I am athlete - Diggs, Landry, Brandon Marshall

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Buftex said:

When Landry first went to the Browns, I made a similar comment on an NFL Facebook thread...his mother took great offense to my comment. It got kinda ugly!  

 

Well, the dirty hit that ruined Aaron Williams career was ugly so

[Buffalo Junction]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I never said that most corners excel at both lol 

 

In fact, corners have different varying degrees of success based on their technique they play

 

And it's not as simple as just Man versus zone

 

For instance Jalen Ramsey has great success as a press bump n run  corner.. but when he plays off man outside technique, he's actually very susceptible to getting beat in man coverage 

 

He isn't a man savant. That would go to Stephon Gilmore who excels in every single leverage and technique in man coverage 

 

Tre is solidly above average in his man techniques, while playing at nearly elite levels in most of his zone techniques.. especially cover three and four outside shade

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to master every coverage technique. There’s maybe one corner a decade who can come close to pulling that off, and it usually takes them half a career to do so. Then… they have to stay healthy and play in different schemes. Gilmore’s the closest right now. Charles Woodson when he was in GB was likely the best recent example. Both of those guys had serious issues with some of the zone concepts employed by Belichick and Capers when they transitioned, but they had the mental attitude and drive to home their craft. We’ll see how Tre develops, but he’ll never be as physically gifted as some of the guys who specialize and excel in press man.  

[Freddie's Dead]

12 hours ago, Billschinatown said:

***** Landry.  Don't forget.

 

 

 

As dirty as it gets.  This hit STILL pisses me off.  ***** Jarvis Landry and the horse he rode in on.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Tre White kind of gets the Richard Sherman treatment. Sherman never follows WR's. He sticks to one side. He plays primarily zone. Similar situation as Tre White. Tre doesn't follow #1 WR's often. He has, but not like Ramsey. 

 

Sherman is a great player but rarely gets mentioned by WR's as one of the best they face. 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[1ManRaid]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I never said that most corners excel at both lol 

 

In fact, corners have different varying degrees of success based on their technique they play

 

And it's not as simple as just Man versus zone

 

For instance Jalen Ramsey has great success as a press bump n run  corner.. but when he plays off man outside technique, he's actually very susceptible to getting beat in man coverage 

 

He isn't a man savant. That would go to Stephon Gilmore who excels in every single leverage and technique in man coverage 

 

Tre is solidly above average in his man techniques, while playing at nearly elite levels in most of his zone techniques.. especially cover three and four outside shade

 

I think Gilmore is great, but gets too much credit.  His technique leans too heavily on getting away with illegal downfield contact every other play.  He can be vulnerable to smart route runners and playcalls that see it coming.

 

12 hours ago, Buftex said:

It got really out of hand....other Bills fans didn't help! : 

 

I did end up messaging her to apologize, but she never responded.

 

She should be the one apologizing to us.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

I think Gilmore is great, but gets too much credit.  His technique leans too heavily on getting away with illegal downfield contact every other play.  He can be vulnerable to smart route runners and playcalls that see it coming.

 

Agree 100% and on NE he seemed to always get away with it. Still, I readily admit that Gilmore was a good player for the Bills, especially when he felt like making a tackle.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Agree 100% and on NE he seemed to always get away with it. Still, I readily admit that Gilmore was a good player for the Bills, especially when he felt like making a tackle.

 

 

Gilmore is great and was damn good at the end with the Bills and should have been tagged by McD............but for most of his time with the Bills he had a tendency to not finish plays.   He would blanket a receiver for a couple seconds and then assume the play was over and check out.   So occasionally he would give up a surprise big play out of nowhere.    I think he had a stretch once where the last 3 TD passes he'd given up were all to rookie WR's which really illustrated his tendency to dial it down when he didn't feel threatened.   His focus wasn't elite and part of that was probably the losing culture in Buffalo.   I don't think Gilmore is an optimist either which is why a proven winner was a great fit for him personally.   He tightened up his game in NE but I know BB wasn't as pleased last season.   Without Brady and the promise of contention he probably needs another change of scenery.  

