newcam2012 Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 56 minutes ago, DrPJax said: I respect your knowledge and know you have been a long time fan as I have ( myself from the 60’s) and I admire this front office so far. However , there is no way to compare them to a front office that placed 4 players in the HOF ( and I think Tasker and Bisquit deserve to be there as well) , had a HOF coach in two different leagues , placed the Gm himself in the HOF, won 4 straight AFC TITLES going to an unprecedented 4 straight Superbowls, managed to keep those teams driven despite their success and brought a sense of pride to Western New York that didn’t reappear ( related to the Bills) until last year. Yes , there was no free agency but for the Bills still to be the only team to go to 4 straight Superbowls and watching the Pats own the division for 20 years with their core intact yet could not repeat that accomplishment, speaks volumes of that front office and organization while dealing with a known frugal owner by many accounts. Polian also repeated his success in Carolina and Indy, so in my eyes Beane is just starting out and still has much to prove. The d line failures and lack of a run game that kept us a significant step behind both KC and Tampa are errors that you just can’t chose to be in denial of and say there were no issues with this roster and team building. Are they headed in the right direction ; it certainly looks that way but let’s see how we do next year with both KC and Tampa to play during the regular season. In the playoffs we could have easily lost to the Colts , got a key interception to turn the Ravens game around when it looked like they would tie us , and KC throttled us in both games last year. So this roster needs work. Polian Et.al. Built the roster and despite drafting 31 st all those years, kept the roster on top of the AFC. One AFC East title does not make a dynasty and let’s see how we do fixing that d and getting a decent run game as teams are drafting to combat our passing game while loading up on tight end talent as they have seen us get burned time and time again by TE’s in the seams and with a power running attack (the Browns may have beaten us had they gotten the chance with their run game which I believe they beat us with at our last meeting and now their defensive draft class looks outstanding ). We got fortunate with a Cam fumble as we were going to lose that game and by the time we played them the second time the wheels had come off as that game was finally us beating them soundly. This off season they loaded up on tight ends , backs , future Qb, and beefed up their pass rush thru the draft, free agency , and got back guys who opted out. Just saying we are in for a battle to retain the East as most people are stating both the Fins and Jets had good drafts and I think the Pats will be a very tough defensive unit compared to last year. We need to at least get to one Super Bowl before any claim this office is better than the one our legacy was built by. I like and respect Mcbeane and the future LOOKS bright ; let’s just see if they can actually make that promise into reality and then I am willing to consider your premise. Just thinking it doesn’t make it so. I will say Beane bringing in Diggs reminds me of Polian swinging the deal for Bennett and both produced major results on their respective sides of the ball. You may be on to something and all I am saying with all due respect is it’s early and time will tell! It’s going to be an entertaining ride no matter what! 😊😉 One of the best threads I've read here. Exceptional read.
SCBills Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 17 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: I used to really enjoy draft "grades" right after a draft was completed....but I've come to understand that grading these right after they happen is a fools errand. That said....from the outside looking in....looking at the Bills as team that will compete with mine for the AFC title.....I don't think this draft went that well for the Bills. Again...this is all just my own opinion....I don't know your team as well as you all do so I am sure I am missing some information about your roster etc ...but I thought that the Bills would go into this draft looking for opertunities to upgrade the pass rush, the TE position, and the RB position. I also thought Interior D line might come into play as well, but not the most pressing need. It seemed like the RB's that the Bills might have wanted, just kept getting picked a few spots in front of Buffalo. I am almost positive the Broncos moved up in round 2 to get in front of you guys for Williams. Some of you folks here liked Michael Carter of NC, better than Williams, and the Jets ended up with him. It's not to say Singletary and Moss aren't good backs....but they aren't home run hitters. I thought maybe the Bills might take a shot at Friermuth when the time came..or maybe one of the later guys like Breven....but no TE taken. I am not familiar with your O line situation, but clearly you all added some guys there. I have no idea how this will turn out...the two DE's may be awesome....or maybe one of this....maybe this turns you all into a fearsome pass rushing machine and Beane got it right.....He's been right quite a bit since he's beein there...so certainly I'd defer to whatever he did and trust it......all I am saying is I'm not sure these picks move the needle that much....or enough to take the next step. I think Etienne was on our radar, but