Just woke up from a nightmare.,,,,the Bills drafted Jason Oweh

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

15 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Disagree strongly!  With all of his off the chart measurables and with all the action he saw he had zero, nil, zilch...not one single sack!  This is a serious legit concern. Not lazy in the least. And, on top of that, you saw “a play”?  Now that’s a lazy take!

Sacks don’t matter as much as you think. They’re similar to Ints for CBS. 
 

He had plenty of pressures, hurries and QB hits. Not to mention his run stopping was good as well. 
 

I was clearly talking  about “a play” as a single example of when a DE can do everything right and not get the sack. 

 

Maybe that wasn’t as clear to you as it was to everyone else. 

[gobills404]

21 play cut up

 

[billsfan89]

Would love to see this pick at 30. 30 is where you take a chance on a freak athlete and guys with exceptional athletic ability (Josh, Edumonds and Oliver) seem to be right up the team's alley. I think short term he can have a nice impact rolling off of the bench in situations and long term has DE1 "war daddy" potential. Fill out other depth and roster needs like CT, NT and OT in round 2-5. Get a freak edge rusher at 30 and take a chance.

[Mojo44]

20 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

Sacks don’t matter as much as you think. They’re similar to Ints for CBS. 
 

He had plenty of pressures, hurries and QB hits. Not to mention his run stopping was good as well. 
 

I was clearly talking  about “a play” as a single example of when a DE can do everything right and not get the sack. 

 

Maybe that wasn’t as clear to you as it was to everyone else. 

I absolutely understood your take on the one play. Just based on what you said, it’s a lazy take. He had one good play. By itself it has no predictive value. I guess that happened on every single time he rushed the passer. Not likely.

 

I agree that quarterback sacks by itself he’s not the only statistic you look at for edge rusher. But it deserves repeating because I think you missed my point, for all of that talent and all of the games he played he didn’t have one. Sorry, that is an area of serious concern. Disagree if you like. But I think that’s pretty clear.

 

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Phillips and Oweh both put up ridiculous numbers but they're not without issues. Oweh recorded 0 sacks last season and Phillips has injury/motivation concerns. Maybe the best cb is the safest route?....Maybe Basham in the 2nd?

For sure, both have major red flags mixed with elite traits.  Best CB would be the safest route imo.  If Newsome and Farley are off the board I’d be fine taking Tyson Campbell with our first pick. I would prefer to trade down and get Campbell, but if he’s the pick @30, so be it. I think he could be a great fit opposite Tre for the next 4-5 years.  
 

WR would also be low risk imo.  Bateman, Marshall or even Moore be crucial players for us and all pretty low risk imo.  

Interesting.  Voting is 28-28-68 so far.  

[HappyDays]

Oweh is the type of prospect they have to find out who he is as a person. Allen was similarly an elite physical talent without college stats to show for it, but it turned out he has a relentless motivation to be great. If you find out Oweh has anywhere close to that kind of motivation you draft him at 30 no questions asked. Whereas if you find out he doesn't take practice seriously or doesn't love the game he is a late 2nd round flier. I can't say I definitely would love the pick but if the Bills take him it's because they know his character is worth the risk.

[Freddie's Dead]

Bills are too close to the Super Bowl to be rolling the dice on anyone.  No more McGahees or Maybins allowed.  Must be ready to play day 1.

[ExWNYer]

I voted 'Meh'. I don't get pissed because, ultimately, I (all of us) have no say in and have no control over what the team does or doesn't do. 'Disappointed' would probably better describe it for me but once the pick is made, I am rooting like hell for the player to be a successful Buffalo Bill regardless of whether or not I liked or agreed with the organization's decision. A nightmare to me is Bon Jovi or T-rump buying the team.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

9 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

I absolutely understood your take on the one play. Just based on what you said, it’s a lazy take. He had one good play. By itself it has no predictive value. I guess that happened on every single time he rushed the passer. Not likely.

 

I agree that quarterback sacks by itself he’s not the only statistic you look at for edge rusher. But it deserves repeating because I think you missed my point, for all of that talent and all of the games he played he didn’t have one. Sorry, that is an area of serious concern. Disagree if you like. But I think that’s pretty clear.

