Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 Since I started this thread I went through to recap what was said in here. From our right wing people actual ideas that the right runs on: still none The right has even strayed from tax cuts. With the infrastructure bill they want user fees which are a regressive tax. Biden is saying oh no Republicans don’t raise taxes on people under $400,000 of income. I promised I would not do that. see that’s an interesting point. Biden said I won’t raise taxes on people making under $400,000. Republicans try doing that. Biden says no Republicans, bad and sprays them with a water bottle.
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Since I started this thread I went through to recap what was said in here. From our right wing people actual ideas that the right runs on: still none The right has even strayed from tax cuts. With the infrastructure bill they want user fees which are a regressive tax. Biden is saying oh no Republicans don’t raise taxes on people under $400,000 of income. I promised I would not do that. see that’s an interesting point. Biden said I won’t raise taxes on people making under $400,000. Republicans try doing that. Biden says no Republicans, bad and sprays them with a water bottle. Fiscally, conservatives allowed Trump to compromise them on their traditional policy views. I’d say the biggest issues the right runs on - that they are actually serious about - are the pro-life agenda, protecting gun rights, border security and cultural anti-wokeism (which is a crossover issue that attracts some disaffected liberals). Im not much of a gun guy, and I’m for amnesty and abolishing the death penalty, but I’m also pro-life and think the woke agenda/authoritarianism is a massive threat to our country, so Republicans get my support for the foreseeable future. Edited May 17, 2021 by SCBills
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SCBills said: Fiscally, conservatives allowed Trump to compromise them on their traditional policy views. I’d say the biggest issues the right runs on - that they are actually serious about - are the pro-life agenda, protecting gun rights, border security and cultural anti-wokeism (which is a crossover issue that attracts some disaffected liberals). Im not much of a gun guy, and I’m for amnesty and abolishing the death penalty, but I’m also pro-life and think the woke agenda/authoritarianism is a massive threat to our country, so Republicans get my support for the foreseeable future. I framed the OP as they’re not hypocrites on for your points: 1. Pro-life - are they? They’re more pro being born. After that fend for yourself. Is that really pro-life? 2. protecting gun rights - what are they protecting? Who had tried taking guns? 3. Border security - Obama removed more unlawful immigrants than Bush and they said he was weak on border security. That’s more of a buzz word than a position I’d say 4. Cultural anti-Wokism... can we even define that? Like imagine being a Lincoln standing up on a podium and saying I’m running on cultural anti-wokism From your next para It seems maybe you think wokeism is cancel cultural maybe? Republicans deal in cancel culture all the time. They wanted to cancel MLB for moving an all star game. They wasted millions on a political stunt to have Pence walk out on an NFL game. Edited May 17, 2021 by Backintheday544 1
FireChans Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Since I started this thread I went through to recap what was said in here. From our right wing people actual ideas that the right runs on: still none The right has even strayed from tax cuts. With the infrastructure bill they want user fees which are a regressive tax. Biden is saying oh no Republicans don’t raise taxes on people under $400,000 of income. I promised I would not do that. see that’s an interesting point. Biden said I won’t raise taxes on people making under $400,000. Republicans try doing that. Biden says no Republicans, bad and sprays them with a water bottle. Wow you started a thread and got the exact conclusion you wanted!
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: I framed the OP as they’re not hypocrites on for your points: 1. Pro-life - are they? They’re more pro being born. After that fend for yourself. Is that really pro-life? 2. protecting gun rights - what are they protecting? Who had tried taking guns? 3. Border security - Obama removed more unlawful immigrants than Bush and they said he was weak on border security. That’s more of a buzz word than a position I’d say 4. Cultural anti-Wokism... can we even define that? Like imagine being a Lincoln standing up on a podium and saying I’m running on cultural anti-wokism From your next para It seems maybe you think wokeism is cancel cultural maybe? Republicans deal in cancel culture all the time. They wanted to cancel MLB for moving an all star game. They wasted millions on a political stunt to have Pence walk out on an NFL game. As someone who is pro-life, I’d agree with you that too many are pro-birth. That said, even the most “altruistic” are typically only halfway there... Dems want anyone who wants to, to come here, but pay no mind to the cost of human trafficking. Dems typically have no idea what they are talking about with guns, so they say stupid stuff that annoys gun owners and riles everyone up. Not now border security isn’t a buzz word. Massive difference between Trump and Biden. Wokeism is a multitude of things. CRT being taught in schools, trans issues in relation to kids, tech censorship, authoritarian responses to the pandemic etc., I won’t say “cancel culture” because online conservatives finally realized they need to fight fire with fire on this topic. It’s a necessary evil. Edited May 17, 2021 by SCBills
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Wow you started a thread and got the exact conclusion you wanted! I mean one of the right wing leaning people could have provided something. @SCBillsdid a good job line 7 pages in!
