SoCal Deek Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Doc said: This goes back to not wanting to blame the victim. But at some point it needs to be said that if you resist arrest, this is what can happen. I get that black people are afraid and/or distrustful of cops, but I would think that ending up dead is probably their biggest fear. So I’m not sure why they engage in confrontations like this and why nobody says anything about it, as if resisting arrest is what they should and/or have a right to do. Come on Doc! Don’t you dare go stating the obvious now. That’s not allowed in America anymore. There are literally hundreds, probably thousands, of peaceful interactions between police and black men every day. I know that police get training by their supervisors. Do young black men get similar training by theirs? Just do want the officer tells you to do! Geez
Doc Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Come on Doc! Don’t you dare go stating the obvious now. That’s not allowed in America anymore. There are literally hundreds, probably thousands, of peaceful interactions between police and black men every day. I know that police get training by their supervisors. Do young black men get similar training by theirs? Just do want the officer tells you to do! Geez I was working with a G.I. doctor last week who is Jewish and a big Democrat and CNN (he puts it on) was on in the kitchen and they were talking about the Chauvin trial. I said “I don’t know what the officer was thinking” and he said “this could happen to you or me.” I said “no it wouldn’t, because we wouldn’t resist arrest.” He had no choice but to agree with me.
Orlando Buffalo Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 38 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I agree in part. But I am also not a black man. And from speaking to those who are, they feel that even if they do so they are in danger. You and I may not agree with that, but I don't walk in their shoes. I look at this latest incident and compare it to six months ago when I was pulled over for not having a front headlight working. The policeman walked up to my car window. kindly informed me that I had a light out, and I thanked him and told him I'd get it fixed. He thanked me and we were done. Would that same encounter happened if I were black? I don't know. I do know friends of my daughter that are black report being followed and/or pulled over for no reason. So your argument is that due to the bad intentions of cops you should give them reasons to shoot you? Speak to people from the old soviet block, where cops were untouchable, and the people all did as told and gave no guff to cops EVER. I am aware that there is issues for black people especially in large city areas, but that is not what is causing these guys to be shot.
Tenhigh Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: This incident defines the word tragedy. To the larger issue, there is simply no trust on either side anymore. The black community has no trust in the police; they feel they are at risk every time they encounter a policeman. And the police have no trust that they won't get ambushed. I don't know how you get trust back. I think a good start would be to try and recruit more blacks into urban police forces, and not just as token hires.
Doc Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: I think a good start would be to try and recruit more blacks into urban police forces, and not just as token hires. They have been.
Chef Jim Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I agree in part. But I am also not a black man. And from speaking to those who are, they feel that even if they do so they are in danger. You and I may not agree with that, but I don't walk in their shoes. I look at this latest incident and compare it to six months ago when I was pulled over for not having a front headlight working. The policeman walked up to my car window. kindly informed me that I had a light out, and I thanked him and told him I'd get it fixed. He thanked me and we were done. Would that same encounter happened if I were black? I don't know. I do know friends of my daughter that are black report being followed and/or pulled over for no reason. I'm pretty sure the same would have happened had you been black. Almost all of these incidents (I won't take your third hand anecdotes from your daughter) have happened due to the person either having warrants out for their arrest and/or not complying with officers or worse running. 50 minutes ago, Doc said: I was working with a G.I. doctor last week who is Jewish and a big Democrat and CNN (he puts it on) was on in the kitchen and they were talking about the Chauvin trial. I said “I don’t know what the officer was thinking” and he said “this could happen to you or me.” I said “no it wouldn’t, because we wouldn’t resist arrest.” He had no choice but to agree with me. I'm surprised he didn't come back with "well yeah....you're white" And that is an assumption on my part that you are.
SoCal Deek Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: I think a good start would be to try and recruit more blacks into urban police forces, and not just as token hires. What? The officer standing right next to the car is BLACK!!
Chef Jim Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Doc said: They have been. That reminds me of Attica Prison in the 70's. I grew up not far from there and my dad's restaurant was in the town of Attica and I worked there and fed lots of CO's. The guards went on strike and they brought in the National Guard to work the prison. The word was that the inmates were so happy because the National Guardsmen were actually interested in them. Learning their story. That was then they made a push to hire more CO's of color from outside the local area. 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: What? The officer standing right next to the car is BLACK!! He was a "token" hire.
Tenhigh Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: What? The officer standing right next to the car is BLACK!! That's one, and specific to this incident. My response was in general to what can be done to fix the relationship between the black community and the police. You don't think that would help? 25 minutes ago, Doc said: They have been. Maybe I should have said "successfully hire", lol.
oldmanfan Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 36 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: I'm pretty sure the same would have happened had you been black. Almost all of these incidents (I won't take your third hand anecdotes from your daughter) have happened due to the person either having warrants out for their arrest and/or not complying with officers or worse running. I'm surprised he didn't come back with "well yeah....you're white" And that is an assumption on my part that you are. Well, here's a first person account. I have black friends whom I've talked with about this issue, and they also report being followed and such. I try to put myself in the other person's shoes, and not try to suggest they don't have different shoes.
