McShay- Bills trying to move up above 23 for Etienne

[OldTimer1960]

6 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

In order to beat the Chiefs, you're going to have the ball last against them to win, and you're going to have to match them offensively anyways. Let's say you draft a CB or DE at 30. The Chiefs are still scoring 30+ on the Bills.

 

Man, u still don't see the big picture. The Chiefs O will be unstoppable with LT Orlando LG Thuney. The Bills are right on the cusp of making their own offense unstoppable. They need a final piece in ETN.

 

 

Of course not - I am not omnipotent as you are.  What I do know is that Etienne had roughly 2.5x the wear and tear in college as Alvin Kamara did.

[GreggTX]

I will be SERIOUSLY disappointed if Beane does this while our obviously far greater needs on the DL, G and CB go unmet. Beane has yet to draft anyone in the 2nd round who is worth a ____ . At least he drafted Singletary in the 3rd and Davis in the 4th. Still, we're a couple of probowlers away from winning a SB, but so far we've basically just resigned our own. Wasting a 1st rounder on a RB does little or nothing to improve our chances. Well, that's my take, but I know some of you would like this move. Whoever they draft, I hope they turn out to be great.

[philholbroo]

if he can be like cj spiller the chief killer, ill be ok with it. 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

 

No.

 

This isn't Center Landon Dickerson in college getting great push off the ball on every running play for Harris.

 

This is Center Mitch Morse in the NFL getting stalemated at the point of attack in the run game.

 

Brandon Beane already ruled out RBs who are similar to the 2 they have. Harris and Moss are similar, Beane already told you Harris isn't the pick.

 

Do u want the offense to take the next level and create even more explosive plays on the ground and through the air? Yes or no?

 

ETN accomplishes that.

 

So I heard.

 

Look, I think he's a terrific RB and I won't kill them for the pick (depending on who they pass on). But in NO WAY do I want to move up for him. 

 

I'm assuming the "big 4" CBs are off the board by 30. 

 

Unless a JOK or a Barmore should fall (doubtful), I believe the best value will be a WR.

[BornAgainBillsFan]

In the Wizard of One Bills Drive I trust!!

 

He's not going to do something crazy. He never has. He's making calls. That's what GMs do.

[Rocket94]

50 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

People saying smoke screen, haven't the players the bills were interested in the past few drafts all leaked the days leading up to the draft? Even mid round guys

This team is not as good as advertised, so they better not miss on draft picks.

[stinky finger]

14 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

U must factor in the double whammy.

 

The Jets are a divisional rival. They need a RB and would take ETN at 23. Beane probably likes ETN so much that he wouldn't want to face him twice a year with Zach Wilson. 

 

Trade up for ETN is a double whammy

 

1) You improve at Offensive Playmaker on your roster, which is the final piece.

 

2) You prevent the Jets from pairing Wilson with ETN, so you hurt a division rival in the process. Beane stresses the importance of building to win the division 1st.

 

So you want the Jets to take ETN at 23 and pair him with Zach Wilson?

 

Beane wants to jump the division rival Jets at 23. Improve yourself, while making division rival worse.

 

Sooo -.we should take ETN so the JEts don’t?!?

 

ok - we’re done here. 

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Sooo -.we should take ETN so the JEts don’t?!?

 

ok - we’re done here. 

 

The Jets have proven over the last few years that they are great identifiers of talent in the draft...

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Of course not - I am not omnipotent as you are.  What I do know is that Etienne had roughly 2.5x the wear and tear in college as Alvin Kamara did.

 

 

He definitely should have come out last season if the objective was to maximize his pro production.........but it was a strong RB class and there was a legit chance he might have been the 3rd or 4th RB in that class despite 2019 being his best season.    If someone takes him in round 1 it likely panned out financially.....but in terms of NFL production, he left one of his prime years in college.

[YoloinOhio]

23 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

U must factor in the double whammy.

 

The Jets are a divisional rival. They need a RB and would take ETN at 23. Beane probably likes ETN so much that he wouldn't want to face him twice a year with Zach Wilson. 