aside from him - I highly doubt we wanted a RB in this draft. Same for Tight End. The staff REALLY likes Knox. Nobody after Pitts seemed like a guy they’d want. Pass rush, for sure - and in regards to interior pass rush, we now have 4 DE’s, the two draft picks, Obada and Epenesa, who can kick inside on passing downs. I really couldn’t tell you what the original plan was going into the Draft.. we dont have any glaring holes. They wanted to upgrade the lines and add speed. Lines definitely got upgraded. Speed, eh, outside of Stevenson, not so much. Swing Tackle was definitely a low key need, as Bobby Hart was our backup before the draft. Then we always take secondary with a later pick or two. Cant really disagree with much of what we did, aside from my personal hope - given who was available - would’ve been Elijah Moore at 30. That said, the double up on pass rushers made me like the Rousseau pick more, and I wanted Carl Lawson in FA, so I’m cool with getting his clone in Basham. 1
Mr. Wonderful Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: For whatever reason this year’s class seems like the most forgettable Bills draft I can remember. I sure hope I’m wrong. I hear you. I live in south Florida and after the draft heard UM coach Manny Diaz raving about Jaelan Phillips in all facets of his game and when Rousseau was mentioned all I heard was discussion about his long arms nicknaming him Inspector Gadget makes me worry a little. Like all drafts though, no one knows. Some of these guys might be able to play, some may not. Only time will tell. 1
Comebackkid Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Buffalo619 said: Not a great draft year. Needed to upgrade RB and CB and failed to do so. Etienne being scooped really changed our plans. Win some, lose some. i dont think Etienne was ever really in the mix.. Beane said all along that he thought the issue wasnt in the running backs themselves. which seems to be evident in the fact he took three offensive linemen. the media may have thrown out the whole Bills want Etienne thing but dont believe everything you hear outside the bills org. Edited May 2, 2021 by Comebackkid
Arm of Harm Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, DrPJax said: I respect your knowledge and know you have been a long time fan as I have ( myself from the 60’s) and I admire this front office so far. However , there is no way to compare them to a front office that placed 4 players in the HOF ( and I think Tasker and Bisquit deserve to be there as well) , had a HOF coach in two different leagues , placed the Gm himself in the HOF, won 4 straight AFC TITLES going to an unprecedented 4 straight Superbowls, managed to keep those teams driven despite their success and brought a sense of pride to Western New York that didn’t reappear ( related to the Bills) until last year. Yes , there was no free agency but for the Bills still to be the only team to go to 4 straight Superbowls and watching the Pats own the division for 20 years with their core intact yet could not repeat that accomplishment, speaks volumes of that front office and organization while dealing with a known frugal owner by many accounts. Polian also repeated his success in Carolina and Indy, so in my eyes Beane is just starting out and still has much to prove. The d line failures and lack of a run game that kept us a significant step behind both KC and Tampa are errors that you just can’t chose to be in denial of and say there were no issues with this roster and team building. Are they headed in the right direction ; it certainly looks that way but let’s see how we do next year with both KC and Tampa to play during the regular season. In the playoffs we could have easily lost to the Colts , got a key interception to turn the Ravens game around when it looked like they would tie us , and KC throttled us in both games last year. So this roster needs work. One difference between the Polian era versus McDermott is that Polian inherited some good long term building block players from prior GMs. In 1980 the Bills drafted OG Jim Ritcher, who was an important member of all the Super Bowl teams. In 1983 they drafted Jim Kelly and Daryl Talley (LB), both of whom were also integral to those Super Bowls. Polian took the reins in 1985. Which players from the 2020 Bills team were around before McDermott took over? Jerry Hughes comes to mind but I think he’s the only one. That said you make good points in your post, and I’m not overlooking the fact that some of Beane’s early picks haven’t lived up to their draft position. Edited May 2, 2021 by Arm of Harm
newcam2012 Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, Comebackkid said: i dont think Etienne was ever really in the mix.. Beane said all along that he thought the issue wasnt in the running backs themselves. which seems to be evident in the fact he took three offensive linemen. the media may have thrown out the whole Bills want Etienne thing but dont believe everything you hear outside the bills org. Why pick up Brieda then? Neither Singletary nor Moss scare a defense. Singletary can't score tds and Moss lacks explosive speed. Brieda brings that to the table. Who knows about Etienne? If he dropped to the Bills at 30 my gut says they would have ran to the podium. Personally, he's the guy I wanted. Just ask yourself Etienne or Rousseau? Seems like a no brainer to me. If the Bills were so confident in Rousseau then why double up with another DE? Oliver who was hyped up to be the next Bruce Smith and Epanesa are on the roster. Something isn't adding up to me. Are they hoping they get one right? 1 1
