Why can't Brandon Beane get the defense right?

[BillsFan1988]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:53 AM, FireChans said:

Honestly, it's kind of shocking how much worse his defensive acquisitions have been compared to Sean. 

 

Who are our best defenders currently on the roster? 

 

Poyer

Hyde

Tre

Milano

Jerry

 

Do you notice something?  4 of those players were acquired by McD without the McBeane.  Jerry was obviously already here.

 

Compare it to the list of hacks that Beane has acquired. I'd type out all the bums and disappointments but it'd take too long.

 

All I know is if you eliminate the 2017 fellas, our defense would be the worst in the NFL.  If you eliminate Beane's JAG brigade, eh, we'd be okay.

 

Is it time for McD to make the picks again? Beane got the QB, let's thank him for his service and let's put the King of William and Mary back in the Kirk chair.

I seen Jim Minos on Buffalo Fanatics podcast on youtube he said 2017 was a total team effort with the final say with Mcd . Whaley and his staff scouted the players brought Mcd and his staff the players that fit there schemes. I'm pretty sure Beane operates the same way. 

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He didn't say Star is irreplaceable. He said the Bills were unable to replace him last year with the limited options they had, which is obviously true. They tried rotating Butler, Phillips, and Zimmer to fill that one spot, and the results were terrible. Phillips and Zimmer in particular regularly got blown off the ball. It was so bad that they had to play Oliver at 1-tech because despite being a natural 3-tech he was still better than any of the other players they tried to give the job to.

 

I see NC State DT Alim McNeill as a potential 3rd round option for the Bills. They need to find a developmental backup and long term replacement for Star so last year's problems don't resurface.

Yeah so maybe Beano could have had a serviceable 1T backup on the roster instead of 3 bad 3T’s? 
 

If Star rolls his ankle in preseason, will we roll out the excuses for a trash defense “there was just no way to replace him!!!!!!”

[BillsFan1988]

On 4/16/2021 at 1:34 AM, NewEra said:

McD, Frazier and Beane have equal responsibility regarding the success of our D.  It’s not just the GM.  Coaching is just as important. Some games our D has a great game plan.  Some games it’s terrible.  The D needs an upgrade at some defensive positions and it also needs better coaching at times

Also I hope we can tweak the scheme a little this yr . Mcd doesn't call alot of stunts or twists nor do we ever use any wide 9 formations on obvious passing downs. 

[TBBills]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah so maybe Beano could have had a serviceable 1T backup on the roster instead of 3 bad 3T’s? 
 

If Star rolls his ankle in preseason, will we roll out the excuses for a trash defense “there was just no way to replace him!!!!!!”

If only you were GM we would have won so many Super Bowls. You would have predicted the pandemic and won more than 13 games.

Edited April 18, 2021 by TBBills

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah so maybe Beano could have had a serviceable 1T backup on the roster instead of 3 bad 3T’s? 

 

No team has good backups at every position. Star's decision to opt out came at the very end of July. At that point they had no choice but to roll with the players they had. Like I said I expect them to draft someone this year, probably round 3 or later.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He didn't say Star is irreplaceable. He said the Bills were unable to replace him last year with the limited options they had, which is obviously true.

 

 

It's not true though.

 

The Bills 1 tech position was a defensive weakness in 2019 as well.    But they had a ridiculously easy schedule and great health.   Still, there was much lamentation about the loss of Harrison Phillips.......who was indeed off to an excellent start in 2019.   Lotulelei played the lowest % of snaps in his career and the Bills cut his pay after the season.  

 

The issues on defense last year were a MUCH harder schedule with much better QB's........injuries, especially to the LB corps...........and teams reacting effectively to the Bills increasingly predictable scheme.    

 

A lot of fans want to sum up the Bills shortcomings by the result of the AFCCG...........but the real indicator was the Colts game.     A tired, veteran QB was able to thoroughly dissect a predictable scheme.....his waning physical ability just couldn't cash in a number of golden opportunities to put touchdowns on the board.    And the inability of the Bills offense to push the ball downfield against the worst deep pass defense in the league turned what looked like a lopsided matchup into a struggle that only a huge individual effort from Allen saved them from losing.

[Logic]

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

I see NC State DT Alim McNeill as a potential 3rd round option for the Bills. They need to find a developmental backup and long term replacement for Star so last year's problems don't resurface.

As I understand it, Alim McNeil's college coach is close with Sean McDermott, too. He seems a good fit for the Bills physically and mentally. The third round seems like the sweet spot for a 1T, in any case.

