/DL as a strategy. KC/TN/INDY were able to be more physical, and I love building inside out when you have your QB in place. I'm just not sold on how OBD executed that strategy. IOL was a clear need, as was a 1T DT. Buffalo went DE/OT.

 

I think the OG battles this offseason will be among the best. Feliciano, Lamp, Ford, Boetgger and Anderson are all in position to take a starting role.

 

But honestly, what OG on the current roster is better than Feliciano? Maybe not saying much. I really wanted Buffalo to take an Interior Offensive Lineman in round 2-5 for this very reason. Anderson could be a dark horse, but passing on Creed Humphrey/ Wyatt Davis (2nd) and Ben Cleveland (3) when they did seemed like misses.

 

I hope Boogie and Brown make me eat my words. Until then let the OG battle royale commence!

 

 

[Locomark]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:30 PM, Max Fischer said:

Barring injury, there is a near 100% chance DW is the RT the entire year. I think Brown could be a good RT but he probably needs a year or two. 

Which draft pick would be an immediate starter on the OL?  Why do we assume Morse’s replacement will be a draft pick? And how is that “win now?”

My comment is they could have drafted someone like the Alabama kid in round 2 who could have started at guard ( win now) and played center next year (save money. 

[billsfan_34]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:09 AM, NickelCity said:

Darryl Williams' starting spot is quite safe. But Brown is a nice prospect. 

 

The guard spots should see a nice battle. I like Lamp. (I love Lamp?)

This may be an unpopular take, but my hope is Ford excels in year 3 and becomes that mauling guard we need in the run game. On to Morse, as good as he is in pass pro, he doesn’t do overly well when we run and his concussions are a concern. Feliciano as the starting center might be the better option. 

On 5/4/2021 at 10:35 AM, Don Otreply said:

Ok bubba,

Feliciano is much better than average.

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

This may be an unpopular take, but my hope is Ford excels in year 3 and becomes that mauling guard we need in the run game. On to Morse, as good as he is in pass pro, he doesn’t do overly well when we run and his concussions are a concern. Feliciano as the starting center might be the better option. 

Feliciano is much better than average.

Yes he is, this team didn’t go 13-3 because the guards suck, as many seem to believe..., Morse certainly has that concussion thing, but he was good at run blocking the season before this past one, O line injuries and run game schemes are most of why our run game suffered this past season, Beane said as much in the season end PC, to me it’s odd that some haven’t grasped this, 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I think Darryl Williams job is safe for this year at least unless he really ***** the bed. Brown seems to have a very high ceiling from what I've read and seen on him (I had no clue about the player before the draft) but also is a project in every sense of the word and even though I'm not saying he can't pick up things fast and take over the RT position right away, the odds are against him since Williams already knows the playbook and is a veteran in this league. I think the Interior OL is the more interesting at both RG and LG imo. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I like Lamp a lot. My stance is that the pedigree there is better than anyone else we have in the interior. He was a former standout left tackle who moved into guard because his arm length. He's dealt with injuries, but his RAS numbers are awesome and he finally played a full season. His is more athletic and stronger than any of the other guys he is competing with and is an excellent pass blocker.

 

I don't want to argue "more athletic and stronger" at this point (don't bet the rent money Lamp against Boettger though) but keep in mind that after playing 16 games at LG, the Chargers let him walk and he wound up signing a contract for vet minimum with very little guaranteed, one month into FA. 

 

Ask yourself why is that, if he's more athletic and stronger than any of the guys he's competing with on a decidedly average interior OL and such a great pass blocker?

 

21 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

And he is still young, just a few month older than Boettger. Lamp is better than Boettger, Ford, Feliciano, he is just they bigger risk due to his injury history. 

 

That's your opinion, but whether it's Bobby Johnson's opinion or Brandon Beane's opinion is TBD.  I don't think they agree with you - though the reason they brought him in is that every season is a new year and they're hedging their bets in case their expectations for Ford and Feliciano are not fulfilled.

 

BTW what's Lamp's history playing elsewhere than LG?

 

21 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

This team is going to play the guys who deserve to play. They ate that Quinton Spain contract last year because he didn't deserve the spot. What they are paying Boettger and Feliciano is inconsequential to this discussion 

 

I agree with you that the Bills will not let $$ stop them from making playing or roster decisions based on skill.  So it's inconsequential to the discussion of who is the best during the season, but it probably reflects the team's current perception of value going into the season, wouldn't you agree?

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

This may be an unpopular take, but my hope is Ford excels in year 3 and becomes that mauling guard we need in the run game.

 

Agree that is my hope.  I have to say that his run blocking last year was not good, but perhaps he was fighting through hampering injuries.

In which case his injury history is a concern.

 

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

On to Morse, as good as he is in pass pro, he doesn’t do overly well when we run

 

Disagree.  When used in the run game according to his skill set, Morse is an excellent run blocker.

 

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Feliciano as the starting center might be the better option. 

Feliciano is much better than average.

 

I love me some Mongo, but No on both points.  I thought he showed better in 2019 than this past season, so perhaps injuries hampered him, but he's not a better center than Morse and some of his blocking (both pass and run) last season was best described as "porous".  Some of his shotgun snaps left me saying "it's a good thing our QB is 6'5" with long arms"

 

People don't realize that Feliciano staying an extra game at C once Morse returned may have had as much to do with Feliciano as with Morse once Ford went out for the season (he's said that C was easier for him to play than G with the injury)

[Matt_In_NH]

I think Williams is safe this year but the if one or both the rookies plays well Williams could get moved next year.  Heck, as much as I love him as a player, I dont think its out of the question for Dawkins to get moved before his contract is up.  They drafted guys at positions that have high end contracts, that was by design.

[GunnerBill]

On 5/4/2021 at 4:11 PM, Ya Digg? said:

I'm with you on this.  I keep reading that Feliciano is our nastiest lineman and we need that nastiness.  While that could be true (but VERY debatable) there's also a reason why he was cheap.  I would rather have him as a backup and a spot starter - he's not good enough to be a full time starter.  There were several times last year where he was completely knocked on his butt and the play was blown up because of that.  Don't get me wrong, I think he should be on the team, but I don't like him as a starter.  Nasty and mean and tough (and whatever other superlatives people are throwing at him) are fine, but I would rather have someone in there who is good

 

He is a starting level player but he is upgradeable. The problem (to the extent there is one) with the interior is not Feliciano, as much as I think Bills fans tend to overrate him. You can't have high picks and high $$s at every spot and Feliciano is a reasonably priced vet guard who they are getting reasonable vet guard play out of. Agree that top level interior rushers cause him issues but that is life. The issue is that the other two interior spots are being filled by a high $$s FA center who is underperforming his contract and a 2nd round draft pick who is underperforming his draft slot. The Bills have allocated resources to those interior spots at the C and LG positions. The problem is they haven't played up to the assets spent on them. Blaming the one guy they haven't allocated big assets to is slightly missing the point.