Rochesterfan Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, dneveu said: And they're positioned well if someone wants a QB ahead of detroit/denver. Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick. If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought. They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts). If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3. They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5. The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it. Edited April 20, 2021 by Rochesterfan
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: I honestly think Miami's rise is "severely" overrated. I don't like what they've done, and I'm not in love with their direction. For starters, Im not a believer in Tua. Nor was i a fan of throwing Tua in over Fitz. They keep jettisoning solid players for draft picks, yet the drafting has been so so. Draft picks are great, but you've got to draft players, keep them, and coach them. Let alone build a culture, etc... The trading back cuteness got the Pats in steady decline. They hit on a few, but missed elite players. I see similiar stuff happening in Miami. Pitts is sitting there, a future HOF'er if ive ever seen one. Dont overthink it. They overthink things and get cute. Much of the talent they've cut, traded, or trimmed would have made them better. Theyve missed on many FAs as well. Then there is Tua. Then there was that righteous pounding, beat down we gave them in January. Not exactly culture building. ...And Flores sure as hell is no Bill Billicheck. I agree on many of the points here. 3 1st rounders last year, and ii didn't really love any of the picks. In a talented WR draft - and at a position of need - they didn't take one. I wasn't impressed with Jackson, and the corner they picked played like 25% of snaps behind jones/howard. If you have 2 good corners under contract for a while, why would you take another? By the time he has a spot to start he'll need to get paid. They also moved fitzpatrick (an all-pro) for picks, and didn't exactly replace him. 4 picks in the first 50, they still need front 7 help, they could upgrade at safety on defense. And on offense they still probably need oline help, and only have Fuller under contract for a season. If Tua is a hit they'll be fine, but if he isn't they're still a pretty poor offense and a turnover dependent defense that isn't great at stopping the run.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick. If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought. They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts). If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3. They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5. The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it. I think at 6 they can get 1 of chase, pitts, sewell, smith. So no matter what they're positioned for a playmaker on offense, or upgrading the offensive line. They also still have 4 of the first 50 picks. But they're a 10-6 team with 1 win over a playoff team (a rams game where they had under 150 yards of offense, 8 first downs, and 2 D/ST TDs), and 4 losses to playoff teams where they gave up more than 30 points a game and like 450 yards in each. They aren't a finished product on either side of the ball - and Tua needs to make a big jump for them to stay where they are in the standings. They need some hits in this draft too, as they really only have 1 star player in howard.
HardyBoy Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.
mannc Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available. That's possible. It's more likely that they suspect Tua might not have what it takes, but feel they need to give him another year, to be sure. And they don't want to look like complete idiots for drafting him instead of Justin Herbert.
B-Man Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 Well, I hope that this "clever" organization, is smart enough to NOT trade with New England.
DCOrange Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 30 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available. I think this is pretty likely tbh. After Lawrence, I don't have any of these QBs rated above where Tua was last year. They desperately need more offensive talent on that team, whether it's the pass catchers or the OLine.
MJS Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 14 hours ago, ScottLaw said: It would actually be smart, IMO. They can trade down pick up another 1st next year and If Tua isn't that guy but that still go .500 or so they have the ability to package some picks to move up and get a QB next season if they think one is there.... or trade for Deshaun assuming his legal issues are behind him by then. Then they should not have traded back up to 6. 1
Captain Hindsight Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 46 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available. Possible, but I'm not sure his HC believes in him. Hence the relief pitcher. They lured Brissett there too with a 5 million dollar contract. Orton was paid 6 mil IIRC to be the eventual starter here. Miami is hedging their bets with a vet with lots of starting experience
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick. If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought. They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts). If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3. They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5. The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it. I think you only do the trade-up if you're comfortable with a group of top tier guys.
NewEra Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, HardyBoy said: I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available. Not sure how anyone, literally anyone (even babies) could think that Tua has a higher upside that Fields or Lance.