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Gilmore is great and was damn good at the end with the Bills and should have been tagged by McD............but for most of his time with the Bills he had a tendency to not finish plays.   He would blanket a receiver for a couple seconds and then assume the play was over and check out.   So occasionally he would give up a surprise big play out of nowhere.    I think he had a stretch once where the last 3 TD passes he'd given up were all to rookie WR's which really illustrated his tendency to dial it down when he didn't feel threatened.   His focus wasn't elite and part of that was probably the losing culture in Buffalo.   I don't think Gilmore is an optimist either which is why a proven winner was a great fit for him personally.   He tightened up his game in NE but I know BB wasn't as pleased last season.   Without Brady and the promise of contention he probably needs another change of scenery.  

I know that he is a good player but I still contend that he was a dumb draft selection. 2012 was a pretty good draft. Looking back, the Bills could have traded down and picked up some really good players. Players who would have won us more games than Gilmore.

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I know that he is a good player but I still contend that he was a dumb draft selection. 2012 was a pretty good draft. Looking back, the Bills could have traded down and picked up some really good players. Players who would have won us more games than Gilmore.

Hard to say that picking an All Pro corner is a bad selection at any point in the draft unless there was a franchise QB passed on.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I know that he is a good player but I still contend that he was a dumb draft selection. 2012 was a pretty good draft. Looking back, the Bills could have traded down and picked up some really good players. Players who would have won us more games than Gilmore.

 

 

What Gilmore is not is a character guy.   And that is really the big difference between the Gilmore pick and the White pick.    Gilmore is more talented but he isn't a good fit for a messed up room.    The Bills had a culture problem and they kept drafting guys that needed direction,  non-leaders or bad leaders,  onto a rudderless ship and wondering why it wasn't working.   It reached critical mass with drafting Sammy Watkins and not having ANY veteran of note in the room to mentor him.

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Hard to say that picking an All Pro corner is a bad selection at any point in the draft unless there was a franchise QB passed on.

The Bills could have drafted multiple good players including a quarterback. Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins were there to be had. Instead they opted yet again for a top 10 DB. Drafting Gilmore wasn't quite as stupid as the Whitner and McKelvin picks but again, how many games did Gilmore win for us?

I am thinking not so many.

 

Jmo.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The Bills could have drafted multiple good players including a quarterback. Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins were there to be had. Instead they opted yet again for a top 10 DB. Drafting Gilmore wasn't quite as stupid as the Whitner and McKelvin picks but again, how many games did Gilmore win for us?

I am thinking not so many.

 

Jmo.

 

 

The rules changes reducing violence in the passing game in 2010 really changed the value of CB's immensely.    Prior to that the Bills had spent about half of their all time #1 picks on RB's and DB's in a league where winning was all about QB and line play.    You and I both hated the constant DB picks.........they really crippled the franchise.   But after 2010 the CB's became more important and around then the quality of players playing the position increased as well.   Now a top CB is incredibly valuable.   By some metrics,  as @dave mcbride has pointed out,  pass coverage has become more important than pass rush.   The Bills made a good pick in Gilmore but it was probably done using outdated reasoning and they just got lucky.    But of course the better pick would have been the QB Wilson.   If you think a QB is going to be your QB1 there is NO REASON not to take him in round 1.    If Buddy actually believed in Wilson like he said he did then he was an idiot for passing in either of the rounds.   But we kinda' know that now. 

[Bill from NYC]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What Gilmore is not is a character guy.   And that is really the big difference between the Gilmore pick and the White pick.    Gilmore is more talented but he isn't a good fit for a messed up room.    The Bills had a culture problem and they kept drafting guys that needed direction,  non-leaders or bad leaders,  onto a rudderless ship and wondering why it wasn't working.   It reached critical mass with drafting Sammy Watkins and not having ANY veteran of note in the room to mentor him.

Actually, White was one of your best calls on this board when you said that he was the best corner in the draft, but I remember better ones LOL.

 

I am not sure if you will ever be able to top the Robert Royal observation. We couldn't stop laughing at the game when we saw what was happening. Or, how about when you told me that Jairus Byrd  wasn't that good and that most of his interceptions were flukes that he lucked into? I remember thinking, "how can this be possible?" Next thing I knew he sucked and was gone. 😄👍

Edited April 28, 2021 by Bill from NYC