Who did you want in the 2nd round when the Bills were on the clock?

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Was fine with the Basham pick.  Would’ve liked Asante Samuel Jr instead of Rousseau though.  Two DEs to start this draft though?  Ridiculous to see the draft capital and free agent contracts poured into the DL while other needs to unaddressed. 

They’re getting ready for life with a 40M salary on their books.  Planning ahead while also injecting the pass rush with some youth, size and power. They won’t be able to spend big on DL soon.  I just hope these guys are good enough to be a “good pass rush”.  They don’t have to be dominant, but good enough.  I think we may see a lot of Rousseau and Oliver inside on obvious passing downs in the future

[SCBills]

I was hoping for an offensive weapon, but the draft didn’t break that way for anyone I thought we’d want...

 

I didn’t think there was any way we would take another DE, but Basham is legit. If you watched them play, dude screamed off the tv.  Just an absolute monster.  
 

Edited May 1, 2021 by SCBills

[Aussie Joe]

Hate it that the Chiefs got Humphrey 2 picks later...

 

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

They’re getting ready for life with a 40M salary on their books.  Planning ahead while also injecting the pass rush with some youth, size and power. They won’t be able to spend big on DL soon.  I just hope these guys are good enough to be a “good pass rush”.  They don’t have to be dominant, but good enough.  I think we may see a lot of Rousseau and Oliver inside on obvious passing downs in the future

I get what you’re saying, but life with a $40M QB has to include help at other positions beyond DL.  An OT that’s going to be a swing tackle for at least 2 years here in the 3rd isn’t making me feel better either.

 

I am sure that the plan for the future is to drop Rousseau inside on passing downs with Oliver and have Epenesa and Basham on the outside.  But where’s the plan for the secondary?  Or the WR corps?  Or the interior OL?  We need help there THIS year.

 

The attention to the DL just seems excessive.  So many resources are being poured into it with only limited success so far.  Obviously we won’t know about the more recent additions for another year at least.  But wow.  The Bills DL really needs to be the strength of the defense in a way it hasn’t in order to justify everything. 

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Dyami was sticking out on my board. 

I wanted that Diggs compliment too. Wanted Marshall Jr., but Tamorrion Terry is still out there.

[H2o]

I didn't really have a preference at all tbh. I was hoping JOK, Marshall, or Freiermuth would fall into our lap, but it didn't happen. I'm good with Basham. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

11 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I REALLY like this pick.  Eventually, I think we will see Epenesa, Rousseau, Oliver and Basham on obvious passing downs.  That unit has some length (especially Rousseau rushing inside) and power.  They will lose little in run stopping ability with that group as well.

 

 

Heck, just make that our base line and swap in star and Phillips on short yardage. 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I wanted that Diggs compliment too. Wanted Marshall Jr., but Tamorrion Terry is still out there.

 

I checked how many picks ahead of us Marshall went again this morning and it was only 2. I did that because as per Beane's presser they had a deal to move back done 3 picks before we went on the clock and only 1 guy - Basham - who they were going to pass on that trade for. So even had Marshall lasted it sounds like the Bills would have passed. 

[Solomon Grundy]

If the Bills get him then I’m good with anything else they do today. 

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I checked how many picks ahead of us Marshall went again this morning and it was only 2. I did that because as per Beane's presser they had a deal to move back done 3 picks before we went on the clock and only 1 guy - Basham - who they were going to pass on that trade for. So even had Marshall lasted it sounds like the Bills would have passed. 

I wonder if NFC team was Philly and if trade was for Ertz?

[GunnerBill]

40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I get what you’re saying, but life with a $40M QB has to include help at other positions beyond DL.  An OT that’s going to be a swing tackle for at least 2 years here in the 3rd isn’t making me feel better either.

 

I am sure that the plan for the future is to drop Rousseau inside on passing downs with Oliver and have Epenesa and Basham on the outside.  But where’s the plan for the secondary?  Or the WR corps?  Or the interior OL?  We need help there THIS year.

 

The attention to the DL just seems excessive.  So many resources are being poured into it with only limited success so far.  Obviously we won’t know about the more recent additions for another year at least.  But wow.  The Bills DL really needs to be the strength of the defense in a way it hasn’t in order to justify everything. 

 

Interior OL isn't the best class for me and I don't think we have a problem there with starters - we have 4 guys capable of starting at guard and 2 capable center options (with Mongo counted twice). What we would benefit from is a high end guy and there just weren't those folks in this class. I suspect WR and S will both be addressed today. They are two of the deepest positions remaining IMO.

 

Corner is a worry. They might have to go back the vet unsigned FA route for depth there. 

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

 I wonder if NFC team was Philly and if trade was for Ertz?

 

According to Beane it was just for picks. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Was fine with the Basham pick.  Would’ve liked Asante Samuel Jr instead of Rousseau though.  Two DEs to start this draft though?  Ridiculous to see the draft capital and free agent contracts poured into the DL while other needs to unaddressed. 

 

 

Our other needs have all been addressed. Perhaps not to your satisfaction, which is fair enough, but they've been addressed by bringing our own guys back, with FAs, etc.

