Daunte Wright Shooting

[LeviF]

5 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

Wait... what?  😂

Homicide, waaayyyy over policed man. Legalize it!

[Backintheday544]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The trouble with your analysis is thinking the real world works according to “ the numbers” . Numbers don’t account for cultural differences between demographic groups. Numbers don’t commit crimes, nor do they respond to interactions with police in different ways. They’re just numbers. Certain groups commit more crimes, so data will be skewed certain ways because of that. Expecting things to play out relative to population makeup is seriously flawed. 

 

And that’s the point I was making in over policing to the other person. Looking at violent crimes by race ignores things like police per capita and unconscious bias.

 

Yes strict numbers for population under a bell curve ignore things like unconscious bias and other factors. We see over policing in cities which lead to more arrests in cities which are predominantly non-black to a suburb. I’ve seen people get arrested in a city for a DUI and a person in a suburb (more rural area) just get driven home.
 

With everything that has happened the past 5-8 years we also see a growing distrust of cops from non-white populations which would change their interactions with cops. That builds and can also cause the disproportionate response. 

21 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

Yeah, that silly crime of forcible rape is really over policed. 

 

“I don’t say ‘that’s racist’ but that’s racist!”

Ever heard of the National Crime Victimization Survey?

 

Oh, and you’re a ***** idiot. 

Hop into the Matt Gaetz thread and see the rights defense of statutory rape.  Under the National Criminal Vicimization Survey Gaetz and Kavanaugh are rapists. Do you agree with that or do you think that survey is flawed?

[LeviF]

3 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

And that’s the point I was making in over policing to the other person. Looking at violent crimes by race ignores things like police per capita and unconscious bias.

 

Yes strict numbers for population under a bell curve ignore things like unconscious bias and other factors. We see over policing in cities which lead to more arrests in cities which are predominantly non-black to a suburb. I’ve seen people get arrested in a city for a DUI and a person in a suburb (more rural area) just get driven home.
 

With everything that has happened the past 5-8 years we also see a growing distrust of cops from non-white populations which would change their interactions with cops. That builds and can also cause the disproportionate response. 

Hop into the Matt Gaetz thread and see the rights defense of statutory rape.  Under the National Criminal Vicimization Survey Gaetz and Kavanaugh are rapists. Do you agree with that or do you think that survey is flawed?

I don’t know about Gaetz and Kavanaugh but statutory is still rape, still a crime, and absolutely should be categorized as such, complete with registration. 
 

Frankly I’m not that interested in what the right and left and up and down have to say about it. Ignore the confidence in the stats all you want, but you won’t find solutions until you acknowledge the problems. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

And that’s the point I was making in over policing to the other person. Looking at violent crimes by race ignores things like police per capita and unconscious bias.

 

Yes strict numbers for population under a bell curve ignore things like unconscious bias and other factors. We see over policing in cities which lead to more arrests in cities which are predominantly non-black to a suburb. I’ve seen people get arrested in a city for a DUI and a person in a suburb (more rural area) just get driven home.
 

With everything that has happened the past 5-8 years we also see a growing distrust of cops from non-white populations which would change their interactions with cops. That builds and can also cause the disproportionate response. 

The anti cop attitude is definitely being fostered by the biased media and their activism / political agenda. People from some cultural backgrounds tend to go along with it more than others . Anecdotal evidence about getting a ride home from a cop means zilch. Folks in cities have probably had that happen too. How one interacts with a cop can influence how things go on occasion. Unconscious bias is the new buzzword, but it’s another lie. There is something we used to call  “ street smarts” and cops need to use it for sure. Ask folks in crime ridden neighborhoods who had a child, grandchild etc fall prey to a criminal with a handgun that’s waiting for an arrest and justice for their family if their area is “ overpoliced “. 

[oldmanfan]

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.

[Backintheday544]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The anti cop attitude is definitely being fostered by the biased media and their activism / political agenda. People from some cultural backgrounds tend to go along with it more than others . Anecdotal evidence about getting a ride home from a cop means zilch. Folks in cities have probably had that happen too. How one interacts with a cop can influence how things go on occasion. Unconscious bias is the new buzzword, but it’s another lie. There is something we used to call  “ street smarts” and cops need to use it for sure. Ask folks in crime ridden neighborhoods who had a child, grandchild etc fall prey to a criminal with a handgun that’s waiting for an arrest and justice for their family if their area is “ overpoliced “. 

To address your issues in order:

 

1) Anti-cop attitude is the media - If the media didn’t report on it and the public doesn’t know about it is that better? Like if we just didn’t know Floyd was murdered because the media didn’t say is that better? Plus seems like a 1st amendment issue.

 

2) Yea it’s anecdotal.

