Ben Allbright’s annual mock draft has Bills taking Etienne at 30. He’s been right about where Bills are looking several years running.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I was being a bit hyperbolic. Of course he'll need to block sometimes. But it should be few enough that we arent that worried about it. Plus, blocking IS something that can be taught.

 

 

 

Blocking for a RB is much like playing defense in basketball. There is some technique, but a lot of it is  just deciding that you are going to go all in and give the effort. 

 

Maybe we could have Thurman give him some lessons. What a beautiful thing it was to see him pick up those guys shooting the gaps, keeping Jimbo safe and off his back.  

[OldTimer1960]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Totally fair. Based on Allbright apparently having a source within the Bills (which he has subtly implied), I think what this says is that if ETN is on the board at 30, he’s their guy. With 29 picks happening before the Bills are up, it only takes one team to ruin the Bills’ plan and thus, to make Allbright’s pick wrong.

 

I think it’s reasonable to conclude that ETN might be their preferred player based on who they think will be available. Allbright also previously stated that the Bills will be flexible if a player of high value at a premium position slips. If the board falls as many expect, it might be time to buy a #9 Bills jersey.
 

 

I just don’t think that Etienne is “special”.  Good RB prospect with some pass catching skills and has some speed, but is a high-mileage draftee.  I think he is fast, but not “extremely fast”.  40 time from these pro days are suspect - hand timed and variable surfaces.  I would guess you should add about .1 seconds to all of these reported time to compare with what comes out of the Indy combine each year.

 

If you add .1 to Etienne’s pro day time it is about 4.5.  If he ran 4.5 at Indy in a normal year, we are not talking about a top round prospect and that is how I see him.

[Boxcar]

5 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

But again, you are suggesting taking a football player who is not as good as the player they are taking.  It gets talked about all the time - in the first round take the best player available.  Speed isn't the only thing - if it was Brieda wouldn't be on his third team in 3 years and that prospect you mentioned wouldn't be a 7th round talent.  There are several edge rushers taken before the Bills pick in this mock, so you are taking the 5th or 6th best edge rusher in the first round.  That is a terrible use of assets.  I agree that the Bills need an edge rusher, but not an edge rusher at all costs in the first round just to take an edge rusher

The Bills don't have any critical needs, either. If any team should be taking BPA over immediate needs, it's this one.

 

I think CB and DE are important too, but if Beane is targeting Etienne, Harris or Williams, I have to think it means he's confident in finding first round talent for those positions later in the draft. The opt outs have caused a lot of chaos, and there are guys who were mocked in the first round like 10 months ago being mocked in the 3rd, 4th and 5th now.

[In Summary]

After spending 3rd round picks on RB's in consecutive years, drafting Etienne at 30 suggests that the Bills now believe differently on what their RB needs to be.  Hard to believe this is the same group that loved the Gore/DeMarco combination so much.

[Fan in Chicago]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

 

I’m posting this only because Allbright seems to have legit league sources, particularly one with the Bills, and he’s way more accurate/trustworthy than most. 

 

Take from it what you will.

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-round-albright/

 

Can you provide more information about his past mocks re:Bills. Not trying to be snarky. If he has said in 2018 that the Bills are looking for a QB, big whoppydee doo.  But if he made less predictable projections and then they came true, I will give him more credence . 

But it looks like several mocks have us taking Etienne and I am in Bill in NYC mode and pre-emptively moping. I would absolutely dislike the pick due it being a RB and with our Rd 1 pick. 

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I just don’t think that Etienne is “special”.  Good RB prospect with some pass catching skills and has some speed, but is a high-mileage draftee.  I think he is fast, but not “extremely fast”.  40 time from these pro days are suspect - hand timed and variable surfaces.  I would guess you should add about .1 seconds to all of these reported time to compare with what comes out of the Indy combine each year.

 

If you add .1 to Etienne’s pro day time it is about 4.5.  If he ran 4.5 at Indy in a normal year, we are not talking about a top round prospect and that is how I see him.

Correct.  He’s basically Kareem Hunt with a lot of wear and tear.  Nice to have but not at the cost of a first round pick.

[gotme365]

I’m positive this was posted earlier this week but check out this article about drafting 1st round RB’s

https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/article/offseason-research/teams-are-never-first-round-rb-away

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Jerry Butler was real good.

