*Brandon Beane Draft Presser LIVE @ 1:00 PM EST, 4/20/21*

[stinky finger]

15 hours ago, The Governor said:

So who would that be? Zaven Collins or that Nick kid, or someone in the 2nd round?

 

‘Ello Guvna!

 

Hard to say. I’d love to know what Beane is thinking re: Edmunds. 

 

Collins and Bolton are 2 different animals, as my untrained eyes see them. 

 

Collins 6’4” and reportedly 270!! Seems as though he might come off the edge standing up.

 

Bolton much smaller at 6’ 225. 

 

In my mind, Collins wouldn’t be a threat to Edmunds so much as Bolton who is more a Mike.

 

Drafting Bolton might lend more insight to the future of Tremaine. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stinky finger]

14 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I'm glad there's other people that think this as well. I brought this topic up months ago and got some heat, its not that I'm a edmunds hater I just get the feeling paying edmunds big money isn't something beane will feel good about, especially after his performance this year.

 

Up until recently, I’ve alwsys thought it was a firegone conclusion that TE was going to be re-upped. 

 

Now? I’m teetering. The landscape for our cap is going to change substantially. Committing what it’s going to take contractually gives me pause. 

 

End of the day, I trust Beane. 

[Alphadawg7]

Beane's Cliff Notes:

 

We could trade up, we could trade down, or stay put at 30 where any position outside of QB, K, or Punter are on the table with the 30th pick as long as they are the BPA on his board.  

 

So in other words...DUH everything is on the table 🤣

 

All kidding aside, my thoughts:  The only RB I think he would take at 30 is Etienne.  There are guys he think could slide into the 20's he might be willing to go get for the right price.  And, he sees the 5th year option that comes with the 30th pick as increasing the value for a team to trade up and anticipates offers to be on the table when they approach their pick, assuming we haven't ourselves already traded up.  

 

Call me crazy, but I still think a trade back with the Eagles at 37 still makes a lot of sense where the trade package includes Ertz if Beane doesn't covet someone when on the clock at 30.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[BuffaloRebound]

Wouldn’t shock me if Edmunds is traded on draft day.  A team like Jax might give up a high 2nd rounder for Edmunds instead of drafting a Line Backer.  They have plenty of cap space and 5 picks in the top 65.  Hard to incorporate that many highly drafted rookies.  If Bills draft a LB at pick 30, I think Edmunds is gone. 

[TBBills]

The only thing i dont really see is Beane trading back. Didn't last year he said it would be hard to make this roster. I am thinking the same goes for this year and he will be moving up either in the first or get higher-up in the second. 

 

Also who knows the eagles may fold and the Bills give them a 5th for Ertz.

[B-Man]

 

 

All the lower round guys I want (Tremble, Deablo, Atwell, Rumph) are all going in the fourth round of the mocks.

 

Do something Beane !

 

LOL.

[section122]

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Call me crazy, but I still think a trade back with the Eagles at 37 still makes a lot of sense where the trade package includes Ertz if Beane doesn't covet someone when on the clock at 30.  

 

You are crazy lol.  The Bills don't have the money to pay Ertz 8 million per year and he isn't worth the 3rd round value this trade implies.  Ertz will be traded for a 5th or later during the draft, cut the day after the draft, or on the Eagles next year.

 

I think the Bills would love Ertz just not at his current price tag.

[WideNine]

9 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Really - Bills fans would be looking at a 2x ProBowl player on another team and saying this guys sucks?

 

My guess is Bills fans would look quickly at the stats, the ProBowls, his age, his measurables and they would be drooling for Beane to find a way to get him in here.

 

Heck they drooled for guys like Hassan Reddick that basically did nothing for multiple years and finally in his contract year put double digit sack numbers.  Prior to that his sacks were on par with Edmunds and he is an OLB.  His tackles were significantly less and he was a fraction of the player Edmunds is.