 

Trade up for ETN is a double whammy

 

1) You improve at Offensive Playmaker on your roster, which is the final piece.

 

2) You prevent the Jets from pairing Wilson with ETN, so you hurt a division rival in the process. Beane stresses the importance of building to win the division 1st.

 

So you want the Jets to take ETN at 23 and pair him with Zach Wilson?

 

Beane wants to jump the division rival Jets at 23. Improve yourself, while making division rival worse.

The Jets are rebuilding and not in a position to use a 1st rd pick on a RB. They have huge needs everywhere especially at LB, OL, TE and CB. The Bills are in a position to do it, if they choose to. 

[purple haze]

14 hours ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

True, and true to the first two points, but I'm not concerned that Beane, McDermott, or Daboll envision Brieda as anything more than a change-of-pace backup. I don't think we would have got him on the bargain-basement contract we landed him on, if Brieda, his agent, or the NFL thought otherwise.

 

Yeah, I'd agree, but I also think Beane understands and incorporates long-term value into impact. An impact player for 5 years, that you replace after that doesn't jive with the roster-building that Beane has tended to show with his tendencies in early-round picks. Look at the length of leash Knox and Singletary have had. Think about how Dawkins had that rough, rough 2nd year (we all forget that, and granted, it was because there were steaming piles of decaying poo on our line, around him, that year). Even Zay hung around well past his welcome. I've witnessed Beane giving players a chance, and hoping for a long-term stay in Buffalo, especially with our earlier picks. 

 

Possibly, but rumors this time of year always make me skeptical. We'll see. 

Thursday will be interesting.  I actually like Singletary.  I look at Etienne as not just a RB.  He’s a playmaker.   But I’m skeptical now that this rumor is out.  I think Beane will trade up but probably for a different player.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

 

In order to beat the Chiefs, you're going to have the ball last against them to win, and you're going to have to match them offensively anyways. Let's say you draft a CB or DE at 30. The Chiefs are still scoring 30+ on the Bills.

 

Man, u still don't see the big picture. The Chiefs O will be unstoppable with LT Orlando LG Thuney. The Bills are right on the cusp of making their own offense unstoppable. They need a final piece in ETN.

 

 

Two things:

 

1.) Your first paragraph completely pretends the Bucs didn’t just beat the Chiefs by limiting them to 9 points in the Super Bowl. You DO NOT “have to” get into a shootout with them and have the ball last, and simply waving the white flag and saying “screw it. Why even try to stop them?” is defeatist and weak.

 

2.) You have a way of talking to people — not just in the quoted post but in general, ever since you showed up here — that is very condescending and insulting. It is okay to disagree with people and still be respectful toward them. We’re all Bills fans here.

 

 

Lastly, the Bills ranked 2nd in scoring offense and 16th in scoring defense last year. If you feel that adding to the already great offense is the best way to improve the team, then that’s your prerogative. But to continually act like addressing the unit that ranked 16th is madness, and that addressing the unit that ranked 2nd is the one and only path to improvement, is confounding.
 

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and many feel that addressing the side of the ball that was objectively worse is a better way to skin this one. That doesn’t make them worthy of your belittlement. 

 

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Thursday will be interesting.  I actually like Singletary.  I look at Etienne as not just a RB.  He’s a playmaker.   But I’m skeptical now that this rumor is out.  I think Beane will trade up but probably for a different player.

 

I had watched some of Singletary's college film, prior to the draft, but didn't think we would land him in the 3rd. Thought it was a bit early, but I do really like what he is, when at his best. 

 

And yeah, ETN's a Swiss army knife, for sure; there's no discounting that. I just cringe at the cost-benefit of taking an RB in the 1st, unless they are so supremely talented (i.e. Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jim Brown, et al) that you cannot pass them up.

 

Well, good old Smokescreen Beane has definitely primed the engines for Thursday night; that's for sure!