That defensive player might not be as good at his position as Etienne is at his.  In that case I’d rather have Etienne.  That said, whatever they do I’ll be good with it.  They’re in good shape.

That's a great point. McB aren't handcuffed or obligated to go defense. They are well aware they have a huge need at DE and to a slightly lesser extent RB & CB. So if they're sitting at 28-29 and a couple of their targets are still there they'll wait till 30 and pounce. They have options.

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Can you provide more information about his past mocks re:Bills. Not trying to be snarky. If he has said in 2018 that the Bills are looking for a QB, big whoppydee doo.  But if he made less predictable projections and then they came true, I will give him more credence . 

But it looks like several mocks have us taking Etienne and I am in Bill in NYC mode and pre-emptively moping. I would absolutely dislike the pick due it being a RB and with our Rd 1 pick. 

 

His claim is that he was on Buffalo and Allen.  The issue is if you go beyond - he didn’t have Edmunds.  In a great DL draft - he had us with DL - just not the right pick - I believe he had us with Wilkins not Oliver.  Then in the best WR draft in history - he had us with a WR - he missed out on us trading for Diggs a month before the draft.  Our actual 1st pick in AJ - he had mocked to NE in round 1.

 

So in the last 5 picks - he got Allen - big points and nothing else of note. Not exactly a high percentage, but if you read his tweets - he went after a guy and claimed he has been right 5 straight picks.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, In Summary said:

After spending 3rd round picks on RB's in consecutive years, drafting Etienne at 30 suggests that the Bills now believe differently on what their RB needs to be.  Hard to believe this is the same group that loved the Gore/DeMarco combination so much.

Nobody loved the Gore/DiMarco combo. 

[Buffalo03]

If Etienne or Harris are the best players available at that point, why not?

[Reed83HOF]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

This is one thing I've thought about quite a bit since the "ETN to the Bills" rumor started:

The Bills lined up in 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR) empty formations A TON in 2021. Because the HB split out wide was Moss or Singletary, though, they were basically a non-factor in most pass plays that followed. Imagine being able to come out in 11 and 10 personnel empty sets, as they seem to love to do, but actually having that HB split out wide be a legitimate threat, a legitimately useful part of the play. They could essentially come out in 10 or 11 personnel on every play and then, based on the defensive personnel, either line up in more of a pro set to attack a light defense or an empty set to attack a base defense.

TL;DR: a player like Etienne could greatly increase the potency of the Bills passing game in addition to its run game. Specifically, it can increase the lethality of the Bills' much-loved empty sets.

^10000%

 

Too many people just see RB and say we don't need to run more (maybe scars from years past with no QB), but he is another basically WR who plays RB and is a darn good runner as well. There is taking taking the RB off the field to go 5 wide or they could show 5 wide and he motions back to RB. The scheme versatility as well as his play-making ability open the offense up more than any other offensive position...

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Pass rush isn't the only reason we lost to KC. Tampa Bay obviously did have an excellent pass rush, but not enough credit is given to their LBs for keeping Kelce in check. In our game Mahomes was getting rid of the ball before any pass rush would have had a chance of getting to him, mostly because Edmunds was hopelessly lost in coverage.

 

You know the best way to beat the Chiefs? Build up a lead early and run out the clock. We can't score 24 points and expect to beat them. Adding to the offense will realistically give us a better chance against them than any possible addition on defense.

How would the pass rush work out with a fully healthy KC OL and Mahomes?

 

We didn't have enough on offense to knock them out of mugging our WRs, we have zero counter punch to force them to play our offense differently.

 

Also, the SB refs actually called flags on KC's secondary...

[OldTimer1960]

5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

^10000%

 

Too many people just see RB and say we don't need to run more (maybe scars from years past with no QB), but he is another basically WR who plays RB and is a darn good runner as well. There is taking taking the RB off the field to go 5 wide or they could show 5 wide and he motions back to RB. The scheme versatility as well as his play-making ability open the offense up more than any other offensive position...

How would the pass rush work out with a fully healthy KC OL and Mahomes?

 

We didn't have enough on offense to knock them out of mugging our WRs, we have zero counter punch to force them to play our offense differently.

 

Also, the SB refs actually called flags on KC's secondary...