[RobbRiddick]

Defense, much like soft drinks, is for p*ssies

 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

As I understand it, Alim McNeil's college coach is close with Sean McDermott, too. He seems a good fit for the Bills physically and mentally. The third round seems like the sweet spot for a 1T, in any case.

Alim seems to be the clear best of this 1T class.  While he may not be a “good pass rusher”, he’s probably the best 1T pass rusher in this draft and is capable of pushing the pocket.  We need a pocket collapsing 1T imo.  Not just a 1T that holds his ground.  
 

I don’t think he makes it to rd 3.  If we want him, we need to take him if he’s still there @61 imo.  I would prefer to take a 1T in the later rounds, but he could really help unlock Ed, which would make a huge difference in our D.  

[Logic]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Alim seems to be the clear best of this 1T class.  While he may not be a “good pass rusher”, he’s probably the best 1T pass rusher in this draft and is capable of pushing the pocket.  We need a pocket collapsing 1T imo.  Not just a 1T that holds his ground.  
 

I don’t think he makes it to rd 3.  If we want him, we need to take him if he’s still there @61 imo.  I would prefer to take a 1T in the later rounds, but he could really help unlock Ed, which would make a huge difference in our D.  

I’m fine with using pick 61 on a DT.

 

People talk about finding difference makers/playmakers in the 1st two rounds.

Well, in my mind, we have three players already on the roster that need to make more plays, that need to take a step and fulfill their potential as playmakers: Oliver, Edmunds, and Epenesa. As such, drafting a facilitator who could help unlock and free up those players is just as good as adding another flashy playmaker.

 

I’m ESPECIALLY ok with taking a 1T at 61 if he also adds some pass rush value, as McNeil seems to.

[Weatherman]

On 4/15/2021 at 3:32 PM, Chandler#81 said:

Hey OP! Your parole officer is on line 2.

 

🤦‍♂️

So what you’re saying is you disagree with the OP in a condescending kind of way?  I’m not quite sure why you're always looking for reasons to take cheap shots at posters.  Mods should be the extinguisher not the gas IMHO.   
 

The OP has a valid point (although I slightly disagree with it).  We have a defensive SME HC and our major weakness this past year was on D.  Let’s hope that changes this year.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by Weatherman

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

No team has good backups at every position. Star's decision to opt out came at the very end of July. At that point they had no choice but to roll with the players they had. Like I said I expect them to draft someone this year, probably round 3 or later.

I mean that’s just not true. 

 

They had no choice? No way to acquire a 1T ANYWHERE?

 

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

If only you were GM we would have won so many Super Bowls. You would have predicted the pandemic and won more than 13 games.

I can guarantee I would have achieved at least as many Super Bowls as the Bills have won.

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They had no choice? No way to acquire a 1T ANYWHERE?

 

Right before training camp started, who exactly was still waiting to be signed? If you have an idea I'd love to hear it. All we could do is slap a band-aid on the position. Anyone we would have signed at that point would have been equivalent to the players we already had.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Right before training camp started, who exactly was still waiting to be signed? If you have an idea I'd love to hear it. All we could do is slap a band-aid on the position. Anyone we would have signed at that point would have been equivalent to the players we already had.

Damon Harrison.

[MJS]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Damon Harrison.

His combined 9 tackles for Seattle really moved the needle for them. On and off the practice squad and then a healthy scratch week 16.

 

He is washed up.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Of course a Beane Truther is also a “Star Loutotototototlelelele is irreplaceable” guy.

 

If by a "Beane truther," you mean a guy who sees - correctly - that Beane is doing an absolutely terrific job, then yeah, I'm a Beane truther. As frankly is anyone with half a functional brain.

 

If you mean that I think Lotulelei is literally irreplaceable, no, I certainly don't think that. Nor should anyone. But do I think Lotulelei is really good at the limited work they expect of him, as the Bills think, then yeah, I absolutely think that. Again, as should everyone. No, he'll never be a three-down guy, and no, he'll never rack up a ton of tackles either. He's not a particularly athletic guy. He's instead a powerhouse who can stop himself from being moved where people want to move him, even if there are two guys trying. That's rare. Not as rare as the unicorns who are both strong enough to be a space eater and also athletic enough to penetrate. But still rare to find guys with that level and the ability to eat blockers.

 

But they knew who he was when they signed him, having had him on their previous team for years. They wanted him to eat blocks and free up the LBs. He ate blocks and freed up the LBs. And it's difficult to find guys who can do that. There aren't that many of them out there. It's Parcells' Planet Theory. Not so many guys are that big and coordinated or strong enough to act as a space eater. Irreplaceable? Absolutely not. Hard to replace? Yes, of course. Virtually impossible to replace well as late in the year-long calendar as the optouts came, on July 28th, just before the start of camp? Yeah.