 

3) How one interacts with a cop has a huge effect on how your interaction with a cop will go. How you interact with a cop though right now does have a racial bias that isn’t not warranted (double negative I know)

 

4) Unconscious bias is a buzz word but i find it to be true (but I do line 10 unconscious bias classes a year)

 

5) unconscious bias could be a buzz word but I think part of that is Napoleon complex as well which I’ve never met a cop without it. 
 

6) Again, crime ridden neighborhood what is that? Would stats change if you had the same numbers of cops in Elma as Downtown Buffalo? 

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.

Well, most departments procedure will call for using other methods before putting an officers hands on an individual . Physical man on man contact is a last resort. The taser was called for here once the subject decided to resist arrest. He’d certainly be alive today if he hadn’t. Tasers can look and feel very similar to a service weapon, and this type of errror is not the first of its kind. 
As for fear, it’s unwarranted. If the subject complies, there is almost no chance of harm. Fear is stoked by media activism and politicians with radical agendas, not grounded in reality. Arrests occur without inflicted harm every single day 
  

[LeviF]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Well, most departments procedure will call for using other methods before putting an officers hands on an individual . Physical man on man contact is a last resort. 
  

You do realize that placing handcuffs on someone is physical man on man contact, right?

 

It doesn’t have to be violent but that’s what it is. And it’s also the point at which the situation is most likely to go south. And when that happens you’re too close for a taser to be effective. You got hands and feet and your body weight and fighting know-how at that point. 

[Backintheday544]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Well, most departments procedure will call for using other methods before putting an officers hands on an individual . Physical man on man contact is a last resort. The taser was called for here once the subject decided to resist arrest. He’d certainly be alive today if he hadn’t. Tasers can look and feel very similar to a service weapon, and this type of errror is not the first of its kind. 
As for fear, it’s unwarranted. If the subject complies, there is almost no chance of harm. Fear is stoked by media activism and politicians with radical agendas, not grounded in reality. Arrests occur without inflicted harm every single day 
  

Why blame the media who reports the cops who shoot instead of the cops who shoot?

Why can’t we blame the cops? We saw good reason before : 

When you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over, like, don't hit their head and they've just killed somebody. Don't hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?”

There was a pause after Trump’s delivery, and then the officers behind him began to clap and cheer.

 

There does need to be a balance. The media can’t just ignore it then the cops will do whatever the hell they want.

[TSOL]

She mistook her glock for this 

[Boatdrinks]

8 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

To address your issues in order:

 

1) Anti-cop attitude is the media - If the media didn’t report on it and the public doesn’t know about it is that better? Like if we just didn’t know Floyd was murdered because the media didn’t say is that better? Plus seems like a 1st amendment issue.

 

2) Yea it’s anecdotal.

 

3) How one interacts with a cop has a huge effect on how your interaction with a cop will go. How you interact with a cop though right now does have a racial bias that isn’t not warranted (double negative I know)

 

4) Unconscious bias is a buzz word but i find it to be true (but I do line 10 unconscious bias classes a year)

 

5) unconscious bias could be a buzz word but I think part of that is Napoleon complex as well which I’ve never met a cop without it. 
 

6) Again, crime ridden neighborhood what is that? Would stats change if you had the same numbers of cops in Elma as Downtown Buffalo? 

What the mainstream media doesn’t report is more important than what they do. I’ve yet to see major coverage on a Caucasian shot ( though I admit my dabbles with msm are now limited to occasional local news shows. Gave up on the rest awhile ago but I would hear about it elsewhere if it was covered. Usually limited to specific scenarios Example : the Denver shooting story went away quickly when they determined the shooter wasn’t white. Same with the driver that killed the Capitol officer. Remember, Tim McVeigh was apprehended they a simple traffic stop. 
 

Unconscious bias: yeah no. Everyone analyzes situations and their surroundings. As a general rule, I let someone prove to me that they’re an A@&hole before I assume they are one   
 

 A crime ridden neighborhood is just what it sounds like. If you deployed a huge number of Cops to Elma you’d have very little to keep them busy. Maybe a few more speeding tickets than usual but that’s small potatoes. When was the last drive by shooting in Elma? The last gang involved murder? 

14 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

You do realize that placing handcuffs on someone is physical man on man contact, right?

 

It doesn’t have to be violent but that’s what it is. And it’s also the point at which the situation is most likely to go south. And when that happens you’re too close for a taser to be effective. You got hands and feet and your body weight and fighting know-how at that point. 

Well of course it is, but I’ve yet to see a subject cuff themselves. Some things just require physical contact. A confrontational subject that needs to be subdued should be handled by means that don’t often result in an injured officer. Like a taser 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.I fear all hope is lost.  

