Athletic article on JP Losman

[NoHuddleKelly12]

34 minutes ago, cage said:

 

Its absolutely worth it.  Its the only subscription of any kind that I pay for.  The Bills writers Joe Buscaglia and Matt Fairburn do so many great stories and analysis.  Then John Vogl focuses on Sabres.  He's got tough assignment.  Also Tim Graham simply paints on a broader canvas.   He'll do Sabres stories and general Buffalo sports stories that are totally captivating.  

 

Buscaglia focuses heavily on analysis; post-game, draft, roster and such.  Fairburn does Bills analysis, but also these kinds of great stories.  One of the best ones he did was a feature on Ike Boettger.  It was mid-season, right after the Seahawks games, where the team just dominated.  The personal interest story seemed initially weird on the heels of that game, but he really brought it together well tying it to the game as it coincided w/ Boettger's first start.  Reaching beyond the Bills/Sabres, Graham did an outstanding story on ex-wrestler Lex Luger who went to Orchard Park HS and has fallen on some very hard times.  He also did a great story on Stevie Johnson.

 

All of its worth the $!

Thanks @cage, I just signed up based in no small part on your detailed recommendation, looks like the deal for $1/month vs 7.99/month was enough to reel me in this time 😁. 

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

Did you ever watch the his interviews when he was with the Bills?     I wouldn't exactly categorize someone who quotes Yoda as smart.   

Wrong you are.

[Buffarukus]

16 hours ago, Buftex said:

Really?

 

i agree. guy was a monster with the deep ball but inconsistent at the short stuff. i dont think the coaches ruined his accuracy on 5 yard hitch routes. 

 

if the coaches fig out how to run lee evans go routes successfully every single play, hed be in the hall of fame and have a collection of rings.

[Blank Stare]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

The best way to describe those lines was basically Jason Peters and four guys who weren't good enough to be journeymen (Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler Chris Villarrial in the last year of his career as he fell apart, and Terrance Pennington were the most frequent starters, though Tutan Reyes got six starts, as did Duke Preston. 

Make it stop! My god, you wonder how we ever won 9 games with Mularky or 7 seemingly every year with Jauron. This org was clueless back then. Night and day compared to now. 

[Rico]

JP along with Gary Marangi were my 2 biggest Bills QB disappointments. After 2.5 years of absolute garbage with the brain-dead POS statue, I was so excited to change to a mobile QB in 2005, damn shame it didn’t work out. In 2007, I was more than cool with it, but I was a little surprised he got such a quick hook for Edwards.

[stevewin]

I really like Fairburn - even when he was a beat reporter he always made an effort to find an angle and reach out to a variety of connected people for a story - instead of just re-hashing quotes from PCs which is what so many do.

 

That being said I was surrised he didn't have more actual commentary from Losman himsef - would have been interesting to hear more of his personal thoughts about his time in Buffalo.

[Albany,n.y.]

16 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I do think coaching makes a big difference, i think Allen flops if he is drafted by the jets. Allen didn't start well here but McDermott had the patience to stick with him when many here wanted him gone. 

 

 

JP's QB coach was Sam Wyche, one of the best in the business for a position coach.  If coaching made such a difference JP would be on the Wall of Fame.  

The only people who wanted Josh gone were the stat boys who don't know how to watch a game without a stat sheet.  

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, Rico said:

JP along with Gary Marangi were my 2 biggest Bills QB disappointments. After 2.5 years of absolute garbage with the brain-dead POS statue, I was so excited to change to a mobile QB in 2005, damn shame it didn’t work out. In 2007, I was more than cool with it, but I was a little surprised he got such a quick hook for Edwards.

Based on that article, there is zero reason it couldn’t have worked out differently for him with better coaching.  He’s clearly a student of the game - “all ball” - and had the tools to be great.  His floor, with proper coaching, should’ve been Jake Plummer.  Again, Ralph kept the Bills in Buffalo and for that we should be duly thankful.  But he was a real PoS.

 

2 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

JP's QB coach was Sam Wyche, one of the best in the business for a position coach.  If coaching made such a difference JP would be on the Wall of Fame.  

