Who are the 49er's going to take at 3

[fergie's ire]

2 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

 

 

Very TB12

 

 

Indeed: 

[mannc]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Equally let's imagine a world where the 49ers select Mac Jones and he ends up starting the second half of the year and goes 4-4 looking like a good game manager type who is efficient, high completion % and runs Shanny's offense. Meanwhile Justin Fields is drafted by New England plays from week 4 and looks great. I think that puts Lynch and Shanny at great risk as well. If they go against the grain with Jones (and if they really believe he is the guy then they should) and he looks decent but not great while either Lance or Fields looks special then they are in trouble. I just don't buy that Jones is the only safe play. 

Why are so many people incredulous that SF might take Jones at 3?  Shanahan probably sees him as similar to Joe Burrow--a guy without elite athleticism and who might not have a cannon, but who always makes the right decision with the ball and can deliver it where it needs to go.  I don't understand why Jones doesn't draw more Burrow comparisons...  

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, mannc said:

Why are so many people incredulous that SF might take Jones at 3?  Shanahan probably sees him as similar to Joe Burrow--a guy without elite athleticism and who might not have a cannon, but who always makes the right decision with the ball and can deliver it where it needs to go.  I don't understand why Jones doesn't draw more Burrow comparisons...  

 

I don't see Burrow as much I have to say. He doesn't throw with as much anticipation as Burrow. I like Mac. I don't really have an issue them taking him even though I think he is the 5th best QB in this admittedly good class. I just think going all the way up to #3 for him would be a bit rich. I suspect and continue to believe it is for one of the guys I consider to have a higher ceiling. 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't see Burrow as much I have to say. He doesn't throw with as much anticipation as Burrow. I like Mac. I don't really have an issue them taking him even though I think he is the 5th best QB in this admittedly good class. I just think going all the way up to #3 for him would be a bit rich. I suspect and continue to believe it is for one of the guys I consider to have a higher ceiling. 

With all due respect, I don't know how you can make this statement.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

With all due respect, I don't know how you can make this statement.  

 

Mac is a bit more see guy throw ball to my eyes. Obviously it is subjective but I saw more throws I graded as anticipatory on Burrow's tape. Was one of the areas he stood out. 

[mannc]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mac is a bit more see guy throw ball to my eyes. Obviously it is subjective but I saw more throws I graded as anticipatory on Burrow's tape. Was one of the areas he stood out. 

You might be right, of course, but that seems like an awfully subjective standard and a pretty thin basis for one guy being the consensus number 1 pick and the other guy a borderline first rounder...Both played pretty much perfect football in their last seasons in CFB, and both had similarly astounding supporting casts, so it won't do to say "But Jones was at Alabama..."

[Coach Tuesday]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mac is a bit more see guy throw ball to my eyes. Obviously it is subjective but I saw more throws I graded as anticipatory on Burrow's tape. Was one of the areas he stood out. 

 

Yeah you lost me there as well.  Throwing with anticipation is literally the ONLY thing Mac does well and he's quite good at it.

 

From Football Outsiders:

 

"The Crimson Tide's historic signal-caller also shredded the competition thanks to his pristine timing. Jones knows that his arm strength is lacking, and he has a good understanding of how to best work around that. Jones, at least at the college level, often circumvented his middling arm strength by anticipating when routes would become open and throwing early. That leaves him ripe for some Rivers-esque interceptions, but if done right, it can be the reason Jones finds success now and in the future."

 

OTOH I agree he's nothing like Burrow - Burrow has an above-average arm, but more important, his pocket feel is extraordinary.  Jones is nowhere close to the prospect Burrow was.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Yeah you lost me there as well.  Throwing with anticipation is literally the ONLY thing Mac does well and he's quite good at it.

 

From Football Outsiders:

 

"The Crimson Tide's historic signal-caller also shredded the competition thanks to his pristine timing. Jones knows that his arm strength is lacking, and he has a good understanding of how to best work around that. Jones, at least at the college level, often circumvented his middling arm strength by anticipating when routes would become open and throwing early. That leaves him ripe for some Rivers-esque interceptions, but if done right, it can be the reason Jones finds success now and in the future."

 

OTOH I agree he's nothing like Burrow - Burrow has an above-average arm, but more important, his pocket feel is extraordinary.  Jones is nowhere close to the prospect Burrow was.

 

Meh. It just isn't what I see on his tape. I agree on Burrow's pocket feel as well. He has a great pocket presence. I think Mac has nice timing but I think it is timing within the rhythm of the offense rather than what I think Burrow has and Philip Rivers (mentioned above) had in that instinctive nous of when to let go. Again, I get that stuff is subjective though - but you can only grade on what you see when you watch the tape. I can't grade on what other people see. 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by GunnerBill

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, mannc said:

You might be right, of course, but that seems like an awfully subjective standard and a pretty thin basis for one guy being the consensus number 1 pick and the other guy a borderline first rounder...Both played pretty much perfect football in their last seasons in CFB, and both had similarly astounding supporting casts, so it won't do to say "But Jones was at Alabama..."

