Rodgers Disgruntled with Packers

[Augie]

1 hour ago, RockpileSurvivor said:

Former teammate James Jones relaying some of Rodgers thoughts today on The Herd…

He said the GM is not the issue.

 

 

 

Interesting.

 

It’s not about the GM. And it’s not about the money. If I had to guess, firing the GM is FAR less likely to fix the problem than addressing the money, because, when they say it’s not about the money……. It’s mostly about the money, or at least it’s the most viable fix.

 

In this case, I feel like he wants them to pay a penalty (and twist a little bit) for taking him for granted and ignoring his wishes regarding players, drafting defense high consistently (unless it’s my is replacement) and letting the old QB coach go. I’m sure he’s quietly giddy about the reports of Jordan Love stinking it up!  

 

 

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Edited June 8, 2021 by Augie

[WhoTom]

3 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

Love was described as a "raw" prospect with great physical tools who needed to improve on his accuracy and information processing ability.

 

As far as Love's scouting report goes: I'll grant that scouting reports can sometimes be wrong. Sometimes a player can improve.

 

If Love's supporters want to find examples in support of their argument, they should be looking at QBs who came into the NFL with great physical tools, but with limited accuracy or information processing ability, who went on to have success.

 

Sounds like someone we know...

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Sounds like someone we know...

 

Josh is a unicorn.  Love will be a bust.  I'll eat crow if I'm proven wrong.

[Arm of Harm]

29 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

Sounds like someone we know...

 

For the first two years of Allen's career I was on the fence about him. I thought he might prove to be the answer, and might not be. Year 3 erased all my doubts, and I feel as though he is now playing at a higher level than Patrick Mahomes.

 

Normally I'm opposed to drafting a "raw" quarterback with great physical tools, but without having proven himself an accurate passer or fast processor of information at the college level. Allen, however, was ambiguous. His college highlight video was very impressive. He'd throw a pass deep downfield, through a narrow window, to the exact location it needed to be. Big boy throws that most NFL quarterbacks can't make. But then, at least according to the scouting reports, he'd follow up a big time throw like that by being inaccurate on a routine throw.

 

Also according to at least some of the scouting reports he didn't display outstanding ability to process information quickly while in college. But, what he had instead was a high Wonderlic score. Significantly higher than any of the other first round QBs that year. So, there were some data to suggest he'd be good at processing information quickly (the high Wonderlic score), and other data to suggest he might not be good at that task.

 

Does Jordan Love's highlight reel consist of big time throws like the ones from Allen's highlight reel? Or, is his highlight reel more like E.J. Manuel's? With Manuel's highlight reel there was nothing impressive or special about the throws themselves. Most of the throws I remember were to college open WRs, who then ran it in for a touchdown. Based on the reports of Love I've read, it sounds as though his college highlight reel had more in common with Manuel's than with Allen's. 

 

While I didn't take the time to watch Love's highlight reel, I at least looked up some QBs' Wonderlic scores. Below is what I found:

 

Josh Allen: 37

Baker Mayfield: 25

Lamar Jackson: 13

 

Justin Herbert: 39

Jake Fromm: 35

Jordan Love: 27

Tua Tagovailoa: 19

 

E.J. Manuel: 28

 

Love's Wonderlic is high enough that you can't really call it a question mark. But, it's not high enough to where you can say it's a substitute for having demonstrated fast information processing at the college level. Allen's Wonderlic score is high enough to where you could make that argument.

[BillnutinHouston]

Has Rodgers ever been gruntled?

[Dr.Sack]

I think Allen’s career has many parallels to Rodgers. Year 3 breakout season, top 5 level accuracy, mobility, arm strength, small market team, California born, no D1 offers JUCO transfer. 
 

You just have to appreciate talent when it comes along. Allen should have input on ways to improve the offense. We haven’t seen the full maturation and what is called the “ego” phase from Allen. Rodgers has earned the ability to provide input. Allen should be at that level once he signs the big contract.   
 

I hope Allen’s career continues to parallel and exceed Rodgers.

[WhoTom]

3 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

Based on the reports of Love I've read, it sounds as though his college highlight reel had more in common with Manuel's than with Allen's. 

 

I wasn't suggesting that Love would become another Allen - just that your description of a raw guy who turned out to be great sounded like Josh. I don't follow college football, so I know nothing about Love. In general, though, I agree with you that finding a diamond in the rough is pretty rare. Josh is an anomaly, for sure.

