Matt_In_NH Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: I will be such a happy man when people can differentiate between an excuse and a reason. "Reasons" become excuses after multiple years. At some point its put up or shut up. I agree with the OP to a point but the defense as a whole played much better after the bye week and so all the players mentioned were a part of that. Oliver stands out to me as underwhelming, he was supposed to be a playmaker, big plays have been limited. 1
Paup 1995MVP Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That's what I thought (and was afraid of). So Edmunds will cost us $14.791M in 2022 if we trigger his 5th year option. Cap should be back up next year so I'm not too worried about that, but that number does make it a more interesting decision for Beane. Edmunds is nowhere near a $15 mill player. But Beane needs to decide whether Edmunds will make that jump this season to being that type of player in year 5. I hope he becomes that if the Bills pick up the 5th year option. But if I am the Bills I don't do it. If he were on the Bills of yesteryear, he would not have seen the field on the Super Bowl era teams. Or the teams of the late 90's when we had Sam Rogers, Sam Cowart John Holacek and Keith Newman. All had more game then Edmunds. I mean for you fans who remember the 90's era, is Edmunds even as good or better then say a Gabe Northern?
NewEra Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: When you draft a kid who is barely 19, you gotta be ready to ride it out. It isnt my money, and I'd hate to move on too early. LBs do tend to get better and better over time as their pre-snap reads evolve. I agree. I don’t feel like we can just let him go next year and hope we get a comp pick. While I’ve been one of his biggest critics, I’m also one of his biggest fans. His ceiling makes him worthy of the 5th year option. We just have to hope that his play isn’t one of the reasons we don’t win a super bowl 1
Blokestradamus Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, mattynh said: "Reasons" become excuses after multiple years. At some point its put up or shut up. I agree with the OP to a point but the defense as a whole played much better after the bye week and so all the players mentioned were a part of that. Oliver stands out to me as underwhelming, he was supposed to be a playmaker, big plays have been limited. I don't disagree. The fact that we're still seeing the same talking points for Tremaine now that I noticed when he was a sophomore at VT is alarming. I don't think you can make excuses for poor reads when he's had 3 years of experience under what is talked up as one of the better developmental staffs in the league. Harrison Phillips coming back from a major injury is a reason. ACL rehab is a B word, I've done it twice. I couldn't imagine getting shoved around by NFL linemen a year after my surgeries. A 3-tech not being as productive as you'd hope because he's having to masquerade as a space eater and having to play alongside people that struggle to complement him stylistically is a reason. An offseason of rehab and Star coming back should fix those reasons. If not, they enter excuse territory. 3 1 1
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, NewEra said: Yeah...the 5th year option is worth more than he is based on his play to this point. But I’d still be shocked if they don’t pick it up. If it's the same as the franchise tag there isn't any reason to pick it up and guarantee his pay 2 seasons down the road..........just use the tag when the time comes due. No value in taking the risk..........plus it dangles a carrot this year. Edited April 19, 2021 by BADOLBILZ spelling 4
DrDawkinstein Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: I agree. I don’t feel like we can just let him go next year and hope we get a comp pick. While I’ve been one of his biggest critics, I’m also one of his biggest fans. His ceiling makes him worthy of the 5th year option. We just have to hope that his play isn’t one of the reasons we don’t win a super bowl I'm 100% with you, and it makes discussing him so difficult. 🤣 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: It it's the same as the franchise tag there isn't any reason to pick it up and guarantee his pay 2 seasons down the road..........just use the tag when the time comes due. No value in taking the risk..........plus it dangles a carrot this year. This... is actually a really good point. 2
billsfan89 Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 There will be a lot of pressure on Ed, AJ, Edumonds and Phillips to step up. For one Phillips career here is on the line. I suspect they draft an NT in round 3-5 which will put a lot of pressure on him to justify his spot. Edumonds is likely also playing for his next contract, a bad year in a contract season is going to cost him money. AJ will need to justify his playing time this season as if he comes in with another down year he will not be handed any snaps in year 3 and it will be harder to come by. Ed needs to prove he is an elite player. He has justified being a starting caliber player which is good for development as he can stay on the field but he really needs to have that breakout season. I suspect they add 2-3 defensive players in rounds 1-3 which will give the defense even more young talent, but it is critical that the talent that is already on the defensive side of the ball step up. 1
NewEra Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: It it's the same as the franchise tag there isn't any reason to pick it up and guarantee his pay 2 seasons down the road..........just use the tag when the time comes due. No value in taking the risk..........plus it dangles a carrot this year. Good point. The franchise tag slipped my mind. I figured it would have been much higher as Bosa and other “edge rushers” are technically LBs playing in a 3-4. Wasn’t sure how that LB franchise that worked
billieve420 Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 Edmunds is more of a finesse player not someone I normally like at middle linebacker. However, the D-line needs to do a better job of keeping the LBs clean. Our D-line was the biggest weakness last year. Will see how big of a difference Star makes if he is still the same player he was prior to taking year off. Drafting his replacement in the mid-late rounds is a necessity.