 

Serious question—when was the last time you started your day and your only goal was to get through it at work, stop at your favorite pizzeria on the way home so you could sit with your wife and watch Season 4 episode 3 of Longmire on Netflix?   And when was that plan last derailed a person you have never met before, doing the unexpected and physical, absolutely 100% committed to not going with you and you weren’t sure whether he was on drugs, going for a weapon and or about to drive off and hit a school bus full of children, or a mom running her youngest child off to school because the child refused to put  her new shoes on and catch the bus.  And when was the last time you thought to yourself—-STOP, we can just subdue this unknown party intent on doing something other than complying by engaging in hand to hand physical contact because when we do, no bones will crack, no ACLs will be torn, no teeth will be knocked out, no cuts will be opened even though this guy is 15 years younger than the rest of us and full of adrenaline with likely far more stamina than the three of us combined.  
 

The second best thing that could have happened to this young man was that the officer actually tased him and put the incident to bed.  The first was that he could have complied and no lives would have been lost or ruined.   
 

Training is always an answer and never a bad idea.   Unfortunately, when people are involved, sometimes dumb, bad ***** just happens across the board and the result is tragic.  

[Backintheday544]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

What the mainstream media doesn’t report is more important than what they do. I’ve yet to see major coverage on a Caucasian shot ( though I admit my dabbles with msm are now limited to occasional local news shows. Gave up on the rest awhile ago but I would hear about it elsewhere if it was covered. Usually limited to specific scenarios Example : the Denver shooting story went away quickly when they determined the shooter wasn’t white. Same with the driver that killed the Capitol officer. Remember, Tim McVeigh was apprehended they a simple traffic stop. 
 

Unconscious bias: yeah no. Everyone analyzes situations and their surroundings. As a general rule, I let someone prove to me that they’re an A@&hole before I assume they are one   
 

 A crime ridden neighborhood is just what it sounds like. If you deployed a huge number of Cops to Elma you’d have very little to keep them busy. Maybe a few more speeding tickets than usual but that’s small potatoes. When was the last drive by shooting in Elma? The last gang involved murder? 

I stay away from TV s much as I can. I’m a nerd and right now my DLNA is doing Real Ghostbusters.

 

Denver did stick around a bit. I’m in DC and that did too. I feel if public reaction keeps the story around it stays around. Floyd protests kept the story around because they were huge around the country and kept being news.

 

You let someone control how you feel about them. But what about a person you interact with like 2 mins. Like an arrest. You have 2 mins to determine how you feel and your reaction. It’s not alike a co-worker you ha e multiple attempts to get to know. This is a one time person you’ve never met that you at times get a short time to get to know.

Yes there is less drive by shootings in Elma. But do you think there is less say drug crimes per capita in Elma than Buffalo? Why aren’t the cops in Elma enforcing drug crimes as tough as they do in downtown Buffalo?

Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

Serious question—when was the last time you started your day and your only goal was to get through it at work, stop at your favorite pizzeria on the way home so you could sit with your wife and watch Season 4 episode 3 of Longmire on Netflix?   And when was that plan last derailed a person you have never met before, doing the unexpected and physical, absolutely 100% committed to not going with you and you weren’t sure whether he was on drugs, going for a weapon and or about to drive off and hit a school bus full of children, or a mom running her youngest child off to school because the child refused to put  her new shoes on and catch the bus.  And when was the last time you thought to yourself—-STOP, we can just subdue this unknown party intent on doing something other than complying by engaging in hand to hand physical contact because when we do, no bones will crack, no ACLs will be torn, no teeth will be knocked out, no cuts will be opened even though this guy is 15 years younger than the rest of us and full of adrenaline with likely far more stamina than the three of us combined.  
 

The second best thing that could have happened to this young man was that the officer actually tased him and put the incident to bed.  The first was that he could have complied and no lives would have been lost or ruined.   
 

Training is always an answer and never a bad idea.   Unfortunately, when people are involved, sometimes dumb, bad ***** just happens across the board and the result is tragic.  

this is a serious question but what is Longmire and should I watch?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said:

I stay away from TV s much as I can. I’m a nerd and right now my DLNA is doing Real Ghostbusters.

 

Denver did stick around a bit. I’m in DC and that did too. I feel if public reaction keeps the story around it stays around. Floyd protests kept the story around because they were huge around the country and kept being news.

 

You let someone control how you feel about them. But what about a person you interact with like 2 mins. Like an arrest. You have 2 mins to determine how you feel and your reaction. It’s not alike a co-worker you ha e multiple attempts to get to know. This is a one time person you’ve never met that you at times get a short time to get to know.

Yes there is less drive by shootings in Elma. But do you think there is less say drug crimes per capita in Elma than Buffalo? Why aren’t the cops in Elma enforcing drug crimes as tough as they do in downtown Buffalo?

this is a serious question but what is Longmire and should I watch?