 

So you claim to understand why I said what I said then immediately mischaracterize it for a second time? You’re the only lazy one in this conversation. 
 

looking at the stat line and seeing zero sacks then coming here and saying you’re concerned about it, is LAZY. That’s all you’ve done other than twist my words about the example I gave to show it’s possible to have a great play against a great opponent not show up on the stat sheet at all. 
 

 

[Mojo44]

5 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

So you claim to understand why I said what I said then immediately mischaracterize it for a second time? You’re the only lazy one in this conversation. 
 

looking at the stat line and seeing zero sacks then coming here and saying you’re concerned about it, is LAZY. That’s all you’ve done other than twist my words about the example I gave to show it’s possible to have a great play against a great opponent not show up on the stat sheet at all. 
 

 

Look, I’m not trying to be snarky here. I will say it again. I absolutely get your point. But in the context of an absolute lack of significant production from this player, seeing him maybe beat a good offense of tackle on a single play doesn’t say much. What you don’t seem to understand is I disagree with you that that is a significant take. Why can’t you see that instead of keep saying that I’m not getting your point. I GET IT.  I just don’t think it’s a good point. I’m sure Aaron Maybin had some good plays like that too at Penn State.

And for an edge rusher I think you overly devalue his sack total. He had none whatsoever! I don’t know about you, but production on the field is more important to me than how many “close calls“ he had. And I will bet you dollars to donuts this is how NFL scouts look at it. I would not touch him in the first round. Maybe in the second. Better in the third. But not in the first.

 

I will add this one qualifying remark. If the Bills think he is worth taking at 30 I will keep an open mind and trust the process. But I doubt this will happen

 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Look, I’m not trying to be snarky here. I will say it again. I absolutely get your point. But in the context of an absolute lack of significant production from this player, seeing him maybe beat a good offense of tackle on a single play doesn’t say much. What you don’t seem to understand is I disagree with you that that is a significant take. Why can’t you see that instead of keep saying that I’m not getting your point. I GET IT.  I just don’t think it’s a good point. I’m sure Aaron Maybin had some good plays like that too at Penn State.

And for an edge rusher I think you overly devalue his sack total. He had none whatsoever! I don’t know about you, but production on the field is more important to me than how many “close calls“ he had. And I will bet you dollars to donuts this is how NFL scouts look at it. I would not touch him in the first round. Maybe in the second. Better in the third. But not in the first.

 

I will add this one qualifying remark. If the Bills think he is worth taking at 30 I will keep an open mind and trust the process. But I doubt this will happen

 

No you still don’t get it. You didn’t at first, which is fine, so I clarified that I didn’t mean ONE play proves anything significant. 
 

Then you still insisted that you understand by saying “Did that happen on every play? I doubt it?” Which is you somehow misunderstanding in a different way. 
 

So now you’ve misunderstood twice, but here you are tripling down on your lazy take. 
 

Here’s the bottom line: You looked at the stats and saw a zero for sacks and moved on. That’s fine since you don’t work as a scout, but people that are paid to look at the tape have him as a 1st round talent based on the tape.
 

Another DE Gregory Rousseau had 15.5 sacks in 2019 then opted out. He’s ranked below Oweh at this point by most scouts because they aren’t being lazy and actually looked at both players’ tape. Oweh has issues that are seemingly easier to fix than Rousseau. 
 

since you’re so stuck on the one play thing. Why not watch some more plays. This was posted earlier in the thread:

 

https://twitter.com/i/events/1383095364287401987?s=20

 

[The Jokeman]

35 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Would love to see this pick at 30. 30 is where you take a chance on a freak athlete and guys with exceptional athletic ability (Josh, Edumonds and Oliver) seem to be right up the team's alley. I think short term he can have a nice impact rolling off of the bench in situations and long term has DE1 "war daddy" potential. Fill out other depth and roster needs like CT, NT and OT in round 2-5. Get a freak edge rusher at 30 and take a chance.