Rochesterfan Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 32 minutes ago, dneveu said: I think you only do the trade-up if you're comfortable with a group of top tier guys. Agreed - so then why trade back down a second time. If someone is moving up to get a QB ahead of Detroit or Denver - you are dropping back to the teens and outside of the top tier guys. You picked up a good haul dropping back to 12 and then gave away more than 1/2 to move back up to 6. The net acquired by Miami was less than a single trade from 3 to 6, but the 2 trades put them in position to still get a top guy and acquire a 1st rd pick a ways out. I just do not understand the smokescreen given to move back down again - if that is even a remote though process - the move back up from 12 to 6 was stupid and worthless.
RichRiderBills Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, HardyBoy said: I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available. They could have had Pitts, who is a generational talent. Now they need to cross their fingers ATL and CIN dont take him. 2 hours ago, dneveu said: I think at 6 they can get 1 of chase, pitts, sewell, smith. So no matter what they're positioned for a playmaker on offense, or upgrading the offensive line. They also still have 4 of the first 50 picks. But they're a 10-6 team with 1 win over a playoff team (a rams game where they had under 150 yards of offense, 8 first downs, and 2 D/ST TDs), and 4 losses to playoff teams where they gave up more than 30 points a game and like 450 yards in each. They aren't a finished product on either side of the ball - and Tua needs to make a big jump for them to stay where they are in the standings. They need some hits in this draft too, as they really only have 1 star player in howard. I think Pitts is well above those other guys. BTW cannot stress how I 💘 them letting Godchaux, Lawson, and Van Noy walk. Phins are kidding themselves, and they've gotten worse. Edited April 20, 2021 by RichRiderBills
HardyBoy Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, MJS said: Then they should not have traded back up to 6. Is it possible the value of the sixth pick goes up on draft day though? Also, there is a benefit of knowing who is available at six, and then deciding to trade down, that opportunity to have that knowledge is valuable in itself. 1 1
RichRiderBills Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Not sure how anyone, literally anyone (even babies) could think that Tua has a higher upside that Fields or Lance. Phins will draft a later QB, likely a 3rd or 4th rounder. Tua had a ton of upside when drafted...he was hurt afterall.
RobbRiddick Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 I don't get why people are calling them clueless. I'm sorry to say the Dolphins now seem like a very smart team and have done a great job the last few years. They remind me of the Bills actually. The biggest mistake they've made IMO is Tua. Maybe he'll look great but I'd be surprised and as someone else mentioned here, they could end up with a lot of ammo to go after a top QB next year 1
NewEra Posted April 20, 2021 Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: Phins will draft a later QB, likely a 3rd or 4th rounder. Tua had a ton of upside when drafted...he was hurt afterall. Yeah, I’m not disputing that. All I said was Tuas ceiling isn’t as high as Lance or fields.
78thealltimegreat Posted April 21, 2021 Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) On 4/19/2021 at 8:03 PM, ScottLaw said: It would actually be smart, IMO. They can trade down pick up another 1st next year and If Tua isn't that guy but that still go .500 or so they have the ability to package some picks to move up and get a QB next season if they think one is there.... or trade for Deshaun assuming his legal issues are behind him by then. The problem is next year the QB class is basically Spencer Rattler and that’s it and even he’s an iffy prospect there is no Trevor Lawrence lurking for the next few years till DJ Uiagalelei is ready and then after that the Arch Manning hype will then start to begin Edited April 21, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat
DolFAN93 Posted April 21, 2021 Posted April 21, 2021 16 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: BTW cannot stress how I 💘 them letting Godchaux, Lawson, and Van Noy walk. Phins are kidding themselves, and they've gotten worse. You're saying this as if Miami lost elite talent lol. There's already players on the team that can fill those roles. *Godchaux was a rotational DT by the end of last year after getting his snaps taken away by Zach Sieler. They also signed Adam Butler from the Pats-- 15 career sacks vs Godchaux's 3. *AVG was more productive than Van Noy in less snaps. That veteran presence will be missed but that's about it. * The beauty of Miami's defense is they don't rely on stars for their DL. As long as you can create pressure (107 career pressures by Butler compared to Godchaux's 48 btw) you can play for Flores. Lawson didn't do it consistently which is why he's gone.
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