Daunte Wright Shooting

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

Okay! Great so we start with you not knowing stats based on this comment since you don’t know what per capita means. Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. That’s a brave choice. Bravo!

 

So per capita means per person. So in the prior discussion we looked at welfare dollars per person.

 

This looks at shootings per race.

 

To make this easier to understand, you have a deck of 52 cards. 26 red and 26 black. If you pick a card you have a 50 percent chance of of getting black or red. Over a large enough sample (like say if every cop in the US picked a card, you’d expect 50 percent red and 50 percent black).

However, when these cops actually pull a card over a large sample, we find they pull a black card 2.6 times more than than they do a red card. Now if you were a critical thinker, you’d say hey wait that doesn’t make sense, we have an even population yet we’re pulling the black card at a higher frequency than the red card. Why is that?

 

Now to apply that to race in the US. White to black isn’t a 50/50 distribution. So we wouldn’t expect to sample US police shootings and see a 50/50 break down. We should expect to see a breakdown similar to population. But we don’t. We see a breakdown that skews more non-white than white based on population than we should see.

 

So I applaud you for acknowledging you don’t know statistics. I acknowledge this is a really quick example of how they would, so if my fellow posters see flaws in the analysis feel free to point them out so we can help educate Blitz!. So, maybe check out an online class and you can learn a little more than I can post in a quick post!

 

 

 

Lol what?  I know exactly what it means but thanks for clarifying.

 

I meant that I was expecting you to come right back with that "higher percentages of Blacks blah blah there are more whites in America blah blah."

 

Yes I understand this.  Unfortunately Team Lockdown doesn't but that's for another thread.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

 

Proportionate to the population.  It's not like a deck of cards you should flip and see something something.  

 

2 things.  

 

1.  68% of those deaths were white.  They are 77% of the population.  That doesn't scream immune/protected/privileged class to me.  So can you explain this?  

 

But 34% of those shot were Black and they are 13% of the population.....however...

 

2.  Over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by minorities.  Can you explain this?  Shouldn't it be more proportionate?

 

Oh and males.  It's almost entirely males.  By your proportionate logic....where are the females?  Aren't we woke enough to ask why can't women commit more violent crimes?  

 

I'm just making a point that this is more complex then wanting to boil it down to proportionate to population.  Which as I said, was exactly what I was expecting to hear from you.  

 

Are there racist cops....yes.  Is racism real....yes I can strongly say yes because of who we just elected president.  

 

 

[Backintheday544]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Lol what?  I know exactly what it means but thanks for clarifying.

 

I meant that I was expecting you to come right back with that "higher percentages of Blacks blah blah there are more whites in America blah blah."

 

Yes I understand this.  Unfortunately Team Lockdown doesn't but that's for another thread.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

 

Proportionate to the population.  It's not like a deck of cards you should flip and see something something.  

 

2 things.  

 

1.  68% of those deaths were white.  They are 77% of the population.  That doesn't scream immune/protected/privileged class to me.  So can you explain this?  

 

But 34% of those shot were Black and they are 13% of the population.....however...

 

2.  Over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by minorities.  Can you explain this?  Shouldn't it be more proportionate?

 

Oh and males.  It's almost entirely males.  By your proportionate logic....where are the females?  Aren't we woke enough to ask why can't women commit more violent crimes?  

 

I'm just making a point that this is more complex then wanting to boil it down to proportionate to population.  Which as I said, was exactly what I was expecting to hear from you.  

 

Are there racist cops....yes.  Is racism real....yes I can strongly say yes because of who we just elected president.  

 

 

Thank you! This is exactly why that other guy sucks! This is well thought out and an awesome response

[oldmanfan]

7 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

Serious question—when was the last time you started your day and your only goal was to get through it at work, stop at your favorite pizzeria on the way home so you could sit with your wife and watch Season 4 episode 3 of Longmire on Netflix?   And when was that plan last derailed a person you have never met before, doing the unexpected and physical, absolutely 100% committed to not going with you and you weren’t sure whether he was on drugs, going for a weapon and or about to drive off and hit a school bus full of children, or a mom running her youngest child off to school because the child refused to put  her new shoes on and catch the bus.  And when was the last time you thought to yourself—-STOP, we can just subdue this unknown party intent on doing something other than complying by engaging in hand to hand physical contact because when we do, no bones will crack, no ACLs will be torn, no teeth will be knocked out, no cuts will be opened even though this guy is 15 years younger than the rest of us and full of adrenaline with likely far more stamina than the three of us combined.  
 