Alphadawg7 Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 2 hours ago, newcam2012 said: Agree about winning in the trenches. The Bills needed to improve on both sides of the ball. This draft will mostly likely do that. The real question is by how much, how long, and what kind of positive impact? Personally, I'm not sure how much of an significant immediate impact any of these guys will have. This draft seems to be a longer term building process which I'm ok with. However, most of us want to make that super bowl appearance and hoist that Lombardi trophy. I'm not convinced this draft did that for this season. Any input is welcomed. Well our young guys taking another step this year is going to be improvement. We also are going to have very little turnover this year compared to other teams. We did add some players that can definitely make us better this year too. And I am not sure who they could have taken at their picks that suddenly become game changing to our season next year.
machine gun kelly Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) Everything needed to be said has been said so I’ll just add, Addison, I hope you have you’re go bag as you’re gone. Save another $5 mil., and if they really want to take a shot at a vet CB, Sherman could fit this scheme even at his age. He couldn’t be worse than Norman. I’m not in love with the idea of Sherman, but I can see them kicking the tires on him. I don’t know enough about the UDFA’s to comment, but I expect we’ll sign several in the next week. Edited May 2, 2021 by machine gun kelly
Norcalbillsfan Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 Honestly this draft haul is tough to give a grade, most of these guys are "unlocked potential" so you really have to wait and see. Cuz if you grade it on immediate play time then this class could be an F. But in 3 years if just 2 of these guys reach their ceilings your talking about an A++. Imagine in 2 years and both Greg and boogie turn into the freaks they have all the tools to be. I wanted a CB2 pretty bad but beane obviously wanted a pass rush on rookie deals, and got stronger potential at OL. Can't complain there.
Aussie Joe Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said: I used to really enjoy draft "grades" right after a draft was completed....but I've come to understand that grading these right after they happen is a fools errand. That said....from the outside looking in....looking at the Bills as team that will compete with mine for the AFC title.....I don't think this draft went that well for the Bills. Again...this is all just my own opinion....I don't know your team as well as you all do so I am sure I am missing some information about your roster etc ...but I thought that the Bills would go into this draft looking for opertunities to upgrade the pass rush, the TE position, and the RB position. I also thought Interior D line might come into play as well, but not the most pressing need. It seemed like the RB's that the Bills might have wanted, just kept getting picked a few spots in front of Buffalo. I am almost positive the Broncos moved up in round 2 to get in front of you guys for Williams. Some of you folks here liked Michael Carter of NC, better than Williams, and the Jets ended up with him. It's not to say Singletary and Moss aren't good backs....but they aren't home run hitters. I thought maybe the Bills might take a shot at Friermuth when the time came..or maybe one of the later guys like Breven....but no TE taken. I am not familiar with your O line situation, but clearly you all added some guys there. I have no idea how this will turn out...the two DE's may be awesome....or maybe one of this....maybe this turns you all into a fearsome pass rushing machine and Beane got it right.....He's been right quite a bit since he's beein there...so certainly I'd defer to whatever he did and trust it......all I am saying is I'm not sure these picks move the needle that much....or enough to take the next step. Im shocked you don’t like the Bills draft.... Maybe they should have moved up to 19 to pick a RB like you predicted in your mock if memory serves ... you ridiculed the Josh Allen pick too right? Edited May 2, 2021 by Aussie Joe 1
Norcalbillsfan Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: Why pick up Brieda then? Neither Singletary nor Moss scare a defense. Singletary can't score tds and Moss lacks explosive speed. Brieda brings that to the table. Who knows about Etienne? If he dropped to the Bills at 30 my gut says they would have ran to the podium. Personally, he's the guy I wanted. Just ask yourself Etienne or Rousseau? Seems like a no brainer to me. If the Bills were so confident in Rousseau then why double up with another DE? Oliver who was hyped up to be the next Bruce Smith and Epanesa are on the roster. Something isn't adding up to me. Are they hoping they get one right? I guess we won't know if beane wanted Etienne or not, maybe he was the player they referred to the got picked before them, but it sounds like they wanted boogie pretty bad, he kept them from trading out. I dont think that it's they didn't believe in Rousseau, my opinion is beane wanted to get better at the edge rush and the bills love rotation on the line. And I won't doubt if Rousseau gets bounced all over the line on passing downs. I think beane sees a potential of just assaulting opposing QBs with rotating fresh athletic freaks that attack your line in different ways. And maybe most important to beane, premium positions all on rookie deals. 1