FireChans Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) On 4/24/2021 at 11:13 PM, Backintheday544 said: Can we name a right wing position that they were not hypocrites about the last say 5 years? - for example - I’m a fiscal conservatist is not a good position unless they can align TCJA to their belief. (same with ignoring the debt ceiling the past 4 years) 2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: I mean one of the right wing leaning people could have provided something. @SCBillsdid a good job line 7 pages in! I mean, who wouldn’t rush to jump in to such a good faith argument posed in the OP? I routinely engage folks in healthy debate when they call me a hypocrite off the bat. Nice work. Edited May 17, 2021 by FireChans 1
B-Man Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 There is only one Conservative position, from which all others grow. The God given, say nature given if you would rather, LIBERTY of the INDIVIDUAL. No group rights, No government given freedoms. The INDIVIDUAL and the freedoms that he/she enjoys.
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, SCBills said: As someone who is pro-life, I’d agree with you that too many are pro-birth. That said, even the most “altruistic” are typically only halfway there... Dems want anyone who wants to, to come here, but pay no mind to the cost of human trafficking. Dems typically have no idea what they are talking about with guns, so they say stupid stuff that annoys gun owners and riles everyone up. Not now border security isn’t a buzz word. Massive difference between Trump and Biden. Wokeism is a multitude of things. CRT being taught in schools, trans issues in relation to kids, tech censorship, authoritarian responses to the pandemic etc., I won’t say “cancel culture” because online conservatives finally realized they need to fight fire with fire on this topic. It’s a necessary evil. -Pro-birth/pro-choice will always be a split if there’s strong feelings on way or the other. If a person is so strong pro-birth they’d be okay with a candidate that says he would grab a person who was born by the *****. Because the opposite (killing a fetus) is too terrible not to vote for. One interesting question would be where would that tipping point be for a pro-birth person to have a candidate that was so reprehensible to switch to a pro-choice candidate. - Dems say stupid things about guns. I like guns. But they come off like idiots some times. Yet the fear is Dems will take your guns. They ran against Biden on that. Is their position pro-gun or Dems will take your guns? - What Biden positions have changed on border security? Dems are mad on how he’s handled families in cages. But what official Biden position has caused you concerned? As pro-birth, I assume you were appalled at separating families that was around during the a Trump admin. Surely you spoke out about that. - What you listed both parties do. In this country Dems are the majority so its more apparent that the majority gets it way in capitalistic society. 13 minutes ago, B-Man said: There is only one Conservative position, from which all others grow. The God given, say nature given if you would rather, LIBERTY of the INDIVIDUAL. No group rights, No government given freedoms. The INDIVIDUAL and the freedoms that he/she enjoys. A women wants to get an abortion shortly after finding out about pregnancy. Isn’t the Republican position to limit her liberty? A major league sport decides they don’t like a stance by a political party. Isn’t it limiting liberty by saying to boycott the sport when they decide to love their all star game to a different place? You may also want to tone up on philosophical thought like the social social contract. Edit: wanted to add gay marriage. Republicans we support liberty but we can tell you who you can or can’t marry Edited May 17, 2021 by Backintheday544
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: -Pro-birth/pro-choice will always be a split if there’s strong feelings on way or the other. If a person is so strong pro-birth they’d be okay with a candidate that says he would grab a person who was born by the *****. Because the opposite (killing a fetus) is too terrible not to vote for. One interesting question would be where would that tipping point be for a pro-birth person to have a candidate that was so reprehensible to switch to a pro-choice candidate. - Dems say stupid things about guns. I like guns. But they come off like idiots some times. Yet the fear is Dems will take your guns. They ran against Biden on that. Is their position pro-gun or Dems will take your guns? - What Biden positions have changed on border security? Dems are mad on how he’s handled families in cages. But what official Biden position has caused you concerned? As pro-birth, I assume you were appalled at separating families that was around during the a Trump admin. Surely you spoke out about that. - What you listed both parties do. In this country Dems are the majority so its more apparent that the majority