Cop show, Netflix, based in Wyoming, centered around a county near a reservation.  My wife and I have been watching it of late, lead character looks like Clint Eastwood. It’s a fun show, predictable in many cases, but don’t you dare  tell me for a second that Opsaoka County in Wyoming doesn’t lead the frigging world in violent death.  🤣

[Backintheday544]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Cop show, Netflix, based in Wyoming, centered around a county near a reservation.  My wife and I have been watching it of late, lead character looks like Clint Eastwood. It’s a fun show, predictable in many cases, but don’t you dare  tell me for a second that Opsaoka County in Wyoming doesn’t lead the frigging world in violent death.  🤣

Sounds like the Costner show I’m putting off, Yellowstone?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said:

Sounds like the Costner show I’m putting off, Yellowstone?

Honestly, I’m running out of $&$& and desire to watch these days so I’m not sure what that’s all about.  I recall seeing that advertised a while back, and I’d say odds are it’s pretty close.   

[Boatdrinks]

18 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

I stay away from TV s much as I can. I’m a nerd and right now my DLNA is doing Real Ghostbusters.

 

Denver did stick around a bit. I’m in DC and that did too. I feel if public reaction keeps the story around it stays around. Floyd protests kept the story around because they were huge around the country and kept being news.

 

You let someone control how you feel about them. But what about a person you interact with like 2 mins. Like an arrest. You have 2 mins to determine how you feel and your reaction. It’s not alike a co-worker you ha e multiple attempts to get to know. This is a one time person you’ve never met that you at times get a short time to get to know.

Yes there is less drive by shootings in Elma. But do you think there is less say drug crimes per capita in Elma than Buffalo? Why aren’t the cops in Elma enforcing drug crimes as tough as they do in downtown Buffalo?

The public reaction is influenced by the coverage. It’s often deliberately misleading to create the reaction. For political agenda purposes and because it draws viewers. Mainstream public reaction is often wrong imo. 

 

Yes, when you have a minute or two to size up a subject and a situation, street smarts and experience are vitally important. 

 

Its tough to tell with drug crimes, because they’re easily concealed. Per capita, there may be fewer in Elma but not necessarily. Lots of folks use recreational drugs these days. People from all kinds of backgrounds and socio economic strata. If the subject is careful, they can easily avoid being caught.  Let’s take a subject in a vehicle, for example. If they’ve got no issues with the car from a legal standpoint ( clean tags mounted properly, proper inspection/ registration, no lights out etc they’re unlikely to be noticed unless they’re speeding. If they live in a town like Elma with low levels of street crime or a town without a large force they’re also unlikely to come in close contact with a cop. Some subjects take great care to conceal any trace of their drug use, especially in a vehicle. Other folks aren’t nearly as careful. New Marijuana laws will have a large effect on this going forward as well. Many gun charges originate with a simple traffic stop, leading to a search due to the smell of marijuana. Handgun issues are going to get worse and murders in the city will continue to rise as a result. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Boatdrinks

[Backintheday544]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Honestly, I’m running out of $&$& and desire to watch these days so I’m not sure what that’s all about.  I recall seeing that advertised a while back, and I’d say odds are it’s pretty close.   

I feel the same way. YouTube has been a go to for just noise in the background.

[Boatdrinks]

32 minutes ago, TSOL said:

She mistook her glock for this 

The feel may be similar, but not the look. Her eyes were probably on the subject and not her weapon. She clearly yelled tase. No evidence she knew she had drawn the gun. Seems like error. 

[Backintheday544]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The public reaction is influenced by the coverage. It’s often deliberately misleading to create the reaction. For political agenda purposes and because it draws viewers. Mainstream public reaction is often wrong imo. 

 

Yes, when you have a minute or two to size up a subject and a situation, street smarts and experience are vitally important. 

 

Its tough to tell with drug crimes, because they’re easily concealed. Per capita, there may be fewer in Elma but not necessarily. Lots of folks use recreational drugs these days. People from all kinds of backgrounds and socio economic strata. If the subject is careful, they can easily avoid being caught.  Let’s take a subject in a vehicle, for example. If they’ve got no issues with the car from a legal standpoint ( clean tags mounted properly, proper inspection/ registration, no lights out etc they’re unlikely to be noticed unless they’re speeding. If they live in a town like Elma with low levels of street crime or a town without a large force they’re also unlikely to come in close contact with a cop. Some subjects take great care to conceal any trace of their drug use, especially in a vehicle. Other folks aren’t nearly as careful. New Marijuana laws will have a large effect on this going forward as well. Many gun charges originate with a simple traffic stop, leading to a search due to the smell of marijuana. Handgun issues are going to get worse and murders in the city will continue to rise as a result. 

we can agree a change in marijuana laws will help a ton.