The only people who wanted Josh gone were the stat boys who don't know how to watch a game without a stat sheet.  

Wyche was well past his prime by then.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[Albany,n.y.]

6 hours ago, Rico said:

JP along with Gary Marangi were my 2 biggest Bills QB disappointments. After 2.5 years of absolute garbage with the brain-dead POS statue, I was so excited to change to a mobile QB in 2005, damn shame it didn’t work out. In 2007, I was more than cool with it, but I was a little surprised he got such a quick hook for Edwards.

When JP started in 2005 I predicted the Bills would win 12 games-woops!  

In 2017 when Tyrod was in a slump and people were calling for Peterman, I was calling him Nathan Marangi telling them to be careful what you wish for.  

6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Wyche was well past his prime by then.

Only as a quarterback, not as a QB coach.  He wasn't being asked to be a head coach and he was probably one of the best QB coaches in the NFL when he was JP's coach.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Albany,n.y.

[eball]

16 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I do think coaching makes a big difference, i think Allen flops if he is drafted by the jets. Allen didn't start well here but McDermott had the patience to stick with him when many here wanted him gone. 

 

 

 

What Bills fan “wanted Allen gone” after his rookie season?  No sane one.

 

As for Losman, I do plan to read the article and count me in the camp who believe the Bills’ coaching staff did him no favors.  He was a confident kid and it appears that instead of mentoring him the Bills felt they needed to “knock him down a peg” — hence Troy Vincent breaking his leg in practice.  I won’t go so far as to say his career would have been significantly different but he was dealt a bad hand being drafted by that dysfunctional organization.  He always came across as a really good dude and he completely embraced the city of Buffalo while he was here; I’m happy he has found a home and a calling.

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Really.

 

That's the way it's always seemed. Losman started slow, with the injury and being behind Bledsoe. Then rather than let Bledsoe stay and making JP play his way into the lineup, they got rid of Bledsoe, which turned a lot of players and fans against Losman, who was correctly being perceived as being handed the job without earning it. But it wasn't Losman who got rid of Bledsoe, it was the coaches.

 

Then he played really promisingly in 2006, improving a ton. He wasn't there yet, but he was really headed in the right direction. He had started developing a style, which was that he was a gunslinger, a guy who was really good at evading rushes, buying time and hitting guys off a scramble. He made too many mistakes, but had only thrown about 650 NFL passes. He was still young, learning and developing, and he'd always been a developmental prospect.

 

More, they put him behind terrible lines. The best way to describe those lines was basically Jason Peters and four guys who weren't good enough to be journeymen (Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler Chris Villarrial in the last year of his career as he fell apart, and Terrance Pennington were the most frequent starters, though Tutan Reyes got six starts, as did Duke Preston. 

 

He still improved and looked promising.

 

So they fired the OC and brought in a guy who decided to go directly against Losman's abilities. He was a scrambler, a gunslinger and a risk taker with a monster arm and a good connection with the fleet Lee Evans.

 

Instead of trying to smooth the rough edges off, they tried to turn him into a Brady-style, timing-route hitting guy throwing short passes. The new coaches, Fairchild in particular, made sure to avoid his strengths and get him to play as much as possible in his areas of weakness. 

 

He regressed and was never the same.

 

He was handled really badly here. 

 

It's impossible to know whether or not he'd have succeeded if he'd been handled well. But he absolutely was handled badly. They minimized his chances.

 

 

From the owner on down the chain of command the Bills were really bad back then and wasted repeated opportunities,  we made the jets look good, and that’s saying something...

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Really.

 

That's the way it's always seemed. Losman started slow, with the injury and being behind Bledsoe. Then rather than let Bledsoe stay and making JP play his way into the lineup, they got rid of Bledsoe, which turned a lot of players and fans against Losman, who was correctly being perceived as being handed the job without earning it. But it wasn't Losman who got rid of Bledsoe, it was the coaches.

 

Then he played really promisingly in 2006, improving a ton. He wasn't there yet, but he was really headed in the right direction. He had started developing a style, which was that he was a gunslinger, a guy who was really good at evading rushes, buying time and hitting guys off a scramble. He made too many mistakes, but had only thrown about 650 NFL passes. He was still young, learning and developing, and he'd always been a developmental prospect.