John from Riverside Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I’ve been seeing a lot of people commenting about how we didn’t get “day 1” contributors. We are a 13-3 team that went the AFCCG. We have a strong roster, rookies generally aren’t coming in from rounds 3 and 5 or later and making an immediate impact on a team this good. When you have mid round rookies as significant contributors it generally means your team isn’t very good. So I don’t get all this obsession about other people who are concerned some of our draft picks are going to be developed and learn behind veterans to be groomed as replacements in next year or two. Even first snd second round picks when picking at the end of the round aren’t always going to have an automatic spot to come in and start on good rosters. Best way to develop rookies anyway is to not force them to play before they are ready. We are in a good spot with good players these guys will learn from and hopefully be ready to emerge as starters and major contributors when the vets are no longer on this team. People dont want to hear that but your right..... You will get some contribution right away out of some of these players......Greg R. will play some....Boogie might actually play even more even though he a pick behind. The speedster WR does fill an immediate need. We have a TON of veterans on this team that just played on a AFC Championship roster. Where will this come into play? Injuries.......you probably will see some of these young guys come in vs using street free agents. People need to keep in mind this is the process of a good team with a unicorn QB that has to be paid......the salary cap will prevent us from going after the top free agents so we have to GROW them. 1
Zerovoltz Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said: Im shocked you don’t like the Bills draft.... Maybe they should have moved up to 19 to pick a RB like you predicted in your mock if memory serves ... you ridiculed the Josh Allen pick too right? I think that the Bills should have tried to get one of the 3 down type dynamic RB that were at the top of this draft. I know it was rumored they liked Ettienne...but I think Williams would have been really good in Buffalo. Either way...YES...I do think the Bills should have actively pursued Ettienne, Najee Harris or Williams. .....and your memory is serving you mostly well...I don't think my comments here about Allen would be considered "ridicule"....but if you mean that I was critical of that pick and that I thought Allen would fail, then yes...you would be correct. 1
Aussie Joe Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: I think that the Bills should have tried to get one of the 3 down type dynamic RB that were at the top of this draft. I know it was rumored they liked Ettienne...but I think Williams would have been really good in Buffalo. Either way...YES...I do think the Bills should have actively pursued Ettienne, Najee Harris or Williams. .....and your memory is serving you mostly well...I don't think my comments here about Allen would be considered "ridicule"....but if you mean that I was critical of that pick and that I thought Allen would fail, then yes...you would be correct. To be fair, you ridiculed the Allen pick initially but as I have said before you have changed your tune and I think you have come to respect him...Also appreciate your knowledge and that you have a good sense of humour unlike a lot of other people hanging out here ... I do think though that you subtlety have been trying to troll us with your mock drafts... maybe we should take it as a compliment that you are doing it here and not elsewhere I guess... Edited May 2, 2021 by Aussie Joe
GunnerBill Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Mountain Man said: The Broncos didn't get ahead of the Bills......it occurred well after the Bills 1st round pick and well before the 2nd They were already ahead of the Bills by like 20 spots. They moved up to get ahead of someone but it sure as hell wasn't Buffalo. 30 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: I think that the Bills should have tried to get one of the 3 down type dynamic RB that were at the top of this draft. I know it was rumored they liked Ettienne...but I think Williams would have been really good in Buffalo. Either way...YES...I do think the Bills should have actively pursued Ettienne, Najee Harris or Williams. .....and your memory is serving you mostly well...I don't think my comments here about Allen would be considered "ridicule"....but if you mean that I was critical of that pick and that I thought Allen would fail, then yes...you would be correct. Brandon Beane pretty much told us he wasn't interested in Najee or Williams. I think they would have been interested in Etienne but you do not trade up in round 1 for running backs. 3
UKBillFan Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: To be fair, you ridiculed the Allen pick initially but as I have said before you have changed your tune and I think you have come to respect him...Also appreciate your knowledge and that you have a good sense of humour unlike a lot of other people hanging out here ... I do think though that you subtlety have been trying to troll us with your mock drafts... maybe we should take it as a compliment that you are doing it here and not elsewhere I guess... To be fair, read the worst take thread - a lot of people loathed the Josh Allen pick at the time.