gets it way in capitalistic society. If you believe abortion is murder, I’m not sure what level of awful a candidate would have to be to not vote for the pro-life candidate. I do think we need more nuance on this topic. Biden flaunting his Catholicism and then going further than most and repealing the Hyde Amendment is pretty gross though. I think the gun issue is more rhetoric than substance, which is why I pointed out Dems say stupid stuff that makes people believe they will lose their guns, and Republicans smartly take advantage of that. I did speak out about kids in cages, for both administrations, as well as under Obama when he had kids in cages and also in makeshift meat lockers. Numbers don’t lie, and Biden’s passive commentary on the border gave a signal to come here. I have a mixed view on border issues, but Trump was militant on securing the border and Biden is most definitely not. ....as easily evidenced by the numbers already. We’ve never seen anything like this Maoist conformity push that we’re seeing from elements of the Dem Party right now. At least not in my lifetime as a guy in my 30’s who grew up in politics. it’s created unlikely allies for conservatives in people like Glenn Greenwald, Tim Pool, Jimmy Dore etc. Unfortunately corporate dems are motivated by this new religion. This pandemic exposed quite a bit, and I’ll support the side that didn’t lockdown for a year, advocate arresting its own people, while floating the idea of vaccine passports. Edited May 17, 2021 by SCBills
BillStime Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, SCBills said: If you believe abortion is murder, I’m not sure what level of awful a candidate would have to be to not vote for the pro-life candidate. I do think we need more nuance on this topic. Biden flaunting his Catholicism and then going further than most and repealing the Hyde Amendment is pretty gross though. I think the gun issue is more rhetoric than substance, which is why I pointed out Dems say stupid stuff that makes people believe they will lose their guns, and Republicans smartly take advantage of that. I did speak out about kids in cages, for both administrations, as well as under Obama when he had kids in cages and also in makeshift meat lockers. Numbers don’t lie, and Biden’s passive commentary on the border gave a signal to come here. I have a mixed view on border issues, but Trump was militant on securing the border and Biden is most definitely not. ....as easily evidenced by the numbers already. We’ve never seen anything like this Maoist conformity push that we’re seeing from elements of the Dem Party right now. At least not in my lifetime as a guy in my 30’s who grew up in politics. it’s created unlikely allies for conservatives in people like Glenn Greenwald, Tim Pool, Jimmy Dore etc. Unfortunately corporate dems are motivated by this new religion. PS - Catholics get abortions, too!
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, SCBills said: If you believe abortion is murder, I’m not sure what level of awful a candidate would have to be to not vote for the pro-life candidate. I do think we need more nuance on this topic. Biden flaunting his Catholicism and then going further than most and repealing the Hyde Amendment is pretty gross though. I think the gun issue is more rhetoric than substance, which is why I pointed out Dems say stupid stuff that makes people believe they will lose their guns, and Republicans smartly take advantage of that. I did speak out about kids in cages, for both administrations, as well as under Obama when he had kids in cages and also in makeshift meat lockers. Numbers don’t lie, and Biden’s passive commentary on the border gave a signal to come here. I have a mixed view on border issues, but Trump was militant on securing the border and Biden is most definitely not. ....as easily evidenced by the numbers already. We’ve never seen anything like this Maoist conformity push that we’re seeing from elements of the Dem Party right now. At least not in my lifetime as a guy in my 30’s who grew up in politics. it’s created unlikely allies for conservatives in people like Glenn Greenwald, Tim Pool, Jimmy Dore etc. Unfortunately corporate dems are motivated by this new religion. If you believe abortion is murder no one will fault you for voting Republican. Like the Q stuff, if you actually think Dems are selling kids off for child slaves (or whatever Qs think) then yes that’s a good position to take based on your ideas on the subject. Agree on guns. It’s dumb. Dems aren’t taking guns. Republicans like making it an add. Dumb people fall for it (less educated people do lean R recently) What numbers do you find between Biden and Trump concerning the First 100 days? Like specific numbers. Theres no Maoist push by Dems. Dems if anything are leveraging capitalism to have a greater sway. Think of it this way. If there’s 100 people that will buy your product. 60 of them will line your idea. 40 of them will not. Who will you market to, the 60 people or the 40?