 

More, they put him behind terrible lines. The best way to describe those lines was basically Jason Peters and four guys who weren't good enough to be journeymen (Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler Chris Villarrial in the last year of his career as he fell apart, and Terrance Pennington were the most frequent starters, though Tutan Reyes got six starts, as did Duke Preston. 

 

He still improved and looked promising.

 

So they fired the OC and brought in a guy who decided to go directly against Losman's abilities. He was a scrambler, a gunslinger and a risk taker with a monster arm and a good connection with the fleet Lee Evans.

 

Instead of trying to smooth the rough edges off, they tried to turn him into a Brady-style, timing-route hitting guy throwing short passes. The new coaches, Fairchild in particular, made sure to avoid his strengths and get him to play as much as possible in his areas of weakness. 

 

He regressed and was never the same.

 

He was handled really badly here. 

 

It's impossible to know whether or not he'd have succeeded if he'd been handled well. But he absolutely was handled badly. They minimized his chances.

 

 

 

He was a "scrambler" and a "Gunslinger" because he didn't know  the Offense, couldn't read a Defense, didn't know were his other receivers were.

 

He delivered 1 full season as starter in his first 5 years.  That was his "promising" 2006 season, where despite his scrambling, he took a massive 47 sacks on only 429 drop-backs. It was his only pro season where he threw for more TDs than INTs (2 pick 6's).  He fumbled 13 times.  Only 7.1 YPA and 35 pass plays of 20+ yards in 429 attempts with that big arm.   And that was as good as he would ever get in this league.  

 

Despite heroic attempts in this thread to boldly re-write history, this kid was an awful NFL QB.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[Bill from NYC]

11 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I was at that game. It was fun! Melvin Fowler’s parents grabbed me as I was hanging out cheering as the players left the field, and brought me down to meet Melvin hang out with the players and their friends and family before they got on their bus. Such a cool experience. 

Wow, Melvin Fowler!!!

 

When he took the field he really looked like a talented pro who could play his position. That is why it took me 2 or 3 games to realize that he was a simply horrible center. I mean terrible at run and pass blocking.

 

I am however happy to hear that he was a nice guy.

[buffaloboyinATL]

8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Wow, Melvin Fowler!!!

 

When he took the field he really looked like a talented pro who could play his position. That is why it took me 2 or 3 games to realize that he was a simply horrible center. I mean terrible at run and pass blocking.

 

I am however happy to hear that he was a nice guy.

His parents were awesome too! They grabbed me and a couple of other fans and told security we were with them. They even made sure I had a pen to get autographs if I wanted them. I got about 20 signatures on my Bills visor. Such an awesome memory. My buddies had already gone to the car to drink and stadium security wouldn’t let them back in to join me. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Based on that article, there is zero reason it couldn’t have worked out differently for him with better coaching.  He’s clearly a student of the game - “all ball” - and had the tools to be great.  His floor, with proper coaching, should’ve been Jake Plummer.  Again, Ralph kept the Bills in Buffalo and for that we should be duly thankful.  But he was a real PoS.

 

Wyche was well past his prime by then.

Yup, living on reputation would be a good way to put it. That was the way of things at OBD in those days, for the most part all administrative functions, from ownership to position coaches were maned by buffoons, again for the most part, it’s no wonder the team had so little success. The marked contrast to what is going on now at OBD has been a galactic shift in the level of intelligence of those doing those jobs. It’s so very nice to have smart people running the show.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Don Otreply

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Based on that article, there is zero reason it couldn’t have worked out differently for him with better coaching.  He’s clearly a student of the game - “all ball” - and had the tools to be great.  His floor, with proper coaching, should’ve been Jake Plummer.  Again, Ralph kept the Bills in Buffalo and for that we should be duly thankful.  But he was a real PoS.

 

I agree with the first part. Regarding Ralph: he wasn't a great owner, but he was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a PoS.

[chongli]

Losman's first-ever TD pass was to Jason Peters in 2005:

 

 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

I agree with the first part. Regarding Ralph: he wasn't a great owner, but he was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a PoS.

