Peter King Mock- Bills take Etienne

[billspro]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

If we are going DE, we need to trade up a bit if Kwity Paye starts falling and get him.  The other guys aren't likely to do much for us this year.  Guys like Oweh do nothing in the NFL.  Heck he did nothing in the Big 10 at Penn State.  Everyone wants these long lanky guys to play DE and rush the passer.  As big as most Olineman are, you need some strength and  bulk to get to the QB.  Dwight Freeney was one of the best DE's of all time rushing the passer, and he wasn't even 6 feet.  Get Paye or a good CB in the 1st round if we don't have to give up too much to move up.  Otherwise all day on Etienne or Najee!!  

In Oweh defence he did have the highest double team rate out of all the top DEs by a lot. He would have gotten some sacks if it was a full season. We are lucky it wasn’t a full season because he might fall to us. If he had 5 sacks this year we are talking about a top 15 pick. I think Oweh will be the best edge in this class but Paye will be very good. 
 

Check out Hunter from Minnesota if you don’t think guys like Oweh can be good.

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Good take. I love Harris out of the backfield but since I posted a couple months back that he would be my first round pick, I have switched to Etienne.  He may be the closest thing to Faulk or Tomlinson that the league has seen in a while.  I am admittedly biased as I think Thurman was the most important player in the K-gun offense.  I love RB's that can kill you in the pass game.  In many respects the league has moved on to TE/WR hybrids, but there is still a role for the pass catching RB.

Check out Michael Carter 

[HappyDays]

46 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The Bills did and do “score enough” to keep up with KC.  What you’re really talking about is being able to score faster - and a running back doesn’t help there.  To the contrary, most teams feature running backs to help them score more slowly!  The goal is to keep the other team’s offense off the field.  Which is a fine strategy at times - but it doesn’t require an elite talent at RB, just a good overall running scheme and blocking.

 

I think the play that turned the AFCC game was Singletary's drop with wide open space in front of him. That was our chance to keep up with KC and he whiffed it. Give that play to Etienne and I seriously think the whole game could have gone differently. Impossible to say for sure though.

 

I'm not saying I want the Bills to become a run heavy offense, the problem is right now we don't get any kind of pass catching or screen value from our RBs. Our entire offense last year was Josh Allen throwing to WRs. The truly elite offenses have more than one element they can rely on. As we learned in the AFCC if you can blanket our receivers the whole offense shuts down. With a pass catching RB with speed we could be legitimately unstoppable.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think the play that turned the AFCC game was Singletary's drop with wide open space in front of him. That was our chance to keep up with KC and he whiffed it. Give that play to Etienne and I seriously think the whole game could have gone differently. Impossible to say for sure though.

 

I'm not saying I want the Bills to become a run heavy offense, the problem is right now we don't get any kind of pass catching or screen value from our RBs. Our entire offense last year was Josh Allen throwing to WRs. The truly elite offenses have more than one element they can rely on. As we learned in the AFCC if you can blanket our receivers the whole offense shuts down. With a pass catching RB with speed we could be legitimately unstoppable.

 

How many punts did we force?  How many times did Mahomes have to even look to his second read?  The dropped screen wasn't even close to pivotal in that game.  It was a rout - they didn't defend anything the Chiefs did.  A screen pass to a running back would not have put the Bills in the Super Bowl.  Please.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

what amazes me about Peter King is how he has covered the NFL for so many years and how wrong he is. I wish someone did the math on his predictions or analyses, because he has to be so far below the mean, that it’s not even funny. 
 

one of my favorite Peter King predictions:

 

If I'm New England Patriots owner Bob Kraft,  I have to say no to Bill Belichick  now, hire Tom Donahoe  to run the football side of business, and get on with my life. Because if I'm Bob Kraft, this is the thought process going through my mind today as the Jets stonewall my compensation offer for Belichick and refuse to budge from their demand of New England's first-round draft choice in April's draft: I am willing to give a man with a coaching record of 37-45 full authority over all my football operations by naming him coach and general manager. I am willing to pay him in excess of $3 million a year. And now I have to throw in my first-round pick? I'm already without my fourth-round pick this year, and I'm sure to lose a couple of valued players like Tedy Bruschi and Shawn Jefferson  in free agency. Now I have to throw in the pick that could become Ron Dayne  and may solve our dilemma at running back for the next five years? Maybe I wait a couple more days for the Jets to budge. Assuming they don't, I get on with my life.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20020208020725/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/inside_game/peter_king/news/2000/01/26/ten_things/

 

[HappyDays]

27 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

How many punts did we force?  How many times did Mahomes have to even look to his second read?  The dropped screen wasn't even close to pivotal in that game.  It was a route - they didn't defend anything the Chiefs did.  A screen pass to a running back would not have put the Bills in the Super Bowl.  Please.

