What happens in Vegas, well ... may lead to pending shakeup

[Doc]

From the feed, Leatherwood was the guy Gruden and Cable wanted and Mayock picked him. Who is griping?  Davis?

[HOUSE]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

From the feed, Leatherwood was the guy Gruden and Cable wanted and Mayock picked him. Who is griping?  Davis?

Richie Incognito is going nuts again, heads are rolling

 

 

 

.

Edited April 30, 2021 by HOUSE

[RobbRiddick]

So Chucky was not happy about getting wood? 

 

I hope Mayock gets fired, I kind of like listening to him during the draft

[Alphadawg7]

I had Leatherwood mocked to the Titans in the first.  A lot of mocks had Leatherwood in the first.  
 

Raiders draft history under this regime is definitely questionable, but to be so upset about a player who did have first round potential before he steps on a field is utterly stupid.  
 

Wrong Josh crowd should know this well both around here, other fans and a lot of media.  
 

I mean if you’re gonna stick with your staff through the draft, then you need to let the draft play out on the field.  What if Learherwood becomes a pro-bowler, is anyone going to care that they felt he was taken too early?  
 

More importantly, all the “they should have traded down” to get him talk is silly.  Takes two to tango first of all, secondly, I was not the only one who felt he was a target for the Titans 4 picks later given their losses this offseason on the right side of the line.  If he’s your guy, then you need to take him too.  
 

Just like Beane said, he had trade down offers, but they didn’t do it because their target and guy was there at 30. 
 

Again, plenty to dislike about the Gruden and Mayock draft era, but I think the over reaction is a bit absurd and premature about a guy that had plenty of people mocking in the first.  
 

PS:  I thought the Giants pick was much more of a reach anyway, no one had him going in the first.  

Edited April 30, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Seasons1992]

21 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Paranoia strikes deep.  Into your team it will creep.

 

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

So Chucky was not happy about getting wood? 

 

I hope Mayock gets fired, I kind of like listening to him during the draft

I liked listening to him call Notre Dame games

[BuffaloBill]

51 minutes ago, Doc said:

What happens in Vegas...is usually dumb. 

 

 

The same can be said for New Orleans.

[colin]

i don't get it.  did someone go rogue and make the wrong pick?

[Back2Buff]

Mayock isn't humble enough to be a GM.  Dude thought he was the greatest evaluator ever and was smarter than every GM who had jobs while he was on TV.  It was evident by his first pick he made for the Raiders.  He trying to look like a genius instead of just building a team.

[dave mcbride]

47 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I had Leatherwood mocked to the Titans in the first.  A lot of mocks had Leatherwood in the first.  
 

Raiders draft history under this regime is definitely questionable, but to be so upset about a player who did have first round potential before he steps on a field is utterly stupid.  
 

Wrong Josh crowd should know this well both around here, other fans and a lot of media.  
 

I mean if you’re gonna stick with your staff through the draft, then you need to let the draft play out on the field.  What if Learherwood becomes a pro-bowler, is anyone going to care that they felt he was taken too early?  
 

More importantly, all the “they should have traded down” to get him talk is silly.  Takes two to tango first of all, secondly, I was not the only one who felt he was a target for the Titans 4 picks later given their losses this offseason on the right side of the line.  If he’s your guy, then you need to take him too.  
 

Just like Beane said, he had trade down offers, but they didn’t do it because their target and guy was there at 30. 
 

Again, plenty to dislike about the Gruden and Mayock draft era, but I think the over reaction is a bit absurd and premature about a guy that had plenty of people mocking in the first.  
 

PS:  I thought the Giants pick was much more of a reach anyway, no one had him going in the first.  

The thing about the Raiders is that they posted 21 total sacks last year and the defense was TERRIBLE (31st in average points per drive allowed). A number as low as 21 is really difficult to achieve.  And it got worse as time went on: in their final seven games, they gave up 35, 43, 28, 44, 30, 26, and 31 points. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Special K]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Will the shakeup include a new hairstyle?

 

 

is there a richer man with a worse haircut??

 

Maybe Zuckerberg??

Edited April 30, 2021 by Special K

[mjt328]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I had Leatherwood mocked to the Titans in the first.  A lot of mocks had Leatherwood in the first.  
 

Raiders draft history under this regime is definitely questionable, but to be so upset about a player who did have first round potential before he steps on a field is utterly stupid.  
 

Wrong Josh crowd should know this well both around here, other fans and a lot of media.  
 