Maybe not as a person, but he certainly was a PoS of an owner.

[chongli]

19 hours ago, jkeerie said:

As George Bernard Shaw said:  "Those who can do, those who cannot teach."

 

Reminds me of a good adage: "you haven't taught until the student has learned".

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

When JP started in 2015 I predicted the Bills would win 12 games-woops!  

 

Yeah, in 2005, in anticipation of a glorious Bills season, I subscribed to Sunday Ticket for the first time ever, and got DirecTV instead of cable. The Bills started 1-0, but it was all downhill after that. I never subscribed to Sunday Ticket again, lol.

[Arm of Harm]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Really.

 

That's the way it's always seemed. Losman started slow, with the injury and being behind Bledsoe. Then rather than let Bledsoe stay and making JP play his way into the lineup, they got rid of Bledsoe, which turned a lot of players and fans against Losman, who was correctly being perceived as being handed the job without earning it. But it wasn't Losman who got rid of Bledsoe, it was the coaches.

 

Then he played really promisingly in 2006, improving a ton. He wasn't there yet, but he was really headed in the right direction. He had started developing a style, which was that he was a gunslinger, a guy who was really good at evading rushes, buying time and hitting guys off a scramble. He made too many mistakes, but had only thrown about 650 NFL passes. He was still young, learning and developing, and he'd always been a developmental prospect.

 

More, they put him behind terrible lines. The best way to describe those lines was basically Jason Peters and four guys who weren't good enough to be journeymen (Mike Gandy, Melvin Fowler Chris Villarrial in the last year of his career as he fell apart, and Terrance Pennington were the most frequent starters, though Tutan Reyes got six starts, as did Duke Preston. 

 

He still improved and looked promising.

 

So they fired the OC and brought in a guy who decided to go directly against Losman's abilities. He was a scrambler, a gunslinger and a risk taker with a monster arm and a good connection with the fleet Lee Evans.

 

Instead of trying to smooth the rough edges off, they tried to turn him into a Brady-style, timing-route hitting guy throwing short passes. The new coaches, Fairchild in particular, made sure to avoid his strengths and get him to play as much as possible in his areas of weakness. 

 

He regressed and was never the same.

 

He was handled really badly here. 

 

It's impossible to know whether or not he'd have succeeded if he'd been handled well. But he absolutely was handled badly. They minimized his chances.

 

 

 

I read that during Losman's success in 2006, the coaches had simplified the offense, thereby improving Losman's success. If the goal was to give Losman his best chance of success, they should never have fired their offensive coordinator.

 

I'd also point out this: during Drew Bledsoe's last years with the Patriots, that team began moving away from his strengths (such as the deep ball) and towards things he didn't do as well (short passes to moving targets). The Patriots had a vision of the offense as they wanted it, and Bledsoe was not a great fit for that vision. Then he got hurt, and a different quarterback came in and delivered on that vision.

 

In 2007, the Bills did to Losman the exact same thing the Patriots had done to Bledsoe. They implemented an offense predicated on short passes, which as you pointed out was not a fit for what Losman did well. That was also the year they'd drafted Trent Edwards, and it's entirely possible the short passing offense was implemented in an effort to play to Edwards' strengths.

 

Suppose the Bills hadn't fired their offensive coordinator from 2006, suppose they hadn't drafted Trent Edwards, and suppose they'd left in place the offensive scheme they'd used in the second half of the 2006 season. What would Losman's ceiling have been? The comparison quarterback which comes to mind is Tyrod Taylor. Both guys are running quarterbacks with strong arms, neither are good at West Coast offense type throws, neither are good at processing information quickly. I'll grant there are differences: Losman was better at long bombs to Lee Evans than Tyrod would have been; Tyrod is better at avoiding turnovers than Losman. But those two quarterbacks were broadly similar.

 

Losman and Tyrod fell between two stools. Neither was good enough at passing to appeal to an offensive coordinator who wanted a traditional pocket passer. While both QBs were fast, neither was as fast as Lamar Jackson. A guy like Greg Roman is never going to choose Losman-type speed or Tyrod-type speed if he can get Lamar Jackson-type speed.