 

My guess is people say Edmunds sucks because they want a huge run stuffing MLB and the Bills defense doesn’t set up that way - so Edmunds is the blame.

 

He is not perfect and he makes mistakes, but there is a far more likely chance that we downgrade in replacing him than most people think.

 

Edmunds has struggled in his Bills MLB role specifically giving up yards and missing tackles against the run and sweeps. The MLB has to be able to play the run, so I don't think that is an optional thing in our defense even in a pass-heavy league. In passes defended he had a subpar year last year as well.

 

An argument can be made last year that the DL play in front of him was not the best - I acknowledge that.

 

I do think he is a good football player, but I still believe that at 6' 5" he is not a good fit for MLB and never was. Kuechly who is often mentioned as the archetypical MLB that McDermott would prize for his defense was tall for the position at 6' 3", he was a college OLB that Carolina converted to MLB and he blossomed in that role, but he was also a rare talent at LB who was great in coverage and stout against the run. In 2018 he posted 20 tackles for a loss - that is insane

 

I still think OLB was Edmunds more natural fit given his size, build, and range and that he would have excelled in that roll, there is no need to exaggerate the critique some fans have of his game. I do think Edmunds is uber-athletic and can ball, but in his case I feel perhaps the Bills are forcing him to fit a system that was successful because once upon a time in Carolina they had a very rare talent at MLB vs adapting our defensive system more to fit Edmunds' unique skills.

 

It could very well turn out that if Edmunds were released another team would use him in a better way. Against Baltimore he was arguably the best defender on the field. Not sure if it was the scheme they came up with in that game or if his reads and assignments were easier to digest, but he was decisive and was sideline to sideline making plays and he bottled up Lamar really well. 

 

I am not mad if anyone disagrees with me. I just want to see the Bills play well and their defense come up with more 3 and out stops. I also want the Bills to be able to sign and keep a great core they can continue to build around for years so they have to invest in players wisely. It is in Beane's hands and our opinions about his play wont factor into his decisions.

 

The next couple years with contracts maturing are likely going to have more than a few roster moves that will keep TBD actively arguing the merits of each move.

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by WideNine

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

 

You are crazy lol.  The Bills don't have the money to pay Ertz 8 million per year and he isn't worth the 3rd round value this trade implies.  Ertz will be traded for a 5th or later during the draft, cut the day after the draft, or on the Eagles next year.

 

I think the Bills would love Ertz just not at his current price tag.

 

One, if we trade for Ertz it would only be if we reworked his deal.  Two, I said the package would include Ertz, not necessarily be just Ertz. They could throw in a late round pick to lower the cost...

 

But lets also look at that word "cost"...we are literally talking about 7 draft slots lower.  It doesn't mean we gave up a real third round pick, its literally moving back 7 spots and I am sure Beane would only do so if they were confident there are guys who will be there 7 spots later they would be happy with too.

 

So I have seen this "3rd round" pick cost over and over again when I suggest this, but its not true in that sense.  Thats a theoretical value, the real trade is moving down simply 7 spots.  Thats it...its not like we actually are giving up a 3rd round pick.  

[Rochesterfan]

43 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Edmunds has struggled in his Bills MLB role specifically giving up yards and missing tackles against the run and sweeps. The MLB has to be able to play the run, so I don't think that is an optional thing in our defense even in a pass-heavy league. In passes defended he had a subpar year last year as well.

 

An argument can be made last year that the DL play in front of him was not the best - I acknowledge that.

 

I do think he is a good football player, but I still believe that at 6' 5" he is not a good fit for MLB and never was. Kuechly who is often mentioned as the archetypical MLB that McDermott would prize for his defense was tall for the position at 6' 3", he was a college OLB that Carolina converted to MLB and he blossomed in that role, but he was also a rare talent at LB who was great in coverage and stout against the run. In 2018 he posted 20 tackles for a loss - that is insane

 

I still think OLB was Edmunds more natural fit given his size, build, and range and that he would have excelled in that roll, there is no need to exaggerate the critique some fans have of his game. I do think Edmunds is uber-athletic and can ball, but in his case I feel perhaps the Bills are forcing him to fit a system that was successful because once upon a time in Carolina they had a very rare talent at MLB vs adapting our defensive system more to fit Edmunds' unique skills.