 

The Chiefs are vulnerable early in games, it usually takes them at least a quarter to start scoring at will. We squandered opportunities early in the game to get them off balance. If our defense can't stop the Chiefs, our offense needs to keep up with them. The Bucs defense obviously played an outstanding game, but they also scored 21 points in the 1st half and then 10 in the 3rd quarter. The Bills scored 12 points in the 1st half and 3 in the 3rd quarter, and one of our TDs was total luck off a muffed punt. I don't expect us to bring the defense up to the level of stopping the Chiefs in a single draft. But I do think the offense can raise to the level of being able to outpace them. Adding another element to our offense is the way to do it.

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think the play that turned the AFCC game was Singletary's drop with wide open space in front of him. That was our chance to keep up with KC and he whiffed it. Give that play to Etienne and I seriously think the whole game could have gone differently. Impossible to say for sure though.

 

I'm not saying I want the Bills to become a run heavy offense, the problem is right now we don't get any kind of pass catching or screen value from our RBs. Our entire offense last year was Josh Allen throwing to WRs. The truly elite offenses have more than one element they can rely on. As we learned in the AFCC if you can blanket our receivers the whole offense shuts down. With a pass catching RB with speed we could be legitimately unstoppable.

 

 

The Chiefs are a truly elite offense.......they have dominated the AFC for 3 years without a good pass catching RB.     

 

The reason they are elite is that they can pass for a score on you from anywhere on the field.

 

As far as a missing piece in the playmaking equation goes.......what the Bills need is some more diversity in their receiving corps.........they need a big deep threat option and/or a guy who can stretch the seam.  

 

Adding a dump-down option at RB to an offense that throws tons of short passes already does not equate to what the Chiefs do to defenses.........which is stretch them vertically and expose them underneath.

[Maynard]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

My favorite part was that I had to scroll all the way down to #30 to see the Bills pick. I’m not accustomed to having to demonstrate that kind of patience! Let’s keep drafting in that range! I could get used to it! 

I hear ya!! It’s weird as hell, but I like it 👍 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

44 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

what amazes me about Peter King is how he has covered the NFL for so many years and how wrong he is. I wish someone did the math on his predictions or analyses, because he has to be so far below the mean, that it’s not even funny. 
 

one of my favorite Peter King predictions:

 

If I'm New England Patriots owner Bob Kraft,  I have to say no to Bill Belichick  now, hire Tom Donahoe  to run the football side of business, and get on with my life. Because if I'm Bob Kraft, this is the thought process going through my mind today as the Jets stonewall my compensation offer for Belichick and refuse to budge from their demand of New England's first-round draft choice in April's draft: I am willing to give a man with a coaching record of 37-45 full authority over all my football operations by naming him coach and general manager. I am willing to pay him in excess of $3 million a year. And now I have to throw in my first-round pick? I'm already without my fourth-round pick this year, and I'm sure to lose a couple of valued players like Tedy Bruschi and Shawn Jefferson  in free agency. Now I have to throw in the pick that could become Ron Dayne  and may solve our dilemma at running back for the next five years? Maybe I wait a couple more days for the Jets to budge. Assuming they don't, I get on with my life.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20020208020725/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/inside_game/peter_king/news/2000/01/26/ten_things/

 

Maybe King was right about Belichick.  The Pats dynasty was 75% or more due to Brady.  Give BB credit for building a defense of veteran cast-offs to go with some truly great players at the ends of their careers. After that it was all Brady.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Chiefs are a truly elite offense.......they have dominated the AFC for 3 years without a good pass catching RB.     

 

The reason they are elite is that they can pass for a score on you from anywhere on the field.

 

As far as a missing piece in the playmaking equation goes.......what the Bills need is some more diversity in their receiving corps.........they need a big deep threat option and/or a guy who can stretch the seam.  

 

Adding a dump-down option at RB to an offense that throws tons of short passes already does not equate to what the Chiefs do to defenses.........which is stretch them vertically and expose them underneath.