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 20 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: -Pro-birth/pro-choice will always be a split if there’s strong feelings on way or the other. If a person is so strong pro-birth they’d be okay with a candidate that says he would grab a person who was born by the *****. Because the opposite (killing a fetus) is too terrible not to vote for. One interesting question would be where would that tipping point be for a pro-birth person to have a candidate that was so reprehensible to switch to a pro-choice candidate. - Dems say stupid things about guns. I like guns. But they come off like idiots some times. Yet the fear is Dems will take your guns. They ran against Biden on that. Is their position pro-gun or Dems will take your guns? - What Biden positions have changed on border security? Dems are mad on how he’s handled families in cages. But what official Biden position has caused you concerned? As pro-birth, I assume you were appalled at separating families that was around during the a Trump admin. Surely you spoke out about that. - What you listed both parties do. In this country Dems are the majority so its more apparent that the majority gets it way in capitalistic society. A women wants to get an abortion shortly after finding out about pregnancy. Isn’t the Republican position to limit her liberty? A major league sport decides they don’t like a stance by a political party. Isn’t it limiting liberty by saying to boycott the sport when they decide to love their all star game to a different place? You may also want to tone up on philosophical thought like the social social contract. Edit: wanted to add gay marriage. Republicans we support liberty but we can tell you who you can or can’t marry It’s not limiting liberty if you believe a life is being taken. I’m not limiting your liberty if I tell you, that you can’t kill a newborn baby. For pro-life people a baby at 3, 4, 7 months is the same thing. Yes. Republicans need to abandon principles on this one and stop getting punched in the face because corporations are only scared of leftist pushback. Absolutely hypocritical though. Most Republicans don’t care about gay marriage.
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, SCBills said: It’s not limiting liberty if you believe a life is being taken. I’m not limiting your liberty if I tell you, that you can’t kill a newborn baby. For pro-life people a baby at 3, 4, 7 months is the same thing. Yes. Republicans need to abandon principles on this one and stop getting punched in the face because corporations are only scared of leftist pushback. Absolutely hypocritical though. Most Republicans don’t care about gay marriage. That’s what I’m saying. If you think abortion is murdering a baby then I see nothing wrong with you voting against that no matter what (even if you vote for a guy that talks about sexual assault such babies when they’re grown).