 

It could very well turn out that if Edmunds were released another team would use him in a better way. Against Baltimore he was arguably the best defender on the field. Not sure if it was the scheme they came up with in that game or if his reads and assignments were easier to digest, but he was decisive and was sideline to sideline making plays and he bottled up Lamar really well. Heck, the few times I have seen them use him off the edge on a rare blitz I was blown away by his bend and speed getting into the backfield... but those occasions have been really rare as their preference has been to have him roaming the middle of the field.

 

I am not mad if anyone disagrees with me. I just want to see the Bills play well and their defense come up with more 3 and out stops. I also want the Bills to be able to sign and keep a great core they can continue to build around for years so they have to invest in players wisely. It is in Beane's hands and our opinions about his play wont factor into his decisions.

 

The next couple years with contracts maturing are likely going to have more than a few roster moves that will keep TBD actively arguing the merits of each move.

 

 

 

 

I agree his size makes it difficult to shed blockers and get into position to make tackles.  I just think - especially in today’s NFL - the Bills are not really worried about the LBs being run stoppers.  They just aren’t.  The proof is in the scheme - 90+% of the time they are in nickle and have just Edmunds and Milano as LBs.  Milano is really a glorified safety - so size and personnel wise - they just do not respect the running game as a viable threat.
 

The scheme seems to be very DL driven to sop the run - as they ask the DEs to contain a lot and do not have the DTs shooting gaps.  The LBs are there for passing presence and to clean up.  The Bills are not playing an aggressive attacking defense and people should not expect the MLB to be aggressive and attacking in this style.

 

The Bills defensive plans for the last 4 years are bend - don’t break.  Keep things in front and force check downs, short passes, and runs and make teams move down the field in long drives.  They will make a mistake and then you can attack in certain situations like 3 rd and long.

 

I think fans conflate his play with what the team concept is.  They want him attacking, but the team wants him thinking pass first.  Around the league - he seems to garner respect for his play, but there are times where both he and the defense are to passive and that allows gameplans to focus on moving him or waiting.  If you watch things like the KC game - he is in position o defend specific passing windows and the Chiefs just wait and hit secondary windows.  We watched Josh do it all year to other teams, but ignore it from ours.

 

 

[section122]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

One, if we trade for Ertz it would only be if we reworked his deal.  Two, I said the package would include Ertz, not necessarily be just Ertz. They could throw in a late round pick to lower the cost...

 

But lets also look at that word "cost"...we are literally talking about 7 draft slots lower.  It doesn't mean we gave up a real third round pick, its literally moving back 7 spots and I am sure Beane would only do so if they were confident there are guys who will be there 7 spots later they would be happy with too.

 

So I have seen this "3rd round" pick cost over and over again when I suggest this, but its not true in that sense.  Thats a theoretical value, the real trade is moving down simply 7 spots.  Thats it...its not like we actually are giving up a 3rd round pick.  

 

You asked me to call you crazy so I did that's all 🙂

 

On a serious note though yes it is only 7 spots but it is the difference of a 3rd rounder by the trade chart.  You are giving up the 5th year option and need to have 7 guys you are comfortable with to make that move imo.

 

Going from pick 10 to pick 17 isn't just 7 spots.  If it was later in the draft I would agree with you but that high up in the draft that is more valuable than Zach Ertz imo.  Zach Ertz of 2 years ago I wouldn't disagree at all and I am not totally against the idea as you said if he reworks the deal.  That would be a must and I don't know that all of that can come together on the fly with the time constraints of the draft.