Beane mentioned in his presser were drafting for the future so a DE makes sense with Addison and Hughes on their last year. Yet this kid scares me as that 40 is great but lack of great production in three seasons is. Personally I think a quality CB should be there at 30 and fills a need. 

[Mojo44]

18 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

No you still don’t get it. You didn’t at first, which is fine, so I clarified that I didn’t mean ONE play proves anything significant. 
 

Then you still insisted that you understand by saying “Did that happen on every play? I doubt it?” Which is you somehow misunderstanding in a different way. 
 

So now you’ve misunderstood twice, but here you are tripling down on your lazy take. 
 

Here’s the bottom line: You looked at the stats and saw a zero for sacks and moved on. That’s fine since you don’t work as a scout, but people that are paid to look at the tape have him as a 1st round talent based on the tape.
 

Another DE Gregory Rousseau had 15.5 sacks in 2019 then opted out. He’s ranked below Oweh at this point by most scouts because they aren’t being lazy and actually looked at both players’ tape. Oweh has issues that are seemingly easier to fix than Rousseau. 
 

since you’re so stuck on the one play thing. Why not watch some more plays. This was posted earlier in the thread:

 

https://twitter.com/i/events/1383095364287401987?s=20

 

 

Wow! I mean just wow! One of the most frustrating things in these discussions is when somebody makes a certain point. And if someone else disagrees with it based on the merits of the point that person keeps on saying you don’t get my point. That is a very sloppy and, quite frankly, defensive style of debating something.

 

I’ve read all the posts on this thread. I really don’t care how some rate him.  Others don’t have him in their top five edge rushers. When I evaluate a player I prefer as the most important factor is actual production on the field. Absent such production, as in this case, is a big red flag for me. He could be the greatest athlete in the world but it doesn’t matter if he can’t play football very well.

 

I absolutely get your point and did from the beginning. Can you just understand that I disagree strongly with it?  I actually respect your point even though I disagree with it. But stop saying I don’t get it. You can have the last word. Have a good evening.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Mojo44 said:

Disagree strongly!  With all of his off the chart measurables and with all the action he saw he had zero, nil, zilch...not one single sack!  This is a serious legit concern. Not lazy in the least. And, on top of that, you saw “a play”?  Now that’s a lazy take!

meh, I think he probably saw more than one play. 
 

that said, I agree that zero is a big concern. Especially at the college level. He should have had plenty of “man amongst boys” days ala a guy like maybin at the very least.

[stinky finger]

12 hours ago, H2o said:

I'd be pissed. For all of the athletic traits he had zero sacks. I mean ZERO sacks in 7 games. He only has 7 sacks in 3 years at Penn St. He's only had 5 sacks total over the last 2 years and 18 games played. He also only had 13.5 tfl's in his 3 years/20 total games. I said it in another thread, if we take a Penn St. DE I would rather it be Shaka Toney who has actually produced on the field. Oweh is probably best suited as a 3-4 OLB where he can use that athleticism as a stand up rusher and roaming the flats in Zone coverage. 

 

I needed to see this.

 

I just changed my vote. I'll be rip **** if we draft him. 

 

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

8 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Beane mentioned in his presser were drafting for the future so a DE makes sense with Addison and Hughes on their last year. Yet this kid scares me as that 40 is great but lack of great production in three seasons is. Personally I think a quality CB should be there at 30 and fills a need. 

I like the idea of taking a freak athlete at DE, I have seen in recent years a lot of guys like JPP and Ziggy Ansah not be the most productive in college but get drafted because of their athletic profiles and go on to have good pro careers. So overall I am not too opposed to drafting a player on athletic profile. I do think corner wouldn’t be a bad place to go either. I just like the high ceiling you can get possibly at pick 30.

[OldTimer1960]

Rashan Gary was a highly athletic, not-as-productive-as-he-should be prospect in 2019.  He didn't do much in 2019, but started coming on in 2020.  Is there a similarity with Oweh and Gary?

 

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-football-rashan-gary-jim-harbaugh-green-bay-packers-wolverines