I mean if you’re gonna stick with your staff through the draft, then you need to let the draft play out on the field.  What if Learherwood becomes a pro-bowler, is anyone going to care that they felt he was taken too early?  
 

More importantly, all the “they should have traded down” to get him talk is silly.  Takes two to tango first of all, secondly, I was not the only one who felt he was a target for the Titans 4 picks later given their losses this offseason on the right side of the line.  If he’s your guy, then you need to take him too.  
 

Just like Beane said, he had trade down offers, but they didn’t do it because their target and guy was there at 30. 
 

Again, plenty to dislike about the Gruden and Mayock draft era, but I think the over reaction is a bit absurd and premature about a guy that had plenty of people mocking in the first.  
 

PS:  I thought the Giants pick was much more of a reach anyway, no one had him going in the first.  

 

It takes roughly 2-3 years for most players to develop.  So you can't really judge a draft choice until that point.

But the NFL Draft is a big event.  Everybody wants to talk about how good each team did.  

The only way you can really judge at this point is by looking at value (where did the consensus rank him), and how well team needs were addressed.

 

Maybe I'm looking different places than you are, but I can't find anywhere where Alex Leatherwood was ranked that high.

I usually keep track of about a dozen sites (NFL.com, ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC, Sports Illustrated, Sporting News, USA Today, Pro Football Focus, Draft Network, Draftek, Tankathon, Pro Football Network, etc.).  Out of that group, only one had Leatherwood with a first round ranking (#27 overall).  Most had him in the middle of the 2nd, in the early 50s.

 

The best GMs in the league don't just find good players.  They also navigate through the mess to find value, which ultimately leads to more/better draft selections.  Brandon Beane gets good value, because he often talks about doing his homework on OTHER teams and making educated guesses who they are targeting.  Even small trade-downs in the 1st Round can easily result in additional 2nd/3rd Round picks.

 

Raiders fans are frustrated because Gruden/Mayock continually pick guys 20-30 slots ahead of where they are expected.  When you look at a roster full of guys like Damon Arnette, Clelin Ferrell and Kolton Miller... you quickly realize that Las Vegas could have gotten the same guys PLUS another few starting caliber players, by just doing a better job of moving around the board.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I had Leatherwood mocked to the Titans in the first.  A lot of mocks had Leatherwood in the first.  
 

Raiders draft history under this regime is definitely questionable, but to be so upset about a player who did have first round potential before he steps on a field is utterly stupid.  
 

Wrong Josh crowd should know this well both around here, other fans and a lot of media.  
 

I mean if you’re gonna stick with your staff through the draft, then you need to let the draft play out on the field.  What if Learherwood becomes a pro-bowler, is anyone going to care that they felt he was taken too early?  
 

More importantly, all the “they should have traded down” to get him talk is silly.  Takes two to tango first of all, secondly, I was not the only one who felt he was a target for the Titans 4 picks later given their losses this offseason on the right side of the line.  If he’s your guy, then you need to take him too.  
 

Just like Beane said, he had trade down offers, but they didn’t do it because their target and guy was there at 30. 
 

Again, plenty to dislike about the Gruden and Mayock draft era, but I think the over reaction is a bit absurd and premature about a guy that had plenty of people mocking in the first.  
 

PS:  I thought the Giants pick was much more of a reach anyway, no one had him going in the first.  

 

We fired Whaley right after the draft.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

It takes roughly 2-3 years for most players to develop.  So you can't really judge a draft choice until that point.

But the NFL Draft is a big event.  Everybody wants to talk about how good each team did.  

The only way you can really judge at this point is by looking at value (where did the consensus rank him), and how well team needs were addressed.

 

Maybe I'm looking different places than you are, but I can't find anywhere where Alex Leatherwood was ranked that high.

I usually keep track of about a dozen sites (NFL.com, ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC, Sports Illustrated, Sporting News, USA Today, Pro Football Focus, Draft Network, Draftek, Tankathon, Pro Football Network, etc.).  Out of that group, only one had Leatherwood with a first round ranking (#27 overall).  Most had him in the middle of the 2nd, in the early 50s.

 

The best GMs in the league don't just find good players.  They also navigate through the mess to find value, which ultimately leads to more/better draft selections.  Brandon Beane gets good value, because he often talks about doing his homework on OTHER teams and making educated guesses who they are targeting.  Even small trade-downs in the 1st Round can easily result in additional 2nd/3rd Round picks.