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: If you believe abortion is murder no one will fault you for voting Republican. Like the Q stuff, if you actually think Dems are selling kids off for child slaves (or whatever Qs think) then yes that’s a good position to take based on your ideas on the subject. Agree on guns. It’s dumb. Dems aren’t taking guns. Republicans like making it an add. Dumb people fall for it (less educated people do lean R recently) What numbers do you find between Biden and Trump concerning the First 100 days? Like specific numbers. Theres no Maoist push by Dems. Dems if anything are leveraging capitalism to have a greater sway. Think of it this way. If there’s 100 people that will buy your product. 60 of them will line your idea. 40 of them will not. Who will you market to, the 60 people or the 40? “All time high of unaccompanied minors” https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-unaccompanied-children-border-custody-record-19k/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4i&_amp=1*n4yn7w*s_vid*ZGhYYXJPajNkN1ZSbnZJdjdxOFBRRDFkUkdBd2VTNFd6OXZxbkpfd0xTNGxzR1ZiVXN1T1U5WU5zbHJObzdoTw.. Agree to disagree on the Maoist woke authoritarian influence of a growing element of the Democratic Party. Edited May 17, 2021 by SCBills
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, B-Man said: You know the answer to that even if if you do not believe it. You do not have the liberty to kill a child. It is not just your body" so you’re saying your idea of Republican policy has an underlying fallacy, that individual liberty is always stopped by the liberties of others. Ill quote you since it’s so rare you give an actual opinion a quoting a random webpage “The God given, say nature given if you would rather, LIBERTY of the INDIVIDUAL.” Here you just admit that the liberty of the individual will coincide with the liberty of other individuals. In a society, the liberty of the individual doesn’t exist. There’s always implications and limits on ones liberty as not to impact another’s liberty. 8 minutes ago, SCBills said: “All time high of unaccompanied minors” https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-unaccompanied-children-border-custody-record-19k/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4i&_amp=1*n4yn7w*s_vid*ZGhYYXJPajNkN1ZSbnZJdjdxOFBRRDFkUkdBd2VTNFd6OXZxbkpfd0xTNGxzR1ZiVXN1T1U5WU5zbHJObzdoTw.. Agree to disagree on the Maoist woke authoritarian influence of a growing element of the Democratic Party. As a pro- life person wouldn’t you agree it’s best to put a child’s position in the best circumstances to succeed? Or are you reverting to pro-birth let them be born and then let them pull themselves up by the bootstraps? I don’t know if you’re a parent or not, but if you had a kid and had a chance to offer them a better life or maybe a life where they would live longer, wouldn’t you give do what you could to give it to them?
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: so you’re saying your idea of Republican policy has an underlying fallacy, that individual liberty is always stopped by the liberties of others. Ill quote you since it’s so rare you give an actual opinion a quoting a random webpage “The God given, say nature given if you would rather, LIBERTY of the INDIVIDUAL.” Here you just admit that the liberty of the individual will coincide with the liberty of other individuals. In a society, the liberty of the individual doesn’t exist. There’s always implications and limits on ones liberty as not to impact another’s liberty. As a pro- life person wouldn’t you agree it’s best to put a child’s position in the best circumstances to succeed? Or are you reverting to pro-birth let them be born and then let them pull themselves up by the bootstraps? I don’t know if you’re a parent or not, but if you had a kid and had a chance to offer them a better life or maybe a life where they would live longer, wouldn’t you give do what you could to give it to them? You seem to be arguing for straight up euthanasia. At what point do we try to protect a defenseless life? If we only deem life born into certain circumstance as worth saving - And this is all determined by quality of life, with no moral equivocate given to the actual humanity of life - then why don’t we allow parents to kill a six month old if circumstance changes and that child is no longer in a situation one would deem ideal? Or do you believe we should be able to kill that six month old? Edited May 17, 2021 by SCBills
Backintheday544 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, SCBills said: You seem to be arguing for straight up euthanasia. At what point do we try to protect a defenseless life? If we only deem life born into certain circumstance as worth saving - And this is all determined by quality of life, with no moral equivocate given to the actual humanity of life - then why don’t we allow parents to kill a six month old if circumstance changes and that child is no longer in a situation one was deem ideal? Or do believe we should be able to kill that six month old? No Im arguing let’s take care of the kids/people that actually are born over the unborn. If you can’t take care of those actually living then why care about if they’re born or not? And really we can make this issue moot by teaching things and promoting things like birth control in schools which has statistically proven to lower the birth rate. Yet the Republican Party has been against that for religious reasons. If they were really pro- life, then it should start with sex Ed. 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: Name one situation in life where ones liberty doesn’t infringe on another’s
SCBills Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: No Im arguing let’s take care of the kids/people that actually are born over the unborn. If you can’t take care of those actually living then why care about if they’re born or not? And really we can make this issue moot by teaching things and promoting things like birth control in schools which has statistically proven to lower the birth rate. Yet the Republican Party has been against that for religious reasons. If they were really pro- life, then it should start with sex Ed. Again, we have a philosophical difference on life. You believe there’s a difference between an unborn life vs a born life. I don’t. Agreed. I’m not against any of those preventative measures. 1
daz28 Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 Wait, politicians have positions? I just assumed now it's the opposite of what the other party would consider a "victory". 1
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