 

At CB for instance they re-signed Levi Wallace.

 

Two DEs if they were the best players available makes total sense. BPA at positions of need is the smartest draft philosophy. And even after Rousseau we still had a need there, short-term and long-term.

 

Drafting for need is the worst draft strategy, the refuge of the desperate.

 

FA is the strategy best used for targeting positional areas for improvement. And the offseason isn't over. Not even close.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Interior OL isn't the best class for me and I don't think we have a problem there with starters - we have 4 guys capable of starting at guard and 2 capable center options (with Mongo counted twice). What we would benefit from is a high end guy and there just weren't those folks in this class. I suspect WR and S will both be addressed today. They are two of the deepest positions remaining IMO.

 

Corner is a worry. They might have to go back the vet unsigned FA route for depth there. 

 

According to Beane it was just for picks. 

A slew of centers were sitting there for us in the third and center is definitely a big need IMO.  It’s certainly a bigger one than a potential RT replacement in 2-3 years.  I do not love the pick either.  He’s a very raw but athletically gifted prospect, but was he really sticking out on their board?

 

I agree on the CB situation.  I just don’t get taking two DEs and no CBs.  And not just this year.  CB has been too much of an afterthought besides Tre for the last 4 seasons.  We have no depth now and we’ve only got Wallace and Johnson under contract for this season.  CBs get dinged and with three usually on the field I am ill at ease with our situation there. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Our other needs have all been addressed. Perhaps not to your satisfaction, which is fair enough, but they've been addressed by bringing our own guys back, with FAs, etc.

 

At CB for instance they re-signed Levi Wallace.

 

Two DEs if they were the best players available makes total sense. BPA at positions of need is the smartest draft philosophy. And even after Rousseau we still had a need there, short-term and long-term.

 

Drafting for need is the worst draft strategy, the refuge of the desperate.

 

FA is the strategy best used for targeting positional areas for improvement. And the offseason isn't over. Not even close.

See above for my thoughts on CB, etc.  I’m not advocating a purely need driven drafting strategy so please don’t frame it as such.  My main points are simply: 1) that we’ve invested massively in the DL both in terms of cap space and premium draft picks - with not great ROI thus far - and 2) this has been at the expense of other important components of our team.  That includes free agency.   It doesn’t help that Basham is the only pick I’ve liked so far this year. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by BarleyNY

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

A slew of centers were sitting there for us in the third and center is definitely a big need IMO.  It’s certainly a bigger one than a potential RT replacement in 2-3 years.  I do not love the pick either.  He’s a very raw but athletically gifted prospect, but was he really sticking out on their board?

 

I agree on the CB situation.  I just don’t get taking two DEs and no CBs.  And not just this year.  CB has been too much of an afterthought besides Tre for the last 4 seasons.  We have no depth now and we’ve only got Wallace and Johnson under contract for this season.  CBs get dinged and with three usually on the field I am ill at ease with our situation there. 

 

The board didn't fall our way for corners. I know you mentioned Samuel but I really do not think he is a scheme fit here at all. 

 

On Brown - my guess is yes he was sticking out on their board knowing what they value. 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I get what you’re saying, but life with a $40M QB has to include help at other positions beyond DL.  An OT that’s going to be a swing tackle for at least 2 years here in the 3rd isn’t making me feel better either.

 

I am sure that the plan for the future is to drop Rousseau inside on passing downs with Oliver and have Epenesa and Basham on the outside.  But where’s the plan for the secondary?  Or the WR corps?  Or the interior OL?  We need help there THIS year.

 

The attention to the DL just seems excessive.  So many resources are being poured into it with only limited success so far.  Obviously we won’t know about the more recent additions for another year at least.  But wow.  The Bills DL really needs to be the strength of the defense in a way it hasn’t in order to justify everything. 

Just because the Bills spent poorly on DL in the past doesn’t mean that they should take a loss on that unit.  It’s clear that having a good DL is very important to a McD defense.  They invest heavily on DL in Carolina and they will do the same here.  They swung and missed last year and now they’re trying to double down on improving the pass rush.  
 

It’s a lot to invest in the DL, but many would agree that the DL is, without question, the most important unit on a football team, minus QB. You win in the tranches.  We’re trying to do that after trying unsuccessfully last year.  
 

I understand your point and why you’re upset, I’m not happy about the picks either, but I can say, I understand each of the picks.  

 

For me, it’s more about the players that they chose as opposed to the positions that they chose.  Boogie is a finesse rusher that is trapped in a power rushers body.  Rousseau is a 3T trapped in a DEs body.  Epenesa was a power rusher that they tried to turn into a 3-4 OLB.  I’m happy to invest in the DL as long as they are identifying and selecting good player’s.  I’m not confident that they’ve done that.  That is my only problem with the selections.  

[CorkScrewHill]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Our other needs have all been addressed. Perhaps not to your satisfaction, which is fair enough, but they've been addressed by bringing our own guys back, with FAs, etc.

 

At CB for instance they re-signed Levi Wallace.

 

Two DEs if they were the best players available makes total sense. BPA at positions of need is the smartest draft philosophy. And even after Rousseau we still had a need there, short-term and long-term.