 

It may already be agreed upon in principle if the Eagles player is there and just needs to be executed but I don't know if I buy that.  I really like Ertz as a player but am concerned after what we saw last year.  Is that who he is now or was that just a down year?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Wouldn’t shock me if Edmunds is traded on draft day.  A team like Jax might give up a high 2nd rounder for Edmunds instead of drafting a Line Backer.  They have plenty of cap space and 5 picks in the top 65.  Hard to incorporate that many highly drafted rookies.  If Bills draft a LB at pick 30, I think Edmunds is gone. 

 

LOL No

 

Would totally shock me.

 

Listen to Matekavich talk about Edmunds on Rico Report.

 

TBD doesn't like him, the cap sitch makes it no longer a slam-dunk that the Bills pick up his fully-guaranteed 5th year option, but it's a far cry from "not sure we're gonna pay him $12.7M guaranteed in a tight cap year" to "sure, we'll gonna bet the season we can replace this guy, his leadership, and his years of experience in our defensive system with some 2nd round rook".

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

LOL No

 

Would totally shock me.

 

Listen to Matekavich talk about Edmunds on Rico Report.

 

[ColoradoBills]

33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

One, if we trade for Ertz it would only be if we reworked his deal.  Two, I said the package would include Ertz, not necessarily be just Ertz. They could throw in a late round pick to lower the cost...

 

But lets also look at that word "cost"...we are literally talking about 7 draft slots lower.  It doesn't mean we gave up a real third round pick, its literally moving back 7 spots and I am sure Beane would only do so if they were confident there are guys who will be there 7 spots later they would be happy with too.

 

So I have seen this "3rd round" pick cost over and over again when I suggest this, but its not true in that sense.  Thats a theoretical value, the real trade is moving down simply 7 spots.  Thats it...its not like we actually are giving up a 3rd round pick.  

 

My question is how do you do that on "draft night".  If the Eagles make the trade how do the Bills ensure that Ertz renegotiates?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I know you didn't find it and listen. 

 

Context matters, and comparing what one teammate says about another to a used car salesman is content-free Idiocracy at its finest.

 

Here, let's put back some content, and see if you can find a reasonable football-relevant comment to make:

[in response to "wouldn't shock me if Edmunds gets traded on draft day for a high 2nd round pick we use to take a LB"]: 

"LOL, No.  Would totally shock me.

 

TBD doesn't like him, the cap sitch makes it no longer a slam-dunk that the Bills pick up his fully-guaranteed 5th year option, but it's a far cry from "not sure we're gonna pay him $12.7M guaranteed in a tight cap year" to "sure, we'll gonna bet the season we can replace this guy, his leadership, and his years of experience in our defensive system with some 2nd round rook"."

 

SMDH

[YoloinOhio]

Regarding Edmunds, the facts of the situation are that picking up both 5th year options in the same year is a 35 mill, inflexible cap hit. The reality of the salary cap being unknown next year with the tv deal not taking effect until 2023 makes it almost impossible to pick up both. Most teams don’t have two 5th year options come due in the same year as it’s pretty rare to draft twice in the first. Yay for hitting on both and it being a problem. 
 

I took nothing from the presser that Beane doesn’t see Edmunds as a Bill long-term. But he also knows the realities of the above and the other guy is the franchise QB. I don’t think his option will be picked up but it’s not because he’s not in their plans I think an extension for Edmunds is in play if he has a good season where the terms are more flexible toward the 2022 cap than the 5th yr option. If he doesn’t have a good season, well, that’s another story but they certainly seem to like him and he’s still probably younger than some of the LBs in this draft. 

[WideNine]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I agree his size makes it difficult to shed blockers and get into position to make tackles.  I just think - especially in today’s NFL - the Bills are not really worried about the LBs being run stoppers.  They just aren’t.  The proof is in the scheme - 90+% of the time they are in nickle and have just Edmunds and Milano as LBs.  Milano is really a glorified safety - so size and personnel wise - they just do not respect the running game as a viable threat.
 

