McShay- Bills trying to move up above 23 for Etienne

[SCBills]

34 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Remind me again how many Playoff games the Panthers have won with McCaffery?

 

Remind me again how many Super Bowls the Saints have won riding Kamara (even with an All-Time QB)?

3-4 in the Playoffs since Kamara joined in 2017. 

 

My point isn't that they aren't individually great. My point is they dumb down your offense because you're constantly checking down to them. Against the Panthers, you know its going to be McCaffery on 15 rushes and another 10 dumpoffs. Your offense becomes easy to predict. You become so reliant on the easy dump off. 

 

Go ahead and draft Etienne. He should be better than Moss, Singletary and Breida. But he should only get the same number of touches that they got combined in a game, because if he becomes a focal point in your offense, you won't win more games. 

 

He wouldn't become the focal point though..  Does anyone really think, if we draft Etienne, he's all of a sudden getting 18-20 carries per and 8-10 targets in the passing game?

 

Maybe, against certain teams, deploying a certain scheme... and that's why he makes sense.  

 

Also, the more likely scenario, is someone sells out against Josh/WR pass game and Etienne busts a big run or catches an underneath swing pass for 40 yards and teams play more honest, allowing Josh and the WR's more space to operate. 

 

We don't have anything at the Tight End spot to scare teams.   We have Diggs and a strong trio of #2 WR's, but if you sell out against the pass, Josh doesn't have Kelce to lock onto for big plays.  We can't get him a Kelce because that doesn't exist and Kyle Pitts is out of our reach.  What's the next best option?... In my opinion, it's a weapon at RB.  Notice I didn't say RB, because drafting a RB in the 1st Round is stupid.  Etienne is not just a RB.  He can get the tough yards, has home run ability and is a game changing threat in the passing game.  

 

He's as close as it gets to providing Josh with a change-up when teams sell out against the fast ball.  

 

I won't be mad if we go Defense, WR or OL instead, but Etienne makes a ton of sense for us.  

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by SCBills

[Buff76ers]

I don't believe any deal would be made right now cause the board may fall exactly how they want it.  Trust Beane. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

He wouldn't become the focal point though..  Does anyone really think, if we draft Etienne, he's all of a sudden getting 18-20 carries per and 8-10 targets in the passing game?

 

Maybe, against certain teams, deploying a certain scheme... and that's why he makes sense.  

 

Etienne is not just a RB.  He can get the tough yards, has home run ability and is a game changing threat in the passing game.  

 

 

I thought they were discussing this on WGR the other day, that were only 30-40 some 40-yard runs last year?

 

And Derrick Henry led the league. 

 

So we can expect a 2-3 40-yard swing passes from Etienne? 

 

As long what's bolded is true, then yes, Etienne makes sense. He gets 15-touches a game and replaces Moss and Singletary. Theoretically that makes us better. But either way, if he is CJ Spiller the first two years (Bills had no plan and gave him 3-6 touches per game and blamed pass blocking) or the Bills ride him like Kamara and McCaffery, then I think our production as an offense will decrease. 

 

The best argument for Etienne is the missed screen against Kansas City that Singletary dropped. If that's Etienne there and he catches it, that's a 30-yard completion. 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[MJS]

47 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

 

I am the only person on this entire message board who had Josh Allen as my #1 overall player on the 2018 Big Board before the draft. 

 

I am arguing with a bunch of posters on here who wanted Josh Rosen instead of Josh Allen in 2018.

 

What's hilarious is that I actually know what I'm talking about...most people on here do not. If this message board was in charge of the Bills, Josh Rosen would have been the selection in 2018.

 

I am 3 years ahead of the curve on Josh Allen. I was on the Josh Allen bandwagon before 1 poster on here ever was.

 

Can I get your autograph?

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

I thought they were discussing this on WGR the other day, that were only 30-40 some 40-yard runs last year?

 

And Derrick Henry led the league. 

 

So we can expect a 2-3 40-yard swing passes from Etienne? 

 

As long what's bolded is true, then yes, Etienne makes sense. He gets 15-touches a game and replaces Moss and Singletary. Theoretically that makes us better. But either way, if he is CJ Spiller the first two years or the Bills ride him like Kamara and McCaffery, then I think our production as an offense will decrease. 

 

The best argument for Etienne is the missed screen against Kansas City that Singletary dropped. If that's Etienne there and he catches it, that's a 30-yard completion. 