The Chiefs don't have a big deep threat.   Th biggest WR they had was 6-1.  Diggs is 6'0" and Davis is 6'2". They have elite speed in Hill that almost no other team has and an elite TE.  

The Bills need to counter with Knox getting better and adding another speed weapon. That could be Etienne. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

The Chiefs don't have a big deep threat.   Th biggest WR they had was 6-1.  Diggs is 6'0" and Davis is 6'2". They have elite speed in Hill that almost no other team has and an elite TE.  

The Bills need to counter with Knox getting better and adding another speed weapon. That could be Etienne. 

 

 

Tyreek Hill ran a 4.29 and has averaged 14.5 yards per reception for his career and Mecole Hardman runs a 4.33 and averages 16.7 ypc.    Both tore up the Bills in the AFCCG.   They don't track the deep ball too badly either.   

 

Those are big play threats with the speed to back up the fear.

 

Stefon Diggs is a great receiver.........he's now the "burner" of their starting corps..........but speed-wise his 4.46 is the same as the Chiefs 5th WR option in 2020 Byron Pringle.

 

It's pretty obvious that the Bills WR corps lacks speed.    

 

Etienne isn't in the class of Hill or Hardman in terms of speed........I doubt he could outrun Diggs or Pringle in the open field.    The talent and speed plays WR nowadays.  RB's barely move the needle and expecting Etienne to be the exception is 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Tyreek Hill ran a 4.29 and has averaged 14.5 yards per reception for his career and Mecole Hardman runs a 4.33 and averages 16.7 ypc.    Both tore up the Bills in the AFCCG.   They don't track the deep ball too badly either.   

 

Those are big play threats with the speed to back up the fear.

 

Stefon Diggs is a great receiver.........he's now the "burner" of their starting corps..........but speed-wise his 4.46 is the same as the Chiefs 5th WR option in 2020 Byron Pringle.

 

It's pretty obvious that the Bills WR corps lacks speed.    

 

Etienne isn't in the class of Hill or Hardman in terms of speed........I doubt he could outrun Diggs or Pringle in the open field.    The talent and speed plays WR nowadays.  RB's barely move the needle and expecting Etienne to be the exception is 

By big I assumed you meant height like Julio Jones or AJ Green.

Straight line speed is at best the 3rd most important attribute for a WR. First it is route running and then it is their hands. Third is probably body control and then speed. There have been plenty of pure speed guys that are not good WRs.

The NFL is about matchups. A RB on a LB or safety is a matchup problem. Just like an elite TE is a matchup problem.  You can take out a WR from a gameplan easily becuase you will always match them with a corner and double with a safety.  It is much harder to defend an elite TE or RB.

[Nextmanup]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Tyreek Hill ran a 4.29 and has averaged 14.5 yards per reception for his career and Mecole Hardman runs a 4.33 and averages 16.7 ypc.    Both tore up the Bills in the AFCCG.   They don't track the deep ball too badly either.   

 

Those are big play threats with the speed to back up the fear.

 

Stefon Diggs is a great receiver.........he's now the "burner" of their starting corps..........but speed-wise his 4.46 is the same as the Chiefs 5th WR option in 2020 Byron Pringle.

 

It's pretty obvious that the Bills WR corps lacks speed.    

 

Etienne isn't in the class of Hill or Hardman in terms of speed........I doubt he could outrun Diggs or Pringle in the open field.    The talent and speed plays WR nowadays.  RB's barely move the needle and expecting Etienne to be the exception is 

Watch how many times a Diggs catch ends by him simply going to the turf wrapped up in a ball to protect himself, sort of in a fetal position.

 

He doest that constantly, because he is constantly quickly caught by much faster defenders and he just wisely goes down to protect himself, knowing the play is basically over and he's not going to get much more yardage.  

 

He was statistically just about the best WR in the GAME last year and I'll take him just the way he is, but he doesn't have any speed at all.

 

We definitely need more raw speed threats all over the lineup, if we can get them!  

 

Can't have too much speed, ever.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

By big I assumed you meant height like Julio Jones or AJ Green.

Straight line speed is at best the 3rd most important attribute for a WR. First it is route running and then it is their hands. Third is probably body control and then speed. There have been plenty of pure speed guys that are not good WRs.

The NFL is about matchups. A RB on a LB or safety is a matchup problem. Just like an elite TE is a matchup problem.  You can take out a WR from a gameplan easily becuase you will always match them with a corner and double with a safety.  It is much harder to defend an elite TE or RB.