 

My personal take: I would be cool with a trade up into the 20's for JC Horn, 25 or later for JOK or Greg Newsome. Other than that, unless someone incredible somehow drops like a rock, you hope there is a 1st round talent at 30, and if not, trade back for more picks in the 2nd - 4th.

[stinky finger]

7 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

The Bucs did that against the Chiefs backup OL.

 

You're now dealing with Orlando Brown at LT and Thuney at LG.

 

You're never stopping the Chiefs as constructed in 2021.

 

What the Bucs did in the Super Bowl is completely irrelevant moving forward after the Chiefs OL upgrades.

 

Wake up. Stop being delusional.

 

The Jets are taking ETN at 23 if he's there.

 

Don’t forget your lunchbox 

[CapeBreton]

11 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

People saying smoke screen, haven't the players the bills were interested in the past few drafts all leaked the days leading up to the draft? Even mid round guys

 

There were guys we knew the Bills had been in contact with and were potentially interested in (Allen, Harrison Phillips, Zack Moss to name a few) but there was never any reports of us trading up for a specific player in the days leading up to the draft. That's why I don't buy this.

 

I also saw that Ettienne's over/under draft position was 33.5 on a betting site I use. So maybe he isn't as highly ranked as we think.

[Richard Noggin]

11 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Oh fyi....wanna know how you can help your defense? Sustain more drives on offense and keep your own defense off the field.

 

Drafting ETN = indirectly helps the Bills defense by keeping them off the field more. It's all connected. Your best defense is a great offense.

 

You should think things through before u post. 

I love parody accounts like yours. Hilarious stuff!

 

Imagine joining a message board to crusade for a first-round running back...

[ROCBillsBeliever]

5 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

That's a terrible idea; you trade up for a weapon who helps your best player. ETN helps Josh Allen, those defensive players don't. 

 

Drafting for initial value without long-term value (or, expected devaluation, as is the case for nearly all RBs) is a terrible idea? Really? 

 

Okay... I won't argue with you. Skip to 12:30 minutes into the following podcast, and listen to Bruce Nolan's explanation of value arguments, and how it relates to taking an RB in the 1st round. He explains this much better than me:

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vYnVmZmFsby1ydW1ibGluZ3MtYmlsbHM/episode/ODMzZDZlNDYtOTI5Yy0xMWViLWI5OGYtNGYwZTg3MDhhMDRi?ep=14

 

I know... you won't actually listen to it, but essentially, I'm not saying ETN isn't the most talented RB in the draft, and I'm not saying he won't help JA. I agree with you on both points. But that is NOT my argument, bud... My argument is about value and it's more based on cost-benefit analysis and opportunity costs. 

 

It is not a terrible idea; you just don't know my premises. If you want to listen to that podcast, and argue that ETN (or nearly any RB in the 1st) is a good value, then I will disagree with you, but it doesn't sound like that's what you are arguing about; it sounds like your argument is "get Josh an elite weapon". Maybe I'm not reading your intent correctly; let me know. 

[SCBills]

In terms of value - of course running back isn’t a smart team building decision in the 1st Round.  I think most of us can agree on that.  
 

Two things:

 

1) Can Etienne be more than a RB?  Can he be a Kamara/McCaffrey type?

 

2) Are we “team building”?  I’d argue that being slotted at 30 means you are no longer team building.  Are the Chiefs team building?  No, they are simply adjusting... adjusting to fit cap constraints and re-tooling to stay on top of the AFC and win another Super Bowl. 
 

CB/EDGE certainly have more positional value in the 1st Round, but do they help us get to, and win, the Super Bowl more than Etienne?

[foreboding]

27 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Oh fyi....wanna know how you can help your defense? Sustain more drives on offense and keep your own defense off the field.

Drafting ETN = indirectly helps the Bills defense by keeping them off the field more. It's all connected. Your best defense is a great offense.

You should think things through before u post. 

Why? So he can speak in platitudes and weak coach speak like you do? This is all opinion so stop acting the draft whisperer. Remember, your just some guy behind a keyboard.

Edited April 28, 2021 by foreboding

[HOUSE]

Sure they are Todd...

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by HOUSE