 

Drafting for need is the worst draft strategy, the refuge of the desperate.

 

FA is the strategy best used for targeting positional areas for improvement. And the offseason isn't over. Not even close.

I would like to like this twice .. it is soooooo correct

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

See above for my thoughts on CB, etc.  I’m not advocating a purely need driven drafting strategy so please don’t frame it as such.  My main points are simply: 1) that we’ve invested massively in the DL both in terms of cap space and premium draft picks - with not great ROI thus far - and 2) this has been at the expense of other important components of our team.  That includes free agency.   It doesn’t help that Basham is the only pick I’ve liked so far this year. 

just because they’ve made bad decisions in the past along the DL doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t keep going back to the well and try to rectify their blunders.  Pass rush is the priority.  They didn’t spend much money in FA this season along the DL.  Most likely because of the price.  If they hit on these two fellas, than we’ll have 2-3 young DEs under contract for the next 4-5 years making pennies....which matters when your QB is making 40m a year. 
 

The only really “hole” we have is cb2 imo.  Take a look at the available FA CBs.  There are several that can be pinched on the cheap to patch up the hole for one year.  The draft didn’t fall in our favor with regards to CB.  In hindsight, we could’ve drafted Tyson Campbell- Basham - Perkins.  That would’ve been ideal.....but that’s in hindsight.  No one thought Perkins would be there at 93.  Rousseau was their Higher rated player and he was taken ahead of Campbell.  They clearly loved Basham as they passed up a trade down for him.  
 

  It would’ve been nice to add a Rb with some speed or a TE that can catch, but their positional value is nil and that’s why it doesn’t make sense to draft them when building for sustained success which a 40m QB.  
 

Regarding Spencer Brown, he could conceivably be our starter in 2022 if he improves enough.  Daryl Williams’ contract calls for a 3.6m dead cap of cut and a savings of 5.4M. 
 

 

43 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

A slew of centers were sitting there for us in the third and center is definitely a big need IMO.  It’s certainly a bigger one than a potential RT replacement in 2-3 years.  I do not love the pick either.  He’s a very raw but athletically gifted prospect, but was he really sticking out on their board?

 

I agree on the CB situation.  I just don’t get taking two DEs and no CBs.  And not just this year.  CB has been too much of an afterthought besides Tre for the last 4 seasons.  We have no depth now and we’ve only got Wallace and Johnson under contract for this season.  CBs get dinged and with three usually on the field I am ill at ease with our situation there. 

You take BPA at an area of need while taking into account positional value..... that’s the way a good GM drafts imo.  You don’t draft for strictly need and that’s what you’re saying they should done.  Which CB did you want in rd 3?

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The board didn't fall our way for corners. I know you mentioned Samuel but I really do not think he is a scheme fit here at all. 

 

On Brown - my guess is yes he was sticking out on their board knowing what they value. 

Fair on Samuel.  He’s mostly played man so his fit in zone is more of a projection.  I don’t see why he couldn’t develop those skills though.  IMO his floor here would be a damn fine slot CB here.  And it’s not like he'd have to development more than Rousseau.  Or that his physical skill set is deficient in a way that would prohibit that development (unlike Rousseau).  Quite the contrary on both counts.   But I’m getting off track.  This season’s 30th pick was not the only place to address CB over the last four seasons.  Other than White it’s been overlooked at the expense of the  DL (and to a lesser degree the LBs).

 

I can’t imagine why Brown would have been sticking out on their board other than just his physical profile.  Him and Rousseau seem like bad analytics picks.  High level RAS/SPARQ guys that haven’t shown that they are good football players yet.

[BarleyNY]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

You take BPA at an area of need while taking into account positional value..... that’s the way a good GM drafts imo.  You don’t draft for strictly need and that’s what you’re saying they should done.  Which CB did you want in rd 3?

I am absolutely not saying that they should draft solely for need.  That’s ridiculous and would be stupid.  I’ve explained my thoughts clearly on the matter and I’m starting to lose respect for you as you continue to try to frame my opinion that way.  I’m just going to leave it there for now. 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I am absolutely not saying that they should draft solely for need.  That’s ridiculous and would be stupid.  I’ve explained my thoughts clearly on the matter and I’m starting to lose respect for you as you continue to try to frame my opinion that way.  I’m just going to leave it there for now. 

That’s fine.....You continue to mention not taking a cornerback.  Imo, that’s our only “need”, so that’s why I bring it up.

 

Which CB did you want in rd 3?  Which cb did you want in rd 2? (which doesn’t really matter because Basham was by far and away their BPA based on what Beane said) You continue to mention that they neglect cb (which I agree, they do.  They did the same thing in Carolina too), but which CBs on the board were worthy of the pick?  There was a huge run on corners and none were left.  The only corner I would’ve been happy with in rd 2 was adebo..... but Basham was there so they had to take him.  There weren’t any corners in rd 3 that were worth taking at that spot imo.  So the only thing they really could’ve done differently at corner, is draft Samuel in rd 1.....but rewinded life is impossible. The way the board fell helped dictate our selections.