The second best thing that could have happened to this young man was that the officer actually tased him and put the incident to bed.  The first was that he could have complied and no lives would have been lost or ruined.   
 

Training is always an answer and never a bad idea.   Unfortunately, when people are involved, sometimes dumb, bad ***** just happens across the board and the result is tragic.  

First Longmire is great.  My wife and I watched the entire series.  Second, I don’t experience what you describe because I’m not a cop.  What you describe is why I am pro-police; they have an impossibly difficult job.  But I be am also not a black man, and those black friends that I talk to feel they are in a no win situation when stopped by the police.  They feel they are at risk of getting shot by the police because of their skin color.  You may not understand that; I don’t.  But just as I am not in the position of the police, I am not in the position of a black man.  
 

Also, you and others assume that the person in question was on drugs.  That in itself shows some bias; that the black man must be on drugs.  The kid that was shot the other day I don’t think was pulled over for that.  But when you have 4 officers surrounding one guy, and they can’t subdue him without using a weapon, that to me indicates that more training is needed.   You, I and another person may have more difficulty subduing someone; several trained police should not.

[aristocrat]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.

So this kid put a gun in a girls face two years ago to rob her of rent money. That was his warrant.  He then was caught with a gun again.  Are your friends doing these sort of things or hanging out with guys doing these things?  If not it doesn’t seem like they have too much to worry about.  
 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

First Longmire is great.  My wife and I watched the entire series.  Second, I don’t experience what you describe because I’m not a cop.  What you describe is why I am pro-police; they have an impossibly difficult job.  But I be am also not a black man, and those black friends that I talk to feel they are in a no win situation when stopped by the police.  They feel they are at risk of getting shot by the police because of their skin color.  You may not understand that; I don’t.  But just as I am not in the position of the police, I am not in the position of a black man.  
 

Also, you and others assume that the person in question was on drugs.  That in itself shows some bias; that the black man must be on drugs.  The kid that was shot the other day I don’t think was pulled over for that.  But when you have 4 officers surrounding one guy, and they can’t subdue him without using a weapon, that to me indicates that more training is needed.   You, I and another person may have more difficulty subduing someone; several trained police should not.

I didn’t assume he was on drugs, I said the officers have absolutely no idea why he was compliant and cooperative until suddenly he wasn’t, and things changed dramatically and physically.  My only thought in that regard is that until then, a benign and likely everyday occurrence for the officers suddenly becomes much, much more potentially dangerous.  that changes everything.  That does not relieve the officer of the responsibility of acting professionally, following her training and discharging the appropriate weapon, but it certainly adds context to story beyond ‘shot for driving’.  
 

I respect the concerns of people that worry about being shot for simply being black, and you’re right, I cannot possibly walk in their shoes.  I only know that just like the concerns they’ve expressed, it’s completely understandable and absolutely fair for law enforcement officers to be very concerned about every interaction they have with people, and that just based on the human condition, there will be times when the outcome is tragic.  The difference of course is when the officer is the victim, and the attempt to subdue results in their death or serious injury, it’s not all that newsworthy because that sort of tragedy doesn’t sell. 
 

We can agree on Longmire though.  That’s enough for today. 
 

@aristocrat posted and reminded me of a point I missed.  While I laid out several reasons the officers might be concerned about his sudden attempt to flee, you jumped to the conclusion that because the young man was on black, that I assumed he was on drugs (most drug users I have known in my life have been white, by a long shot).  
 

My assumption from the video is this—if the situation and conditions were exactly the same, but the subject looked like my 21 year old son, the result is the same.  The police do not pat him on the back, do not apologize for bothering him, and when he attempts to flee, they do not stand back and marvel at the spunk and chutzpah of the young man as he drives away. 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.