Is Etienne really that big a receiving threat or did he take advantage of spread out defenses trying to handle all of Clemson’s talent and benefit from a a very good OL.  Behind last year’s Bills’ OL he gets met in the backfield frequently just like Singletary and Moss did - his speed won’t help there.  In addition, his 4.4 speed from his pro day is likely equivalent to 4.5 at Indy combine in a normal year.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, In Summary said:

After spending 3rd round picks on RB's in consecutive years, drafting Etienne at 30 suggests that the Bills now believe differently on what their RB needs to be.  Hard to believe this is the same group that loved the Gore/DeMarco combination so much.

Their offense has evolved and needs to continue to evolve, with that their lens on what each player needs to be evolves. They love to run crossing routes concepts at different levels. The Threat of etienne off of play action is a tangible wrinkle for him to be a Screen or dump off option. Defenses are going to need to play with 2 safeties back with the WRs they have and the Bills need to counter that. Whether or not they think they have that In the current RBs is the question. 

43 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

If Etienne or Harris are the best players available at that point, why not?

I’m a bit invested in this happening at this point and if they do not get one of these two players I will a level of disappointment on par with Dobbins going one pick after us to the Ravens last year. My stomach dropped. Nothing against epenesa. But they haven’t picked an offensive player with the first pick, besides Allen, in a really long time. We need young elite offensive talent. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Blank Stare]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

 

Interesting take. I look at this a little differently. Sure they’ll be surprises in the draft. To some degree there usually is, but I think due to the unusual scouting season with Covid, they are more likely to make “safer”/higher floor picks. This is why I think Etienne is more likely to be in play for us or others prior to our pick. But, it will be interesting for sure. Always is. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Wait ‘til you see Ford and Mongo trying to get themselves downfield to block for ETN on a screener…

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

His claim is that he was on Buffalo and Allen.  The issue is if you go beyond - he didn’t have Edmunds.  In a great DL draft - he had us with DL - just not the right pick - I believe he had us with Wilkins not Oliver.  Then in the best WR draft in history - he had us with a WR - he missed out on us trading for Diggs a month before the draft.  Our actual 1st pick in AJ - he had mocked to NE in round 1.

 

So in the last 5 picks - he got Allen - big points and nothing else of note. Not exactly a high percentage, but if you read his tweets - he went after a guy and claimed he has been right 5 straight picks.

He WAS on Buffalo liking Allen, months before anyone else.

He had us with Wilkins because he had Oliver getting drafted before we picked in his mock, but he always said IDL. Last year, he said the Bills were doing the most work on 1st round WRs. Then they traded for Diggs. They probably WERE doing a ton of work on 1st round receivers, and said work let them to conclude that trading for Diggs would be the better option. Doesn't mean Allbright was wrong about them scouting WRs heavily before making the trade.

Again, I'm not saying he's Jimmy the Greek, but I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that a national NFL beat reporter might have some NFL connections that let him know where teams might be leaning in the draft. It's not that outrageous. 

11 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Is Etienne really that big a receiving threat or did he take advantage of spread out defenses trying to handle all of Clemson’s talent

Bingo. That's it right there. Etienne DID take advantage of the defenses being spread out to  handle all of Clemson's offensive talent.

If Beane drafts him, it's because he thinks opposing defenses will be spread out to stop all of Buffalo's talent, too, and he can feast on the open space underneath in the same way that he did at Clemson.

Beane drafting Etienne, to me, would mean he foresees defenses just absolutely selling out to stop Allen and the pass next year, and he wants to make sure that his offense can take advantage of that and forces defenses to be more honest. It would mean he doesn't trust Moss and Singletary to keep defenses honest or to make them pay when they sell out to stop the pass.

[Reed83HOF]

36 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Is Etienne really that big a receiving threat or did he take advantage of spread out defenses trying to handle all of Clemson’s talent and benefit from a a very good OL.  Behind last year’s Bills’ OL he gets met in the backfield frequently just like Singletary and Moss did - his speed won’t help there.  In addition, his 4.4 speed from his pro day is likely equivalent to 4.5 at Indy combine in a normal year.

He is a better RB that the guys we have now. I am a fan of RAS and he can get going in a hurry, we are talking possibly the fastest acceleration in this entire class.