The scheme seems to be very DL driven to sop the run - as they ask the DEs to contain a lot and do not have the DTs shooting gaps.  The LBs are there for passing presence and to clean up.  The Bills are not playing an aggressive attacking defense and people should not expect the MLB to be aggressive and attacking in this style.

 

The Bills defensive plans for the last 4 years are bend - don’t break.  Keep things in front and force check downs, short passes, and runs and make teams move down the field in long drives.  They will make a mistake and then you can attack in certain situations like 3 rd and long.

 

I think fans conflate his play with what the team concept is.  They want him attacking, but the team wants him thinking pass first.  Around the league - he seems to garner respect for his play, but there are times where both he and the defense are to passive and that allows gameplans to focus on moving him or waiting.  If you watch things like the KC game - he is in position o defend specific passing windows and the Chiefs just wait and hit secondary windows.  We watched Josh do it all year to other teams, but ignore it from ours.

 

 

 

 

Many of us have participated in the Great Edmunds debate OP here on the Wall, but I just found an article that seemed to capture all the facets and concerns that some folks have as well as giving a nod to the accolades - it is a good read.

 

https://coldfrontreport.com/tremaine-edmunds-the-man-or-the-myth/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I know you didn't find it and listen. 

 

Context matters, and comparing what one teammate says about another to a used car salesman is content-free Idiocracy at its finest.

 

Here, let's put back some content, and see if you can find a reasonable football-relevant comment to make:

[in response to "wouldn't shock me if Edmunds gets traded on draft day for a high 2nd round pick we use to take a LB"]: 

"LOL, No.  Would totally shock me.

 

TBD doesn't like him, the cap sitch makes it no longer a slam-dunk that the Bills pick up his fully-guaranteed 5th year option, but it's a far cry from "not sure we're gonna pay him $12.7M guaranteed in a tight cap year" to "sure, we'll gonna bet the season we can replace this guy, his leadership, and his years of experience in our defensive system with some 2nd round rook"."

 

SMDH

I couldn’t conjure up a football relevant comment in the context of the 50th thread discussing whether TE will be traded,won’t be traded or should be traded on draft day, before draft day or on Mother’s Day, so I posted something silly—it’s more a reflection of my opinion of this endless, empty  “debate”.  

 

Stays or goes, I don’t have a strong opinion either way.  No big deal. 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Regarding Edmunds, the facts of the situation are that picking up both 5th year options in the same year is a 35 mill, inflexible cap hit. The reality of the salary cap being unknown next year with the tv deal not taking effect until 2023 makes it almost impossible to pick up both. Most teams don’t have two 5th year options come due in the same year as it’s pretty rare to draft twice in the first. Yay for hitting on both and it being a problem. 
 

I took nothing from the presser that Beane doesn’t see Edmunds as a Bill long-term. But he also knows the realities of the above and the other guy is the franchise QB. I don’t think his option will be picked up but it’s not because he’s not in their plans I think an extension for Edmunds is in play if he has a good season where the terms are more flexible toward the 2022 cap than the 5th yr option. If he doesn’t have a good season, well, that’s another story but they certainly seem to like him and he’s still probably younger than some of the LBs in this draft. 

Seems like if Bills don’t pick up his option, the odds of him returning next year are low.    I know the calculus has changed with the 5th year option being fully guaranteed now, but I can’t think of anyone who re-upped with their old team when their 5th year option was declined.  

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Seems like if Bills don’t pick up his option, the odds of him returning next year are low.    I know the calculus has changed with the 5th year option being fully guaranteed now, but I can’t think of anyone who re-upped with their old team when their 5th year option was declined.  

Whether or not there is precedent for it doesn’t matter imo due to two circumstances that are relatively unique - compressed salary cap and two 5th year options in same year for same team. Unless both have occurred for another team at the same time in the past, there really is no precedent to look at.  Perhaps Edmunds isn’t back in 2022, but I didn’t draw that conclusion from this presser or the circumstances.