Aussie Joe Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: To be fair, read the worst take thread - a lot of people loathed the Josh Allen pick at the time. True... but if you are a fan of another team, do you join that teams message board to pile it on ... particularly given the history the year before with the Mahomes trade? Edited May 2, 2021 by Aussie Joe 1
BullBuchanan Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) It was between a b and a c+ for me, but I gave it a B. I don't have any problems with the players they picked, but I don't love that they picked them. I'm not against the idea of double dipping if you need to nail a position (especially something like QB), but it's a bit weird that they chose to do it on DE and OT. We have two excellent OT's locked up long term, and I really would have preferred going after players that can help us now instead of 2-3 years from now. As for the DE's, I mean they spent a 2nd on Epenesa last year, so 3 picks in the top 60 going to DE's is a bit much there. Rousseau is a really intriguing physical specimen, but I hate drafting a project in the 1rst round. Basham looks ready to contribute right away though. I would have preferred they find a way to get JOK - either trade down or up, as I believe he would have given us an X-factor impact player that we sorely lack on D. He could have been used to cover TE's and do pass rushing to offset the discipline knock on him. I also would have used all the picks I had at the back of the draft to try to get into the 4th or another 5th, because I think it's not impossible that none of the final 4 picks make this team - at least to start. tl;dr They could end up with 3+ eventual starters from this class, but not sure they help us make a SB push in the next 2 years. Edited May 2, 2021 by BullBuchanan 2
eball Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, DrPJax said: [snip] I like and respect Mcbeane and the future LOOKS bright ; let’s just see if they can actually make that promise into reality and then I am willing to consider your premise. Just thinking it doesn’t make it so. I will say Beane bringing in Diggs reminds me of Polian swinging the deal for Bennett and both produced major results on their respective sides of the ball. You may be on to something and all I am saying with all due respect is it’s early and time will tell! It’s going to be an entertaining ride no matter what! First of all, nice response. My opinion stems from how different the league is now then it was when Polian ruled the roost. I’ve heard Polian opine on many NFL radio shows over the past decade and I’m not sure he has the same sort of success in this era. Beane and McDermott have built a top-notch organization that appears primed to be a force for years to come. There is also a level of internal respect that draws in talented people. I think it’s pretty well known that Polian was a “my way or the highway” kind of guy. And just so we’re clear: Polian didn’t draft Jim Kelly and he didn’t draft Bruce Smith. He’s a HOF GM and deserves tons of credit for the Bills’ Super Bowl teams, but there’s always a bit of luck involved as well. I could not possibly be more impressed with Brandon Beane. 1
billsfan1959 Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: True... but if you are a fan of another team, do you join that teams message board to pile it on ? The timing of when he joined this board and the content of his initial posts suggested he joined this board with the specific intent to troll this team about Allen. JMO, but I always suspected he was a Bills fan prior to the Mahomes pick and jumped on the Mahomes bandwagon.
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