[colin]

19 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

I wouldn't want my QB dictating front office personnel, so I get GB not doing that. 

 

That said, use crisis as an opportunity. Offer Rodgers to Seattle for Wilson straight up and see what happens. GB might seem to be getting the better of that deal due to the age difference, but IMO Rodgers is the better QB and could still easily play 6-7 years, so the age difference isn't as stark. 

 

Wilson played college ball in Wisconsin, so there's a connection there. Wilson wants to be more out East, Rodgers want out West. Both QBs seem to want a change of scenery. 

 

Green Bay looks like a winner getting a younger, Super Bowl winning QB with local ties, who has also played in more Super Bowls than Rodgers.

 

Seattle gets the league MVP with a chip on his shoulder for a good 5 years, maybe 6-7.  Seattle looks like the winner getting the reigning league MVP and avoiding a similar situation with Wilson in the future. 

 

Everyone wins, which is why it won't happen. Instead, pride and ego will make Green Bay dig in and get nothing, the team will win 4-5 games with Love/Bortles, and Lefleur, who probably had no say in any of this, will take the fall. 

 

No matter what, the front office will want to look like they were "right" so zero change the GM gets fired, and they don't have an owner. It'll be the HC not developing Love the right way, and they'll find some other coordinator to come in and really "make it all work."

 

 

 

Honestly, if this just lead to both teams doing what they've done for a little while, which is falling apart in the playoffs in spite of solid QB play, it would make both front offices look clever.  I'd say the best move if it's on the table.

[Arm of Harm]

12 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

I wasn't suggesting that Love would become another Allen - just that your description of a raw guy who turned out to be great sounded like Josh. I don't follow college football, so I know nothing about Love. In general, though, I agree with you that finding a diamond in the rough is pretty rare. Josh is an anomaly, for sure.

 

All that sounds reasonable enough.

 

The point I was making about Allen is that he isn't a standard-issue, "great physical tools but wasn't accurate in college, didn't process information quickly in college" type guy. Had he been a standard-issue example of that, I would have opposed the pick as strongly as I'd opposed the Losman and Manuel picks.

 

With a guy like Allen, based on the information I'd gathered as a casual fan going into the 2017 draft, I personally wouldn't have wanted to bet on him, but neither would I have wanted to bet against him. Our front office made a better decision than I would have, had I only been given some draft guides to work with. That's a huge step up from the playoff drought front offices, which frequently made worse decisions than an intelligent fan equipped with draft guides would have made. Examples of those bad decisions include the Losman and Manuel picks, Whitner at 8th overall, and all first round picks used on RBs during the drought. 

[Draconator]

 

[Doc]

Sounds like the Pack defense was told to take it easy on Love after yesterday's showing...

[ghostwriter]

Thing is, Aaron Rodgers is a top 5 QB and has been for nearly a decade now and he only has 1 SB. Had he played for other teams he could easily have 2-3. I don’t think he is cocky or conceited at all for wanting out of Green Bay. I don’t think they’ve done a great job building around him. He can pretty much make any HC or OC look good and I know he put up big numbers last year but he is going to do that in any scheme regardless. They’ve gone against his wishes many times which is folly. Any player he wanted he should have gotten. Any coach he wanted he should have gotten. I’m hearing he may end up in Denver, but honestly, I think he is going backwards talent wise as far as what he would have to work with, but I do think Elway would get him pretty much everything he wants if he went there. If Elway rolled out the red carpet for him like he did with Manning and kept Rodgers involved, it could work out though. Wouldn’t be my first choice though if I was Rodgers.

[Doc]

Drafting a QB in the 1st and a RB in the 2nd last year, when they had Pro Bowlers at each position, was stupid.  It's going to look even more stupid when both those players prove to be busts.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

Drafting a QB in the 1st and a RB in the 2nd last year, when they had Pro Bowlers at each position, was stupid.  It's going to look even more stupid when both those players prove to be busts.

I don’t think Dillon will be a bust, but I agree with your post 💯…..Dillon was hardly worth the pick considering their rb situation.  I thought they may let Jones go and put that 13M, or w/e he got, to another position group.  Monster contract for one rb.  High draft pick for his backup.  Not the smartest allocation of assets imo.   And then the mvp qbs backup with their best asset.  Just brutal for a team that is so close to super bowl. Jordan Love needs to win a SB before he leaves or they failed.  