Patrick Duffy Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: It it's the same as the franchise tag there isn't any reason to pick it up and guarantee his pay 2 seasons down the road..........just use the tag when the time comes due. No value in taking the risk..........plus it dangles a carrot this year. This is exactly what they should do. And I believe it's very likely they do. 3 minutes ago, billieve420 said: Edmunds is more of a finesse player not someone I normally like at middle linebacker. However, the D-line needs to do a better job of keeping the LBs clean. Our D-line was the biggest weakness last year. Will see how big of a difference Star makes if he is still the same player he was prior to taking year off. Drafting his replacement in the mid-late rounds is a necessity. Yeah and when the Dline up front struggles, it trickles down to the LB's and makes it difficult for them. But there has been times when Edmunds made bad decisions and hopefully his instinct will get better as he continues to learn.
DCofNC Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 57 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That's what I thought (and was afraid of). So Edmunds will cost us $14.791M in 2022 if we trigger his 5th year option. Cap should be back up next year so I'm not too worried about that, but that number does make it a more interesting decision for Beane. No, it’s an easy decision, he’s not getting that.
Tcali Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 The Bills fans are famous for the 'playing out of position' excuse. I dont believe Oliver and Edmunds are bad players.I think they are very average. So the high picks used for them were very bad decisions..Unless they are both playing out of position. Put Oliver at DE and see if he is strong/fast enough to get push from the outside as well as contain the run. I think its obvious that he isnt going to win many sumo matches in the middle in an enclosed area against an O lineman who outweighs him by 50 LBs. Edmunds doesnt have the body type for middle linebacker.Too top heavy.--Put him outside as well so he can use that speed . 1 1
Chaos Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 People that get paid money to evaluate these things selected Edmunds to the pro bowl. I personally do not think he is excellent at football. It seems more likely I am wrong than the pros. But it is how I see it. 1
NickelCity Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 Watching Ed next to a real 1-tech is close to what I'm most excited to watch this year. Star plus a solid rookie prospect at 1T and let Ed hunt.
Captain_Quint Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 20 minutes ago, NickelCity said: Watching Ed next to a real 1-tech is close to what I'm most excited to watch this year. Star plus a solid rookie prospect at 1T and let Ed hunt. I agree about him next to a real 1T, but I'm not sold on Star being that player anymore. I'd be surprised if we saw Star commanding double teams, and less surprised if a rookie doesnt outplay him as the year goes on. Hopefully I'm wrong about that and the year off did him some good. Because I do think Oliver suffered from playing out of position and also by subpar play at 1T this past year. 1
Success Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 I was ready to be upset about this post based only on the title - but the content of the OP is fair. Fortunately, I expect most if not all of those guys to come through this season. If they all take the step that we'd expect, our defensive worries will be reduced significantly. We could be looking at a pretty young, pretty impactful defense. Which would really make me start think Beane is truly a genius.
dpberr Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 IMO, the problems are the coaches when it comes to Oliver and Epenesa. Ed Oliver was a pass rushing DT in college. That's what he did well in college. He was a Top 10 pick because he consistently got into the backfield. The Bills disagree, obviously, and have insisted on making Oliver a jack of all trades DT. If Ed Oliver played in the old Jim Schwartz defense, he'd have double digit sacks annually. Epenesa never played a down as a linebacker in his high school or college career. I have no idea what the Bills want Epenesa to do with all that weight loss. He's for sure, no longer a lineman that's going to routinely beat tackles. I don't think Edmunds is bad at all. He may not have had enough experience to do the best job at being the playcaller on the defense last year. 1
Tcali Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 1 hour ago, DCofNC said: No, it’s an easy decision, he’s not getting that. i agree....only the redskins or cowboys would be stupid enough to pay him that 1
SirAndrew Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, dpberr said: IMO, the problems are the coaches when it comes to Oliver and Epenesa. Ed Oliver was a pass rushing DT in college. That's what he did well in college. He was a Top 10 pick because he consistently got into the backfield. The Bills disagree, obviously, and have insisted on making Oliver a jack of all trades DT. If Ed Oliver played in the old Jim Schwartz defense, he'd have double digit sacks annually. Epenesa never played a down as a linebacker in his high school or college career. I have no idea what the Bills want Epenesa to do with all that weight loss. He's for sure, no longer a lineman that's going to routinely beat tackles. I don't think Edmunds is bad at all. He may not have had enough experience to do the best job at being the playcaller on the defense last year. The entire Epenesa situation feels like the old square peg in a round hole deal. Our front office is incredible, but that doesn’t mean we can’t question things. I’ve always been very confused trying to understand what they want from Epenesa. I think people on this board underestimate how much he’ll need to overcome to become a good NFL player. The guy needs to learn more than the average young player. He needs to learn the NFL game AND how to play the game in his new frame, along with a new position. That’s a lot to ask from someone.
Recommended Posts