 

Raiders fans are frustrated because Gruden/Mayock continually pick guys 20-30 slots ahead of where they are expected.  When you look at a roster full of guys like Damon Arnette, Clelin Ferrell and Kolton Miller... you quickly realize that Las Vegas could have gotten the same guys PLUS another few starting caliber players, by just doing a better job of moving around the board.

 

 

I don’t disagree with you on their draft history at all, but I’m just saying that if you’re going to keep them around to draft, then you should let it play out.  
 

And to clarify, I’m not talking about rankings, I’m talking mock drafts which are different than rankings.  And I read several mock drafts that had Leatherwood going in the first.  
 

I personally also would NOT have taken Leatherwood if I was them, in fact I was certain they were going to take DL or JOK because they are still chasing Chiefs and Kelce.  But at the same time, improving the OL with a pocket passer like Carr isn’t exactly a bad move either, assuming Leathwrwood pans out.  
 

Again, I had him mocked to Titans just like 4 picks later and @GunnerBill I know also had him mocked in the first too.  Titans and Leatherwood I felt were a real good fit based on the losses they had on the OL this offseason.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

Raiders drafting philosophy:

 

By drafting 2nd rounders in the 1st round it causes more 1st rounders to slip into the 2nd round. Maybe teams will assume those players have been drafted and we can scoop them up then. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

We fired Whaley right after the draft.

 

 

But McD had more to do with that draft than Whaley.  

[BillsfaninSB]

Don’t they run the 1st round pick by the Owner first as SOP?   Seems like that is a Davis problem if they don’t. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

It takes roughly 2-3 years for most players to develop.  So you can't really judge a draft choice until that point.

But the NFL Draft is a big event.  Everybody wants to talk about how good each team did.  

The only way you can really judge at this point is by looking at value (where did the consensus rank him), and how well team needs were addressed.

 

Maybe I'm looking different places than you are, but I can't find anywhere where Alex Leatherwood was ranked that high.

I usually keep track of about a dozen sites (NFL.com, ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC, Sports Illustrated, Sporting News, USA Today, Pro Football Focus, Draft Network, Draftek, Tankathon, Pro Football Network, etc.).  Out of that group, only one had Leatherwood with a first round ranking (#27 overall).  Most had him in the middle of the 2nd, in the early 50s.

 

The best GMs in the league don't just find good players.  They also navigate through the mess to find value, which ultimately leads to more/better draft selections.  Brandon Beane gets good value, because he often talks about doing his homework on OTHER teams and making educated guesses who they are targeting.  Even small trade-downs in the 1st Round can easily result in additional 2nd/3rd Round picks.

 

Raiders fans are frustrated because Gruden/Mayock continually pick guys 20-30 slots ahead of where they are expected.  When you look at a roster full of guys like Damon Arnette, Clelin Ferrell and Kolton Miller... you quickly realize that Las Vegas could have gotten the same guys PLUS another few starting caliber players, by just doing a better job of moving around the board.

 

 

 

This exactly - plus what is the value - Leatherwood seems more destined to be a guard, but there were other OLine still available at that spot that would have been better fits at higher value positions like RT.  The difference between Leatherwood at guard and the next guard taken will be huge.

 

It is part of the reason the Jets trade was questionable - gave up 2 3rds for a guard, but at least it was a consensus top pick guy.  The Jets pick - I believe led to the Leatherwood pick by LV.  
 

I think LV were sitting there thinking they had AVT all lined up and it was their need and value lining up and then the Jets move up and take him and suddenly in the scramble they take the next guy on their board and reach for it.

 

Somehow - Mayock and Gruden just seem disorganized or uninformed and are very set in their ways and when they decide about a position - they go for it - even if it is a stretch.

 

[Nitro]

I really think most of us could have made a better draft selection.   Leatherwood was a solid mid second round selection.  Three years in a row with first round reaches.  Mayock talked a good game when he was on draft coverage but his GM skills and drafting are suspect.  I bet there are more than a few in the NFL that are chuckling about the disarray in LV.  

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

We fired Whaley right after the draft.

 

 

That was destined.  He had already packed up and was ready to move.  My brother is friends with him so we knew ahead of time. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Simply put, the draft isn't just about evaluating players. You can think a guy is a top 10 player, but if the rest of the league doesn't even think he's a first rounder, you're not getting value by picking him in the top 10. Strategizing is the other part of the job, someone doesn't seem to care about that part in Vegas. You can still get your guy if you believe in him, but don't just pick him in the top 10.