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think Dillon will be a bust, but I agree with your post 💯…..Dillon was hardly worth the pick considering their rb situation.  I thought they may let Jones go and put that 13M, or w/e he got, to another position group.  Monster contract for one rb.  High draft pick for his backup.  Not the smartest allocation of assets imo.   And then the mvp qbs backup with their best asset.  Just brutal for a team that is so close to super bowl. Jordan Love needs to win a SB before he leaves or they failed.  

 

And when you draft a QB in the 1st, you're basically saying you expect him to start in the next 2-3 years.  It's a fairly obvious statement to the incumbent QB.

 

If the offer to let bygones be bygones if they fire Gutekunst still stands, I'd do it.  Otherwise a whole bunch of people will find themselves without jobs soon.

[Mr. WEO]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:12 PM, Arm of Harm said:

 

The front office/GM which drafted Rodgers is not the same one which drafted Love. Also, they're two completely different prospects. Rodgers' draft report praised him for having been an accurate passer in college and good at processing visual information quickly. In contrast, Love was described as a "raw" prospect with great physical tools who needed to improve on his accuracy and information processing ability.

 

As far as Love's scouting report goes: I'll grant that scouting reports can sometimes be wrong. Sometimes a player can improve. Sometimes a player who lacks good accuracy or fast information processing ability can find his way into a Greg Roman offense, where you don't need to be a great passer to have success.

 

If Love's supporters want to find examples in support of their argument, they should be looking at QBs who came into the NFL with great physical tools, but with limited accuracy or information processing ability, who went on to have success. Aaron Rodgers is not an example of that type of quarterback, and it's ridiculous his name gets bandied about as a reason to trust the Love pick.

 

When Packers drafted Rodgers (who famously fell so far in the 1st that he became an infamous Green Room sad sack story, as team after team passed on him),  Favre, coming off a playoff season at 10-6 and in desperate need of "weapons", didn't mope and cry or no-show when "they drafted his replacement".  In fact he stayed after the following season when they went  4-12.  And then after they went 8-8.  Until he got them back to 13-3 and the the NFCC game.

 

6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And when you draft a QB in the 1st, you're basically saying you expect him to start in the next 2-3 years.  It's a fairly obvious statement to the incumbent QB.

 

If the offer to let bygones be bygones if they fire Gutekunst still stands, I'd do it.  Otherwise a whole bunch of people will find themselves without jobs soon.

 

If the Packers, barring a couple of huge late game gaffes on the part of the QB and the HC, had simply won beaten the Bucs and made it to the SB, no one would be having this conversation.  That Offense was STACKED in 2020.  Despite the Love pick in 2019, spending another year player together in 2020--that Offense made Rodgers into an MVP for the first time in 6 years.  

 

If Rodgers shows up to play for the Pack this season, and they don't win a SB...the FO should all be fired----for not trading him this offseason.  

 

If he doesn't show up, he will have the distinction of being the only back to back NFCC game playing, current NFL MVP QB to hold out in the history of the game.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/9/2021 at 5:37 PM, Draconator said:

 

 

Just so we know, this is the same guy who reported that Tua had thrown 70 INT at Dolphins minicamp

[PolishPrince]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just so we know, this is the same guy who reported that Tua had thrown 70 INT at Dolphins minicamp

That didnt help... so is this guy credible or no?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

That didnt help... so is this guy credible or no?

 

The actual number was 5, so you do the math

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Packers, barring a couple of huge late game gaffes on the part of the QB and the HC, had simply won beaten the Bucs and made it to the SB, no one would be having this conversation.  That Offense was STACKED in 2020.  Despite the Love pick in 2019, spending another year player together in 2020--that Offense made Rodgers into an MVP for the first time in 6 years.  

 

If Rodgers shows up to play for the Pack this season, and they don't win a SB...the FO should all be fired----for not trading him this offseason.  

 

If he doesn't show up, he will have the distinction of being the only back to back NFCC game playing, current NFL MVP QB to hold out in the history of the game.  

 

Sure playing better in the NFCCG would have made it moot.  But so would have better players.  Again it's why the Bucs felt the need to add AB mid-season, because the already-stacked TB offense needed to be even more stacked.  And I think I recall a player (Tonyan) dropping a perfect TD pass on that FG drive near the end of the game.