 

 

If we fix our run blocking, and if we don't take any OL high along with re-signing our own guys, I'm led to believe that Beane/McD believe that can happen - any team that play light boxes against Etienne would be risking chunk yardage... maybe not 40 yard gains, but the runs Devin gets us 10-15, Etienne is getting 20-25.  A pass to Devin in open space can hit for 15-20 yards, given his ability to make guys miss, but a pass to Etienne in open space means potential fireworks.  

 

That, to me, is enough to justify taking Etienne.  Both for what he can do, and for what he prevents the defense from doing. 

[TheFunPolice]

The Bills could very well be sitting in a spot where a handful of really compelling players are there at 30. 

 

It could also make a trade easier. If the Bills want to get up to 21 or 22, and there are a ton of good players that slid due to a run on QBs early, another team might be willing to drop down a handful of spots because of that, especially if the Bills want a RB and they don't. 

 

Should be fun to watch!

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

I mostly agree, but one thing I think about is when you compare your honest ratings of ETN or Harris to the RBs in last year's draft, where do this year's RB's fit with... let's say 2020's top five RBs taken. For reference, here's the top five RBs from 2020, and where they were picked:

 

32 - Clyde Edwards-Helaire

35 - D'Andre Swift

41 - Jonathan Taylor

52 - Cam Akers

55 - J.K. Dobbins

 

Now, obviously, everyone will have their own takes on grading, but where do you see ETN and Harris fitting among those RBs?

 

Personally, I would put ETN right around Akers and Dobbins, in terms of talent and value. I'd definitely have Harris a notch or two lower (maybe in the mid-60's). You may rank him differently, but would you have ETN ranked ahead of Swift? CEH? That would be hard for me to justify, but again, ranking players is tough, and everyone's going to have a different opinion.

 

I just wouldn't have ETN up there with CEH, Swift, or even Taylor (I loved Taylor, last year; I would have given our 2nd for him, but I get that Beane saw Epenesa's value as being higher, and he probably stuck out like a sore thumb on the Bills' board, so I get it), so it's hard for me to justify trading up for ETN, and I wouldn't be the happiest if he were our pick at 30. I just see better value at CB or DE.

 

I know the counter-argument: last year's draft was stacked at RB (and probably a more stacked draft, in general), so RBs were probably pushed down the board. I get that point, and it is valid, but it still doesn't make me feel good taking an RB just because they weren't pushed down the board in a strong draft. I kind of liken it to the 2013 E.J. Manuel pick. We dropped back (good thing! Gained draft capital, and still got a QB), but it was to draft a QB in what has become--historically--the worst QB draft in the past two decades, or so. It's that kind of a feeling, for me, so I just don't like it. 

I don't disagree with any of this.  You did a great job laying your thoughts out.

 

The Warren Sharp article that was out last week or so about 1st rd RBs resonated a lot with me and the value is certainly hard to justify.

 

To be upfront, I really want to address Edge and that looks to be boom or bust at 30, which is fine for where this pick is in such a light draft. I was listening to Howard and Jeremy on the way to work this am, and Jeremy brought up an interesting stat, Mahomes sack rate is 3.6%. Teams get rid of the ball so fast, are we now overvaluing edge in relation to what is traditionally was? It makes me feel like Oweh is who we should be targeting, elite athleticism and if the qb escapes he has the right traits to stop on a dime and circle back around to him to keep the pressure up.

 

I'm not sure I love the CB value at 30 and I do feel like we need that other offensive weapon, another WR will only take a Diggs, Sanders, Beasley and Davis either off the field or takes a rb out for a 5 wide set. TE isn't an option at 30 and that leaves an RB who is a threat to run and and threat to catch. At this spot you at least have the pick of the litter. I know Sanders is only a 1 year deal, so it makes a little sense from a long term perspective. OL is also nice spot to pick from...

[Motorin']

16 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

I thought they were discussing this on WGR the other day, that were only 30-40 some 40-yard runs last year?

 

And Derrick Henry led the league. 

 

So we can expect a 2-3 40-yard swing passes from Etienne? 

 

As long what's bolded is true, then yes, Etienne makes sense. He gets 15-touches a game and replaces Moss and Singletary. Theoretically that makes us better. But either way, if he is CJ Spiller the first two years (Bills had no plan and gave him 3-6 touches per game and blamed pass blocking) or the Bills ride him like Kamara and McCaffery, then I think our production as an offense will decrease. 