These are different types of QBs so hard to compare so closely imo. Burrow is far more athletic than Jones (movement skills in pocket, throwing on the run, straight line speed). Burrow was an all-state basketball player in HS and a 4star QB recruit , he’s just a great athlete. I think he would have developed more quickly in college had he given up bball sooner and focused on football. Burrow’s ability to work with Joe Brady at LSU really put his development and pro-readiness over the top in last year’s draft.  I will add some of burrow’s tight window throws in college simply were jaw dropping. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

These are different types of QBs so hard to compare so closely imo. Burrow is far more athletic than Jones (movement skills in pocket, throwing on the run, straight line speed). Burrow was an all-state basketball player in HS and a 4star QB recruit , he’s just a great athlete. I think he would have developed more quickly in college had he given up bball sooner and focused on football. Burrow’s ability to work with Joe Brady at LSU really put his development and pro-readiness over the top in last year’s draft. 

I don't buy that Burrow is that much more athletic than Jones.  Jones ran a 4.8 at his pro day, which is more than adequate.  I can't find a 40 time for Burrow, since his pro day was cancelled and he did not run at the combine, but it's unlikely he's much faster than 4.8.  The fact that Jones wasn't a basketball star probably isn't much of an indicator of his potential as an NFL QB, otherwise Charlie Ward would have been a star in the NFL. 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don't buy that Burrow is that much more athletic than Jones.  Jones ran a 4.8 at his pro day, which is more than adequate.  I can't find a 40 time for Burrow, since his pro day was cancelled and he did not run at the combine, but it's unlikely he's much faster than 4.8.  The fact that Jones wasn't a basketball star probably isn't much of an indicator of his potential as an NFL QB, otherwise Charlie Ward would have been a star in the NFL. 

Why not? Seems obvious just by watching them play.

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Why not? Seems obvious just by watching them play.

I'll admit that Jones isn't much of a threat to run with the ball--at least he never had to do it at Alabama--but Burrow isn't exactly Josh Allen, or even Justin Herbert. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I'll admit that Jones isn't much of a threat to run with the ball--at least he never had to do it at Alabama--but Burrow isn't exactly Josh Allen, or even Justin Herbert. 

Not much to do with “running with the ball.” Burrow's pocket poise/mobility inside and outside the pocket is Elite. If you want to compare burrow to someone in this class - Fields comes to mind. He has a much bigger arm than burrow but neither of them run with the ball much. They just stand tall in the pocket, can get away from the defense and make plays with their arms. Accuracy on the move. It’s impressive. 

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not much to do with “running with the ball.” Burrow's pocket poise/mobility inside and outside the pocket is Elite. If you want to compare burrow to someone in this class - Fields comes to mind. He has a much bigger arm than burrow but neither of them run with the ball much. They just stand tall in the pocket, can get away from the defense and make plays with their arms. Accuracy on the move. It’s impressive. 

Agreed, but Mac Jones did not accomplish what he did without being able to make plays outside the pocket.  Yeah, his team was very talented, but they weren't playing against scrubs. 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

Agreed, but Mac Jones did not accomplish what he did without being able to make plays outside the pocket.  Yeah, his team was very talented, but they weren't playing against scrubs. 

I really don’t look at who a QB plays with as something factored in to where nfl teams will grade a QB. They isolate the QB’s nfl traits. It’s about projection to the nfl. I don’t care who Mac played with, it is not a negative to me at all. Every Qb  at Bama plays with 1st round talent on offense. Not unique to him. Each Qb is different and evaluated according to his specific traits. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[NewEra]

[Estro]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

Why are so many people incredulous that SF might take Jones at 3?  Shanahan probably sees him as similar to Joe Burrow--a guy without elite athleticism and who might not have a cannon, but who always makes the right decision with the ball and can deliver it where it needs to go.  I don't understand why Jones doesn't draw more Burrow comparisons...  

In a weird way the conversation has shifted from comparing QB prospects to focusing on the color of their skin.  There's an underlying current against Mac Jones because people don't think it's fair or reasonable that people could actually prefer him over Fields.  Dan Orlovsky shared some negative things he was hearing about Fields and the majority woke media, led by Peter King, turned it into a conversation about race.  King was pretty adamant that Orlovsky had no right sharing that info with his audience.

 

It has created an interesting betting market because there's so much unknown or known, depending on who you talk to, surrounding the #3 pick.

 

Can't wait to see who it is

[YoloinOhio]

On 4/19/2021 at 3:35 PM, B-Man said:

 

Zack Wilson

 

 

(the Jets will screw up their pick)

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

Apparently not Fields:

 

 

[BigAl2526]

I buy the reasoning that you don't draft the player with the lower ceiling at #3.  Virtually everybody thinks Mac Jones is the player with the lower ceiling.  I suspect the choice will be Trey Lance.