Chef Jim Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Well, here's a first person account. I have black friends whom I've talked with about this issue, and they also report being followed and such. I try to put myself in the other person's shoes, and not try to suggest they don't have different shoes. Of course. I'm huge with empathy. And being followed? Sure they are not paranoid? If they are they may be have good reason for their paranoia but that isn't necessarily a reflection of the officers who are "following" him wouldn't you agree? Edited April 16, 2021 by Chef Jim
oldmanfan Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Of course. I'm huge with empathy. And being followed? Sure they are not paranoid? If they are they may be have good reason for their paranoia but that isn't necessarily a reflection of the officers who are "following" him wouldn't you agree? No. Because the people I talk to are just driving along in my town, and get pulled over for no reason. Again, I am not a black man. Black men and women have a different perspective. So do the police. It would behoove everyone in our society to step back and look at things from another's perspective. If I'm a police officer I am worried every night I go out on shift if I'm coming back home the next day. If you talk to back men and women, they say the same thing when they or their child goes out that night. 1
Chef Jim Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: No. Because the people I talk to are just driving along in my town, and get pulled over for no reason. Again, I am not a black man. Black men and women have a different perspective. So do the police. It would behoove everyone in our society to step back and look at things from another's perspective. If I'm a police officer I am worried every night I go out on shift if I'm coming back home the next day. If you talk to back men and women, they say the same thing when they or their child goes out that night. Wait. Are they being followed or being pulled over? Your changing of your story is a bit suspicious.
Doc Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: I'm surprised he didn't come back with "well yeah....you're white" And that is an assumption on my part that you are. i’m actually not. I am a 1st gen Indian-American. So I have the nice tan going all the time but no accent. Although now that you mention it, I was talking to my neighbor (who I’ve lived next to for the last 20 years) the other day and in the course of a conversation not about race at all said “you’re a white guy.” I found that funny. 1 hour ago, Tenhigh said: That's one, and specific to this incident. My response was in general to what can be done to fix the relationship between the black community and the police. You don't think that would help? Maybe I should have said "successfully hire", lol. You can’t make them apply. Just like the Bills can’t just go out and sign any player they want. Edited April 16, 2021 by Doc
oldmanfan Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Wait. Are they being followed or being pulled over? Your changing of your story is a bit suspicious. Both. I have been told both. Black folks are scared of the police; police are scared too. That situation needs to be fixed and that's what should be focused on. I have been pulled over maybe half a dozen times in my life, a few times for speeding, a couple times for something wrong with my car, a couple times because I was late updating my registration sticker. In each case, I had one police officer pull me over, come up to my window (which I had already rolled down, and ask me for my license and registration if needed, or to tell me what was wrong with my car. Not one time in such a stop have I ever had a police officer order to me to exit my car or get loud with me. each interaction was pleasant and we each were polite with each other, even when I thought I didn't deserve a ticket. If you look at the incident the other day, either for the soldier who did not have a license plate showing (which he did upon further examination) in the one in Minneapolis, there were multiple police officers who showed up, and the individuals were ordered out of their cars for something that have not have. The question is why. Why are the police scared in such situations, and why are blacks scared to comply? Rather than talking past each other, real conversations need to take place. I am a big proponent of law and order. The problem isn't the law part, it's the order part that has to be worked on.
Doc Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Both. I have been told both. Black folks are scared of the police; police are scared too. That situation needs to be fixed and that's what should be focused on. I believe what you’re hearing. But again resisting arrest/making threatening actions only makes things worse, and it doesn’t matter your skin color. Expecting only one side to change will never work.
Chef Jim Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Both. I have been told both. Black folks are scared of the police; police are scared too. That situation needs to be fixed and that's what should be focused on. I have been pulled over maybe half a dozen times in my life, a few times for speeding, a couple times for something wrong with my car, a couple times because I was late updating my registration sticker. In each case, I had one police officer pull me over, come up to my window (which I had already rolled down, and ask me for my license and registration if needed, or to tell me what was wrong with my car. Not one time in such a stop have I ever had a police officer order to me to exit my car or get loud with me. each interaction was pleasant and we each were polite with each other, even when I thought I didn't deserve a ticket. If you look at the incident the other day, either for the soldier who did not have a license plate showing (which he did upon further examination) in the one in Minneapolis, there were multiple police officers who showed up, and the individuals were ordered out of their cars for something that have not have. The question is why. Why are the police scared in such situations, and why are blacks scared to comply? Rather than talking past each other, real conversations need to take place. I am a big proponent of law and order. The problem isn't the law part, it's the order part that has to be worked on. Couple things. 1. You were polite and did as you were told. Did not exit your car unless asked to and I don't think you had any outstanding warrants. 2. Duane Wright has a warrant out for his arrest. The warrant was for aggravated armed robbery. He also appeared to resist. Do you see the difference?
Tenhigh Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 41 minutes ago, Doc said: You can’t make them apply. Just like the Bills can’t just go out and sign any player they want. True, and if an organization BLM really wants to fix the problem they would try and get more blacks in law enforcement. 1
T&C Posted April 16, 2021 Author Posted April 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Chef Jim said: That reminds me of Attica Prison in the 70's. I grew up not far from there and my dad's restaurant was in the town of Attica and I worked there and fed lots of CO's. The guards went on strike and they brought in the National Guard to work the prison. The word was that the inmates were so happy because the National Guardsmen were actually interested in them. Learning their story. That was then they made a push to hire more CO's of color from outside the local area. He was a "token" hire. Same here, I know that town inside and out... graduated from HS there. Meisners, Nino's... Attica Hotel? Surely you remember the T&C just outside of town on the shortcut to Darien. Wonder if the Tip is still there, right across from the Prison.
Chef Jim Posted April 16, 2021 Posted April 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, T&C said: Same here, I know that town inside and out... graduated from HS there. Meisners, Nino's... Attica Hotel? Surely you remember the T&C just outside of town on the shortcut to Darien. Wonder if the Tip is still there, right across from the Prison. Dude! I know all those places. The Tip has been gone for a very LONG time. I'll PM you.
Recommended Posts