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

If you mean that I think Lotulelei is literally irreplaceable, no, I certainly don't think that. Nor should anyone. But do I think Lotulelei is really good at the limited work they expect of him, as the Bills think, then yeah, I absolutely think that. Again, as should everyone. No, he'll never be a three-down guy, and no, he'll never rack up a ton of tackles either. He's not a particularly athletic guy. He's instead a powerhouse who can stop himself from being moved where people want to move him, even if there are two guys trying. That's rare. Not as rare as the unicorns who are both strong enough to be a space eater and also athletic enough to penetrate. But still rare to find guys with that level and the ability to eat blockers.

 

But they knew who he was when they signed him, having had him on their previous team for years. They wanted him to eat blocks and free up the LBs. He ate blocks and freed up the LBs. And it's difficult to find guys who can do that. There aren't that many of them out there. It's Parcells' Planet Theory. Not so many guys are that big and coordinated or strong enough to act as a space eater. Irreplaceable? Absolutely not. Hard to replace? Yes, of course. Virtually impossible to replace well as late in the year-long calendar as the optouts came, on July 28th, just before the start of camp? Yeah.

 

 

 

I know you to be a deliberate, thoughtful poster. You claim Star Lotulelei does his limited job well. So my question is: how do we know that to be true? What evidence can you point to? 

 

I don't ask this to be obtuse or to passively suggest the opposite. I do sincerely wonder, however, how we can come to some kind of objective consensus on Star's performance as a Bill. Is it just watching the plays? Are there published, favorable grades on his play? I don't want to solely rely on McBeane's APPARENT judgment on his play. I want another source. Help me, Thurm. I know you value evidence and fair reporting. 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's not true though.

 

The Bills 1 tech position was a defensive weakness in 2019 as well.    But they had a ridiculously easy schedule and great health.   Still, there was much lamentation about the loss of Harrison Phillips.......who was indeed off to an excellent start in 2019.   Lotulelei played the lowest % of snaps in his career and the Bills cut his pay after the season.  

 

The issues on defense last year were a MUCH harder schedule with much better QB's........injuries, especially to the LB corps...........and teams reacting effectively to the Bills increasingly predictable scheme.    

 

A lot of fans want to sum up the Bills shortcomings by the result of the AFCCG...........but the real indicator was the Colts game.     A tired, veteran QB was able to thoroughly dissect a predictable scheme.....his waning physical ability just couldn't cash in a number of golden opportunities to put touchdowns on the board.    And the inability of the Bills offense to push the ball downfield against the worst deep pass defense in the league turned what looked like a lopsided matchup into a struggle that only a huge individual effort from Allen saved them from losing.

 

 

Oh, nonsense.

 

Of course there was lamentation when Phillips was injured. We run a platoon system and the platoon guys was gone.

 

As for your argument that Lotulelei played lower snaps that year, yet more dumb crap. He played 47% of snaps in 2018. Then in the year you're talking about, 2019 he dropped ... all the way down to 46%. Holy mackerel!! He dropped 1%!!!! That's huge ... to a person who doesn't get it.

 

And they didn't cut his pay, they negotiated a deal where his pay on his $50M contract was dropped in his third year by $1.75M, and he received an extra year of guaranteed salary and a year beyond that of salary guaranteed against injury. Both sides came out of that with some benefits.

 

Sure, there were other issues on defense last year. But Lotulelei's absence was absolutely huge.

 

And great point that in the Colts game they in your opinion "dissected a predictable scheme." That dissection is what held a team averageing 28.2 points per game to 24 points? Only four teams last year held the Colts offense to less than 24 points. Those other 12 teams would have loved to have the Colts offense "dissect" their defense to a 24 point total.

 

I know I just felt awful on that last drive when the Colts got the ball down by three points with 2:30 left on the clock and the Bills D just crushed the life out of them, not even allowing them close to field goal range. I was jumping up and down and shouting, "Yeah, Colts offense, keep 'dissecting' them that way!!"

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

20 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I know you to be a deliberate, thoughtful poster. You claim Star Lotulelei does his limited job well. So my question is: how do we know that to be true? What evidence can you point to? 

