glazeduck Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 I posted yesterday that I thought he'd probably be the next CB taken after Farley and Newsome... I don't have him on my board that high, but I do believe that Buffalo has the luxury of being able to take a guy they can develop through the season with the logic that we're probably looking at a 10 or 11 win season even if we're not drafting immediate difference makers... If those guys can be difference makers by the time the playoffs roll around, it's a risk well worth taking. Meli is raw, but in super rare company when it comes to body type and movement. Not a lot of misses on that list... 2
H2o Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 Meh. He's a great athlete, but so was his brother. I wouldn't use a first on him. 2nd? Ehhhhh, idk. 3rd? Sure. 1 1
Mojo44 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, H2o said: Meh. He's a great athlete, but so was his brother. I wouldn't use a first on him. 2nd? Ehhhhh, idk. 3rd? Sure. He won’t last until the third round. And anything about his brother is completely irrelevant to this topic. I’d love it if he was there for the Bills in the second. 1 2
wppete Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 2nd Round is too high. Would be ok in 3rd or 4th if we trade up. The value isn’t there, better players to be had in the 2nd. 1
H2o Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Mojo44 said: He won’t last until the third round. And anything about his brother is completely irrelevant to this topic. I’d love it if he was there for the Bills in the second. Actually, it is relevant. They are both great athletes who were raw at the position coming out of college. That doesn't always translate to success, the fact you are a great athlete. I'd hate the pick in the 1st and be skeptical in the 2nd. If they use a 3rd or later then I'd be alright with that depending on who else was on the board at the time. 1
NewEra Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 Too bad we won’t know what his 40 time really is. if he’s the pick in rd 2, I wouldn’t be upset. I wouldn’t be happy if he’s the pick at 30 1 1
Mojo44 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, H2o said: Actually, it is relevant. They are both great athletes who were raw at the position coming out of college. That doesn't always translate to success, the fact you are a great athlete. I'd hate the pick in the 1st and be skeptical in the 2nd. If they use a 3rd or later then I'd be alright with that depending on who else was on the board at the time. No, it is irrelevant because their individual players with different skill sets and different mentalities. Here’s one example of many in the history of sports. Tommy Aaron was a decent major league ball player. His brother was Hank. And remember, the bills second round pick is essentially a high third round pick. So I guess we agree to disagree on how good this guy can be. I like him a lot. And, full disclosure here, it’s been many years since I made an effort to be knowledgeable about college players coming out of the draft. But, as a Syracuse fan living in the area, I got to see him quite a bit. His growth has been remarkable since he has been playing. 2
gonzo1105 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said: No, it is irrelevant because their individual players with different skill sets and different mentalities. Here’s one example of many in the history of sports. Tommy Aaron was a decent major league ball player. His brother was Hank. And remember, the bills second round pick is essentially a high third round pick. So I guess we agree to disagree on how good this guy can be. I like him a lot. And, full disclosure here, it’s been many years since I made an effort to be knowledgeable about college players coming out of the draft. But, as a Syracuse fan living in the area, I got to see him quite a bit. His growth has been remarkable since he has been playing. Whether you agree with it or not, a lot of scouts and fans will have that question due to his brother flaming out 1
freddyjj Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, glazeduck said: Not a lot of misses on that list... Henderson was out of NFL in 3 years with only 1 start and 1 Int for the Jets Dean and Okudah are not starters yet. Jones has been meh so far in DAL and MIA So Peanut and Ramsey are the real deal. So 50% hit rate
Mojo44 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: Whether you agree with it or not, a lot of scouts and fans will have that question due to his brother flaming out OK, check this scenario out. Scouts go to his pro day and he checks high and every single box. Based on your evaluation he’s got a second round grade. This includes not only his athletic ability but his intelligence and his motivation to continue to improve. And then you think to yourself, wait a minute, his brother was a good athlete and didn’t pan out. So we better not draft him. On the face of it this scenario is ridiculous as far as any scouts coming to that conclusion. Fans, on the other hand, so what?