 

BINGO!!!   The three cases in Wisconsin in the last year (Floyd in Minneapolis, Blake in Kenosha, Wright in Brooklyn Center) were NOT LEOs confronting armed men fleeing a shooting or something.   Blake and Wright were traffic stops and Floyd was stopped because of a complaint about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.  In Virginia, Army LT Caron Nazario was threatened and pepper sprayed in a traffic stop.   Those are just some of high profile cases in the last year.

 

Police are NOT treating white Americans the same way as they treat black Americans in traffic stops.  That's the striking thing about these incidents in the last year.  The incidents -- and the others that happened just in the last year that I haven't mentioned -- have all stemmed from traffic stops or petty crimes that the police escalated when they had other options. 

 

No amount of "liberal media bias" could possibly suppress news about the police regularly confronting white men during traffic stops with the excessive and too often deadly force that they confront black men.   White people wouldn't stand for it.  White politicians wouldn't stand for it.  

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

27 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

BINGO!!!   The three cases in Wisconsin in the last year (Floyd in Minneapolis, Blake in Kenosha, Wright in Brooklyn Center) were NOT LEOs confronting armed men fleeing a shooting or something.   Blake and Wright were traffic stops and Floyd was stopped because of a complaint about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.  In Virginia, Army LT Caron Nazario was threatened and pepper sprayed in a traffic stop.   Those are just some of high profile cases in the last year.

 

Police are NOT treating white Americans the same way as they treat black Americans in traffic stops.  That's the striking thing about these incidents in the last year.  The incidents -- and the others that happened just in the last year that I haven't mentioned -- have all stemmed from traffic stops or petty crimes that the police escalated when they had other options. 

 

No amount of "liberal media bias" could possibly suppress news about the police regularly confronting white men during traffic stops with the excessive and too often deadly force that they confront black men.   White people wouldn't stand for it.  White politicians wouldn't stand for it.  

 

There are two sides to this coin when it comes to police encounters.  People, including whites, that engage in confrontations with the police during encounters or traffic stops suffer the same fate.  Maybe people that cooperate with the police when they get stopped, don't engage in physical confrontations, and don't have outstanding arrest warrants don't end up getting injured or shot.   Maybe we should consider the concept of assigning some responsibility to the suspect rather than the innocent victim model which has become the popular view?  I've been stopped by the cops about a dozen times in my life and my first thought is to make sure I come out of it alive. 

 

If you want to suggest we can ever develop some kind of policing model where the margin of error in the population of all traffic stops is zero then that's not possible.  No system or process has a zero error rate.  Anywhere.

Edited April 14, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Unforgiven]

     Before I go full postal starting a new 'can we talk about' thread,  the elephant in the room

should be addressed.  Maybe, and I'm just throwing stuff out there, maybe people should stop

committing crimes and stop resisting arrest or fleeing when confronted by the police?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Unforgiven

[Tiberius]

Doesn't a police hand gun have a safety on it that has to be hit before they can fire? 

3 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

     Before I go full postal starting a new 'can we talk about' thread,  the elephant in the room

should be addressed.  Maybe, and I'm just throwing stuff out there, maybe people should stop

committing crimes and stop resisting arrest or fleeing when confronted by the police?

So its ok if cops just execute anyone that runs? 

[LeviF]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

2.  Over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by minorities.  Can you explain this?  Shouldn't it be more proportionate?

 

 

Anyone who talks about disproportionality in police shootings with regard to race who doesn't also mention this well-documented fact (not to mention homicides of police officers) is being deliberately deceptive in the interest of maintaining a narrative.  They really aren't worth engaging with on any significant level.

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Doesn't a police hand gun have a safety on it that has to be hit before they can fire? 

 

 

Not if they carry a Glock.  No external safety.

[Tiberius]

Just now, LeviF91 said:

 

Anyone who talks about disproportionality in police shootings with regard to race who doesn't also mention this well-documented fact (not to mention homicides of police officers) is being deliberately deceptive in the interest of maintaining a narrative.  They really aren't worth engaging with on any significant level.

 

Not if they carry a Glock.  No external safety.

Well, that's not right. 

[LeviF]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Well, that's not right. 