 

I don't ask this to be obtuse or to passively suggest the opposite. I do sincerely wonder, however, how we can come to some kind of objective consensus on Star's performance as a Bill. Is it just watching the plays? Are there published, favorable grades on his play? I don't want to solely rely on McBeane's APPARENT judgment on his play. I want another source. Help me, Thurm. I know you value evidence and fair reporting. 

Rich, first you’re response is very thoughtful as well.  The hard part for a 1 tech DT, is they are underappreciated who can eat up two guys so they don’t have some great stats.  He’s not Aaron Donald, nor are you or Thurm insinuating that point.  I’m not saying he’s the same guy, but Big Old Teddy Washington and Star avg. 2 sacks a year for their tenure.  The key if it helps is in the All 22.  When you watch closely when he was in games, he freed up Edmunds to do what he did best which is fly all over the field.  Oliver realized halfway through his first season he had more breathing room to penetrate as well as Jordan Phillips.  Phillips did nothing when he didn’t have that guy next to him in AZ.

 

You’re not alone bud in people thought he did nothing in 2019, but look at the front four the next year.  He’s not Reggie White ( I know a DE), but he fits what McD wants out of that position.  If we do draft a DT this year which is possible given the cap hit will be pretty much gone after 2021, expect a big space eating behemoth DT of one is there to carry on Star’s role.

 

I don’t think he is the second coming or anything, but McD’s defense depends on a selfless monster in the middle acting somewhat of that old 3-4 NT.  That’s Star.  If, and a big if so I’m not the Great Carnac the Magnificent (sorry, love throwing in the old Johnny Carson reference).  He should make Edmunds and Oliver, maybe Butler look better this year.  He’ll be invisible to us, but when you watch the 22, just look at how he manages the Center and a Guard.  He also makes it a little harder for opposing RB’s to get a cut back seam to bust one up the middle.  Maybe not perfect, but a little harder.

 

I do hope we find a young guy who is big enough, strong enough, and balanced enough to take on this role. As always Noggin, good question, and you’re right, Thurm knows his stuff.  Last disclaimer is just this is my humble opinion, but I have played and coached football.  When I was a LB 100 years ago, I was lucky to have at a lower level a buddy of mine who never received any glory, but he made my job so much easier nailing RB’s.  He clogged up the middle and the RB would have to take one more step making my job that much easier to hammer him.

 

Thanks as always Thurm.

 

For the youngins.

 

CARNAC THE MAGNIFICENT!  Sim sala Bim.

 

 

 

 

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Rich, first you’re response is very thoughtful as well.  The hard part for a 1 tech DT, is they are underappreciated who can eat up two guys so they don’t have some great stats.  He’s not Aaron Donald, nor are you or Thurm insinuating that point.  I’m not saying he’s the same guy, but Big Old Teddy Washington and Star avg. 2 sacks a year for their tenure.  The key if it helps is in the All 22.  When you watch closely when he was in games, he freed up Edmunds to do what he did best which is fly all over the field.  Oliver realized halfway through his first season he had more breathing room to penetrate as well as Jordan Phillips.  Phillips did nothing when he didn’t have that guy next to him in AZ.

 

You’re not alone bud in people thought he did nothing in 2019, but look at the front four the next year.  He’s not Reggie White ( I know a DE), but he fits what McD wants out of that position.  If we do draft a DT this year which is possible given the cap hit will be pretty much gone after 2021, expect a big space eating behemoth DT of one is there to carry on Star’s role.

 

I don’t think he is the second coming or anything, but McD’s defense depends on a selfless monster in the middle acting somewhat of that old 3-4 NT.  That’s Star.  If, and a big if so I’m not the Great Carnac the Magnificent (sorry, love throwing in the old Johnny Carson reference).  He should make Edmunds and Oliver, maybe Butler look better this year.  He’ll be invisible to us, but when you watch the 22, just look at how he manages the Center and a Guard.  He also makes it a little harder for opposing RB’s to get a cut back seam to bust one up the middle.  Maybe not perfect, but a little harder.

 

I do hope we find a young guy who is big enough, strong enough, and balanced enough to take on this role. As always Noggin, good question, and you’re right, Thurm knows his stuff.  Last disclaimer is just this is my humble opinion, but I have played and coached football.  When I was a LB 100 years ago, I was lucky to have at a lower level a buddy of mine who never received any glory, but he made my job so much easier nailing RB’s.  He clogged up the middle and the RB would have to take one more step making my job that much easier to hammer him.

 

Thanks as always Thurm.

 

For the youngins.

 

CARNAC THE MAGNIFICENT!  Sim sala Bim.

 

 

 

 

Carnac never gets old. 
 

“May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.”