gobills404 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 Here's a thread on him with film from 14 different plays. 1 1
gonzo1105 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said: OK, check this scenario out. Scouts go to his pro day and he checks high and every single box. Based on your evaluation he’s got a second round grade. This includes not only his athletic ability but his intelligence and his motivation to continue to improve. And then you think to yourself, wait a minute, his brother was a good athlete and didn’t pan out. So we better not draft him. On the face of it this scenario is ridiculous as far as any scouts coming to that conclusion. Fans, on the other hand, so what? I’m just saying it’s human nature regardless of profession. Obviously someone is going to take a chance pretty high on him for his athletic traits. The question is how high. A team at the beginning of the 2nd round might say man if he hits he’s one of the best DBs in the game and it’s worth a gamble. Another team might say hey to what we know maybe we’ll take another guy here with a higher floor. I think Beane has shown he’ll take high tools guys and hope their developed. I just don’t see the Bills in his range unless they trade down to the mid 2nd round or so
H2o Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mojo44 said: No, it is irrelevant because their individual players with different skill sets and different mentalities. Here’s one example of many in the history of sports. Tommy Aaron was a decent major league ball player. His brother was Hank. And remember, the bills second round pick is essentially a high third round pick. So I guess we agree to disagree on how good this guy can be. I like him a lot. And, full disclosure here, it’s been many years since I made an effort to be knowledgeable about college players coming out of the draft. But, as a Syracuse fan living in the area, I got to see him quite a bit. His growth has been remarkable since he has been playing. Individual players, with similar athletic traits, who seemingly improved throughout their college careers statistically. Obi had more INT's if you look into it where as Ifeatu had more passes defensed. You can like him a lot. That is your view. I am skeptical of the guy for my own reasons. We can agree to disagree.
Mojo44 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: I’m just saying it’s human nature regardless of profession. Obviously someone is going to take a chance pretty high on him for his athletic traits. The question is how high. A team at the beginning of the 2nd round might say man if he hits he’s one of the best DBs in the game and it’s worth a gamble. Another team might say hey to what we know maybe we’ll take another guy here with a higher floor. I think Beane has shown he’ll take high tools guys and hope their developed. I just don’t see the Bills in his range unless they trade down to the mid 2nd round or so OK, short and sweet here. It may be basic human nature but it’s not part of what an NFL scout does. It’s not a scout skill set. Any scout with a modicum of competence will not put the kibosh on a prospect because of what some other guy did or didn’t do. Don’t confuse the opinions and leanings of the man on the street with an NFL scout who has a job to do. So I actually do disagree quite strongly with the believe that an NFL team would not draft this person based on how they assess his overall skill level because of what his brother did.
Motorin' Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 What about the other SU CB, Trill Williams? Will he last until we pick in the 5th?
Reed83HOF Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 I'm becoming more comfortable with him and Asante Jr... I don't see Beane trading back and he likes physical specimens who are tremendous athletes. If they determine the player is coachable, and he has outstanding athletic traits...you can't discount it. 1
YattaOkasan Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Henderson was out of NFL in 3 years with only 1 start and 1 Int for the Jets Dean and Okudah are not starters yet. Jones has been meh so far in DAL and MIA So Peanut and Ramsey are the real deal. So 50% hit rate Dean and Okudah are both pretty early in their careers but have been starters at times. I'm not sure you should mark them as misses. I also think Byron Jones has been a lot more than meh (hes made a pro bowl, has a 55% career completion % allowed). So that would be 2 great, 1 good, 1 bad, and 2 incompletes. I would say 3/4 being good and 50% being great is a really good hit rate. 1
gonzo1105 Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said: OK, short and sweet here. It may be basic human nature but it’s not part of what an NFL scout does. It’s not a scout skill set. Any scout with a modicum of competence will not put the kibosh on a prospect because of what some other guy did or didn’t do. Don’t confuse the opinions and leanings of the man on the street with an NFL scout who has a job to do. So I actually do disagree quite strongly with the believe that an NFL team would not draft this person based on how they assess his overall skill level because of what his brother did. I get your high on the guy but I know 2 Guys who scout in the NFL that I still talk to, guys I used to work with in the football industry and are still employed by their teams. It’s very much apart of the thought process. Maybe not a big part but it is. Shouldn’t be but it is. Just like height and weight shouldn’t be at certain positions but an inch too short and they don’t want you or 20 pounds to light etc. You don’t have to try to convince me every team thinks differently. If the Bills take him I hope they develop him and he turns out great.
DCOrange Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 1st round would be high for him, but I'd be happy with him in the 2nd and I won't be angry if he's the pick in the 1st. There's very few directions they can go that would make me legitimately angry honestly; the team is set up well right now. 1
DCOrange Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Henderson was out of NFL in 3 years with only 1 start and 1 Int for the Jets Dean and Okudah are not starters yet. Jones has been meh so far in DAL and MIA So Peanut and Ramsey are the real deal. So 50% hit rate Jamel Dean is effectively a starter and a good one at that; I believe he graded out as a top 15 corner this year on PFF and the eye test matched that evaluation. Tampa has three good corners. Dean played out wide when they went nickel (which they were in most of the time), but if they started a game in the 3-4, he wasn't credited with the start. Ramsey, Tillman, Jones, and to a lesser extent, Dean are all hits. For the record, I wouldn't be willing to bet on Iffy being a hit, but I do think he's a talented prospect and just pointing out that you're definitely short-changing Dean and Jones. 2
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