Quickness counts too as we've seen it with Diggs and Beasley as neither is stop watch fast but they're quick enough to get seperation. I agree your feelings on elite TEa but RBs not so much.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Watch how many times a Diggs catch ends by him simply going to the turf wrapped up in a ball to protect himself, sort of in a fetal position.

 

He doest that constantly, because he is constantly quickly caught by much faster defenders and he just wisely goes down to protect himself, knowing the play is basically over and he's not going to get much more yardage.  

 

He was statistically just about the best WR in the GAME last year and I'll take him just the way he is, but he doesn't have any speed at all.

 

We definitely need more raw speed threats all over the lineup, if we can get them!  

 

Can't have too much speed, ever.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought the myth that Diggs isn't that fast had died the death it deserves, but apparently not. https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Stefon-Diggs-fastest-player-in-NFL-Minnesota-Vikings-48715901/ 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

56 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Maybe King was right about Belichick.  The Pats dynasty was 75% or more due to Brady.  Give BB credit for building a defense of veteran cast-offs to go with some truly great players at the ends of their careers. After that it was all Brady.  

I don’t disagree with the premise that Brady was the driver of their success. But King’s hot take to bank on Tom Donahoe As GM, Don Capers as head coach, and Ron Dayne as a cornerstone player is about as bad of a take as you can make as a football analyst. 

[OldTimer1960]

It is a fugly draft at positions that the Bills’ need most.  Any DE available at 30 is either a one year producer, low producer-high upside, high-producer with injury concerns or not very exciting as a prospect.

CB is mostly a jumble of ok prospects, with exception of Farley who has major injury risk or Newsome who likely goes before Bills’ pick.

 

I trust Beane to make an informed decision.  Of those likely available, I am not sure what to do.  None of the likely suspects really intrigues me.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by OldTimer1960

[BADOLBILZ]

40 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Watch how many times a Diggs catch ends by him simply going to the turf wrapped up in a ball to protect himself, sort of in a fetal position.

 

He doest that constantly, because he is constantly quickly caught by much faster defenders and he just wisely goes down to protect himself, knowing the play is basically over and he's not going to get much more yardage.  

 

He was statistically just about the best WR in the GAME last year and I'll take him just the way he is, but he doesn't have any speed at all.

 

We definitely need more raw speed threats all over the lineup, if we can get them!  

 

Can't have too much speed, ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah he is fast enough to get over the top but you gotta' scheme for it with an under-center QB play action system like Minnesota did in 2019.

 

The Bills aren't going to go to a Minnesota or Tennessee style play-action offense.

 

In the open field Diggs isn't scaring anyone with his RAC ability.    Much, much more difficult to stay with before he catches the ball.

 

Speed is much more important at the WR position than at the RB position.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/26/2021-nfl-mock-draft-fmia-peter-king/

 

I note that King predicts Bills are drafting him at #30

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought the myth that Diggs isn't that fast had died the death it deserves, but apparently not. https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Stefon-Diggs-fastest-player-in-NFL-Minnesota-Vikings-48715901/ 

 

 

I've seen you cite that stat from 5 seasons ago(2016) before........it was the 4th fastest clocked top speed on a run in 2016 not "the fastest"..........but per Next Gen stats it's the only time he's shown up on the top 20 high mph runs in his career.

 

He's since had two 100 catch seasons and a 2019 season where he was used a ton on deep routes.   Lot's of chances to get back on there.   But nope.   

 

Top speed measured in a certain nano-second over a long run does not necessarily tell you how fast a guy covers a lot of ground.

 

If it takes Diggs 6 strides to reach an mph that Hill and Hardman reach in 4........that's probably the difference between 4.3 and 4.46 over 40 yards........and the difference between getting tackled in the open field and getting the edge on the defense.  

 

And that's what the eyeball test should be telling you........because quite clearly he is not as explosive as those guys.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by BADOLBILZ
spelling

[TFBillsfan]

It’s been a long, long, long time since the Bills drafted in this position based upon their record. IMO, drafting a RB at 30 isn’t the same as drafting a RB in the top ten of the draft. Basically, you’re almost into the 2nd round already. It’s obvious we have multiple needs but with the 30th pick if RB is the pick, then that tells me the Bills don’t see the talent level at DE or CB. It’s not like they won’t address those positions in the draft but with the 30th pick, give me the best playmaker on either O or D that can make an impact this year.