 

The best argument for Etienne is the missed screen against Kansas City that Singletary dropped. If that's Etienne there and he catches it, that's a 30-yard completion. 

 

 

In 12 games last year ETN had 48 receptions and 588 yards, over 16 games that extrapolates to 64 receptions and nearly 800 yards. He's a threat catching passes out of the backfield...

 

I get that we are a downfield passing team. But KC figured out how to hem us in, and they were able to do so by ignoring the flats. You can not ignore ETN, he will kill you. You have to defend him, which then helps to open the downfield passing lanes. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Motorin'

[SDS]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

 

If you wanna know why I speak a certain way on this topic...just look at the very last quote I just responded to. Pure lunacy. "Having a great RB weapon is actually a. Bad thing"

 

My condescending and insulting tone is JUSTIFIED. When you make an insulting point (like the one above), you deserve to be insulted for your stupidity.

different message boards have lots of different community personalities. Some cultures are more aggressive and some are more friendly. While we do get into some heated arguments here, we tend to be more on the friendlier side. A lot of long time, good people here.

 

we’re gonna need you to ease up on the stupidity thing. At the very least, establishing yourself is probably a good idea so that we know who we are talking to.

 

Thanks. 

[TheFunPolice]

I know close to nothing about college football, except that I love any DT that weighs 340+ pounds, but the more I hear about Etienne the more I like the idea. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

I mostly agree, but one thing I think about is when you compare your honest ratings of ETN or Harris to the RBs in last year's draft, where do this year's RB's fit with... let's say 2020's top five RBs taken. For reference, here's the top five RBs from 2020, and where they were picked:

 

32 - Clyde Edwards-Helaire

35 - D'Andre Swift

41 - Jonathan Taylor

52 - Cam Akers

55 - J.K. Dobbins

 

Now, obviously, everyone will have their own takes on grading, but where do you see ETN and Harris fitting among those RBs?

 

Personally, I would put ETN right around Akers and Dobbins, in terms of talent and value. I'd definitely have Harris a notch or two lower (maybe in the mid-60's). You may rank him differently, but would you have ETN ranked ahead of Swift? CEH? That would be hard for me to justify, but again, ranking players is tough, and everyone's going to have a different opinion.

 

I just wouldn't have ETN up there with CEH, Swift, or even Taylor (I loved Taylor, last year; I would have given our 2nd for him, but I get that Beane saw Epenesa's value as being higher, and he probably stuck out like a sore thumb on the Bills' board, so I get it), so it's hard for me to justify trading up for ETN, and I wouldn't be the happiest if he were our pick at 30. I just see better value at CB or DE.

 

I know the counter-argument: last year's draft was stacked at RB (and probably a more stacked draft, in general), so RBs were probably pushed down the board. I get that point, and it is valid, but it still doesn't make me feel good taking an RB just because they weren't pushed down the board in a strong draft. I kind of liken it to the 2013 E.J. Manuel pick. We dropped back (good thing! Gained draft capital, and still got a QB), but it was to draft a QB in what has become--historically--the worst QB draft in the past two decades, or so. It's that kind of a feeling, for me, so I just don't like it. 

 

I honestly put Etienne ahead of all those guys.  

 

Again, I won't be upset if we take a position with more relative value in the 1st Round, but Etienne is the first RB in a long time i've viewed as being worth a late 1st Round Pick.   I'm only taking a RB in the 1st if he has Alvin Kamara ability, and none of those guys (imo) do.... Etienne does. 

[ColoradoBills]

19 hours ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

Not sure if this has been included in any posts yet but take a look at this mock by the "experts" at PFF - 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-seven-round-mock-draft

 

See how long it takes you to find both Etienne and Harris...

 

That's pretty crazy that all 3 of the big RBs don't go until the 3rd round!

[Motorin']

Just now, SCBills said:

 

I honestly put Etienne ahead of all those guys.  

 

Again, I won't be upset if we take a position with more relative value in the 1st Round, but Etienne is the first RB in a long time i've viewed as being worth a late 1st Round Pick.   I'm only taking a RB in the 1st if he has Alvin Kamara ability, and none of those guys (imo) do.... Etienne does. 

 

I think people are missing the weapon he is as a receiver. He can put up Cole Beasley numbers.  

[Reed83HOF]

43 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Considering we were pretty close to the top last year? Maybe.