 

Frankly I'm not sure how an external safety would help anyway.  Cops that carry handguns with external safeties are trained to switch it to "fire" from "safe" during the draw.  If your gun is out of the holster it should be ready to fire.  Even drawing down is considered use of force and needs to be justified as such.  If you're drawing your firearm and not switching the safety to "fire" you're essentially using your gun as a threat instead of what it is: a deadly weapon.

[SoCal Deek]

What is this discussion even about? Do you all really think that every single Minnesota police officer hasn’t been through an entire year of nearly daily training, about race relations and arrest procedures following George Floyd, and all that followed? Really? Come on people! 

So what’s the solution? How about stop resisting arrest when officers are putting you in handcuffs?! When does the general public get some training?!!!

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What is this discussion even about? Do you all really think that every single Minnesota police officer hasn’t been through an entire year of nearly daily training, about race relations and arrest procedures following George Floyd, and all that followed? Really? Come on people! 

So what’s the solution? How about stop resisting arrest when officers are putting you in handcuffs?! When does the general public get some training?!!!

I agree , but again what the black community sees is that even if they did just comply they might still get shot.  I might think that’s crazy but I’m not black.  If you or I drive a car where the license plate isn’t visible we get pulled over, the police see it in the window and tell us to have a nice day.  The black soldier the other day has guns pointed at him.  
 

Go spoil the new grandchild!

[LeviF]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

What is this discussion even about? Do you all really think that every single Minnesota police officer hasn’t been through an entire year of nearly daily training, about race relations and arrest procedures following George Floyd, and all that followed? Really? Come on people! 

So what’s the solution? How about stop resisting arrest when officers are putting you in handcuffs?! When does the general public get some training?!!!

 

Of the 1000 people killed by police officers every year, an extremely small fraction of those are unjustified.  Daunte Wright is one of about five black men who get killed without justification by a police officer per year.  Basically the odds of being struck by lightning. 

 

It's impossible to "do better" in this regard.  It's down to the level of a freakish act of nature.  And yet it's the core justification for overturning the way our criminal justice system works.  The "progressive" movement isn't one of science or facts - it's one of emotional manipulation.  Which is why it's working.

 

When local police are abolished or defunded, they won't be replaced by social workers.  This is a bait and switch.  Local police will be replaced by national goon squads that bully normal people over what we would consider trivial stuff.  This is what the progressive movement actually wants, because local police and sheriff's departments are some of the last institutions that wield violence outside of the national regime's control.  The regime doesn't actually want to prevent police shootings, they want to employ them against their chosen targets.  

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, LeviF91 said:

 

Of the 1000 people killed by police officers every year, an extremely small fraction of those are unjustified.  Daunte Wright is one of about five black men who get killed without justification by a police officer per year.  Basically the odds of being struck by lightning. 

 

It's impossible to "do better" in this regard.  It's down to the level of a freakish act of nature.  And yet it's the core justification for overturning the way our criminal justice system works.  The "progressive" movement isn't one of science or facts - it's one of emotional manipulation.  Which is why it's working.

 

When local police are abolished or defunded, they won't be replaced by social workers.  This is a bait and switch.  Local police will be replaced by national goon squads that bully normal people over what we would consider trivial stuff.  This is what the progressive movement actually wants, because local police and sheriff's departments are some of the last institutions that wield violence outside of the national regime's control.  The regime doesn't actually want to prevent police shootings, they want to employ them against their chosen targets.  

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

[aristocrat]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

 

and who is responsible for those laws?  your boy joe biden.  congrats

[SoCal Deek]

54 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

And what does any of that have to do with this incident? Answer: NOTHING!

Edited April 14, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Secession is imminent.  

 

I'm good with it.  

 

What the hell do people think the logical conclusion of this leftist insanity is? 

 

 

Meanwhile 

 

 

There's a lack of trust. Most people on this board either lived through the Civil Rights movement or their parents did. It wasn't very long ago black people were targets. There is a trauma there. It's not something you can just say forget about. 

 

There is systemic racism that is slowly dying off, very slowly. The rise of social media has added gasoline to the issues that remain. It's going to take generations to die off before black people can trust those in law enforcement. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

 

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And what does any of that have to do with this incident? Answer: NOTHING!

Link to FBI statistics for 2018 arrests by racial classification.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/table-43