 

He is patient when he runs and waits for his blocks to set up (Our RBs were not good at that this last season)coupled with his ability to hit top speed almost instantaneously, helps him hit the holes and blast through them. IIRC, I read somewhere as a high school SR he ran a 4.43. While I do love a good 40 time, I'm not looking at him winning in track meet as an RB (I want both acceleration and top end speed in a WR). His ability to read blocks, be patient and fly through the hole, while being tough to bring down below the waste is what I want. I also want a RB who is great in the screen game and can cause the underneath LBs nightmares, both of which he is excellent with.
 

 

Also he has worked hard to improve his game from High School to where he is today:

 

“Those are two areas (pass catching and pass protection) that he really had to work on after his freshman year,” said USF coach Jeff Scott, Clemson’s co-offensive coordinator for Etienne’s first three seasons with the Tigers. “And he really bought into it and put in the work and was very intentional in that improvement in both those areas.”

 

“Coming here in high school from a (veer offense), I probably had 16 targets my whole career in high school,” said Etienne, whose hometown of Jennings (population 11,400) is nestled in the rural elbow of Louisiana.

 

“I have to give a lot of credit to (Clemson receiver and classmate) Amari Rodgers. He really challenged me to get on the jugs after every practice for 30-45 minutes. And we would practice catching tennis balls, too, every day after practice. During the pandemic, I got with (quarterback) Trevor Lawrence out here and caught a lot of balls.”

 

He also evolved into a serviceable blocker, another skill he simply didn’t require while running for roughly 4,500 yards his final two years at Jennings. Today, NFL.com draft analyst Lance Zierlein’s report on Etienne includes this line: Loves to clean up A-gap blitzers with booming angle block.

 

“Obviously protecting Tom Brady is a pretty big draw, but he had probably the next-toughest thing in college, protecting Trevor Lawrence,” Scott said. “So it’s not the first time that he’s done something like that.

 

“He has really good football instincts and football IQ, so I think that he’s been very well trained at Clemson with the cross-reads and all the different things that the backs have to do in pass protection.”

 

For the CEH & Swift guys out there

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Reed83HOF

[Reed83HOF]

For those wondering Zack Moss & Singeltary:
 

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

10 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

He is a better RB that the guys we have now. I am a fan of RAS and he can get going in a hurry, we are talking possibly the fastest acceleration in this entire class.

 

He is patient when he runs and waits for his blocks to set up (Our RBs were not good at that this last season)coupled with his ability to hit top speed almost instantaneously, helps him hit the holes and blast through them. IIRC, I read somewhere as a high school SR he ran a 4.43. While I do love a good 40 time, I'm not looking at him winning in track meet as an RB (I want both acceleration and top end speed in a WR). His ability to read blocks, be patient and fly through the hole, while being tough to bring down below the waste is what I want. I also want a RB who is great in the screen game and can cause the underneath LBs nightmares, both of which he is excellent with.
 

 

Also he has worked hard to improve his game from High School to where he is today:

 

“Those are two areas (pass catching and pass protection) that he really had to work on after his freshman year,” said USF coach Jeff Scott, Clemson’s co-offensive coordinator for Etienne’s first three seasons with the Tigers. “And he really bought into it and put in the work and was very intentional in that improvement in both those areas.”

 

“Coming here in high school from a (veer offense), I probably had 16 targets my whole career in high school,” said Etienne, whose hometown of Jennings (population 11,400) is nestled in the rural elbow of Louisiana.

 

“I have to give a lot of credit to (Clemson receiver and classmate) Amari Rodgers. He really challenged me to get on the jugs after every practice for 30-45 minutes. And we would practice catching tennis balls, too, every day after practice. During the pandemic, I got with (quarterback) Trevor Lawrence out here and caught a lot of balls.”

 

He also evolved into a serviceable blocker, another skill he simply didn’t require while running for roughly 4,500 yards his final two years at Jennings. Today, NFL.com draft analyst Lance Zierlein’s report on Etienne includes this line: Loves to clean up A-gap blitzers with booming angle block.

 

“Obviously protecting Tom Brady is a pretty big draw, but he had probably the next-toughest thing in college, protecting Trevor Lawrence,” Scott said. “So it’s not the first time that he’s done something like that.

 

“He has really good football instincts and football IQ, so I think that he’s been very well trained at Clemson with the cross-reads and all the different things that the backs have to do in pass protection.”

 

For the CEH & Swift guys out there

 

 

My main worry is that he is likely only a short-term producer before he breaks down and I would hope to find someone at a more important position who can be here for longer than that.