 

Especially when our biggest issue when we got close to the top was not being able to sustain drives, score points, control the clock, and keep the other team off the field.

 

We arent rebuilding. We arent even really building anymore. We are tweaking and bolstering. Now would be the time to make this kind of move.

The number of touches a game from a running perspective might not change a whole lot, unless we get up enough in points and are efficient enough running to grind the clock down and win.

 

Where is see ETN being better than Harris and others is the passing game, the ability to throw to the RB underneath and have them actually catch a ball and be somewhat dangerous is what is a big missing piece.how many x and long plays were we in last year that required heroics to get out off? That is something that is not sustainable and without some of them, we would not have necessarily made the AFCCG. It forces the defense to change their game plan, KC took our WRs out of the game and on offense we had zero answers. I don't see another WR position necessarily helping that.  A better RB fills this need.

 

[appoo]

You gotta separate your RBs

 

- Change of pace backs/specialty (4th and lower)

- Dudes who can get you 1100 - 1400 on a 17 game schedule, and operate in a 4 minute offense (2nd-3rd) - Dobbins, Cam, Taylor

- legit 3 down backs (1st - 2nd) - Swift, CEH

- game plan backs. Guys who are such weapons that they're either your first or 2nd choice (1st round) and force defenses to adjust their defenses to contain them - SaQuon, McCaffery, Dalvin Cook

 

ETN is interesting because some might see him in that top echelon, and others the 2nd echelon

Edited April 28, 2021 by appoo

[RyanC883]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:30 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Or bills want everyone to think they want etienne so someone jumps up for him and other guys fall 

 

Hopefully Williams!!

[Fred Slacks]

I have zero faith if the Bills are looking to move up that it is for ETN.  I have no doubts they are putting out feelers to see what it would take to move up, but if they move up it is for DE or CB.  Nothing else.  I am not saying I know anything.  I am just saying this front office is too smart.  If they move up it is for a premium position.  I personally think they want a DE.  I know there are different thoughts on who is best.  I personally like Gregory Rosseau (SP?).  I like they way he contains on option runs and chases down plays.  I know he didn't test well but he has the production and is long.  HE would be who I would target.  With any luck the year off helps him slip a bit.  

[RyanC883]

5 minutes ago, Fred Slacks said:

I have zero faith if the Bills are looking to move up that it is for ETN.  I have no doubts they are putting out feelers to see what it would take to move up, but if they move up it is for DE or CB.  Nothing else.  I am not saying I know anything.  I am just saying this front office is too smart.  If they move up it is for a premium position.  I personally think they want a DE.  I know there are different thoughts on who is best.  I personally like Gregory Rosseau (SP?).  I like they way he contains on option runs and chases down plays.  I know he didn't test well but he has the production and is long.  HE would be who I would target.  With any luck the year off helps him slip a bit.  

 

i agree.  it is likely for a de.  the draft is super think at impact guys there.  one of the 3 top RBs will be there at 30, so why trade?  

[Logic]

5 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

Oh fyi....wanna know how you can help your defense? Sustain more drives on offense and keep your own defense off the field.

 

Drafting ETN = indirectly helps the Bills defense by keeping them off the field more. It's all connected. Your best defense is a great offense.

 

You should think things through before u post. 

You have proven my point again. Thanks.

Insulting and condescending --  a great mixture of things to be if you want to be taken seriously or engaged in meaningful conversation with fellow fans of the same team 🙄

Here, let me give it a try:

"Oh fyi...wanna know how you can help your offense? Stop the opposing offense more on defense and put your own offense back on the field more quickly and often. You should think things through before u post."

See? It's a lot of fun to be talked down to. And as I have just shown, you're not nearly as unimpeachably brilliant as you think you are. You don't have the market cornered on team building or football strategy. Try swallowing a spoonful of humility, accept that you're not Football Jesus, and learn to speak to other people with some semblance of respect. Otherwise everyone will continue to roll their eyes the second they see your username pop up in a thread.

[Figster]

19 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

i agree.  it is likely for a de.  the draft is super think at impact guys there.  one of the 3 top RBs will be there at 30, so why trade?  

For the catching and blocking ability of Najee Harris IMO. Process kind of guy. 3 down work horse. Brings a champion mentality that was very instrumental in Saban/ Alabama accomplishments. (Imediate impact on the pass and run game IMO)