Westside Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 37 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: JD Vance, the anti Joe Manchin. Ostensibly a MAGA but really a moderate D, at least on drugs. Manchin won as a D but is really an R. https://www.nbc.com/meet-the-press/video/presidents-should-use-full-power-of-us-military-to-go-after-cartels-full-sen-jd-vance/NBCN528837990 Typical fascist response. 1
B-Man Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 6 hours ago, redtail hawk said: And you think a grifter scotus judge should have more power than the president? How wonderfully unconstitutional of you. Holy mackerel. !! Hawk you are dumber than I thought! You consistently misinterpret every political cartoon. Do yourself a favor and stay quiet in the future 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Westside said: Typical fascist response. Hey, I like what Vance is doing. Don't like that he misrepresented himself for the seat but he's taken some really positive stances.
B-Man Posted July 4, 2023 Posted July 4, 2023 The Best Patriotic American Poems for American Independence Day https://interestingliterature.com/2019/07/the-best-patriotic-american-poems-for-american-independence-day-fourth-of-july-poems/ .
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 4, 2023 Posted July 4, 2023 Have had multiple events with people at house over past few weeks and politics has come up briefly on several occasions and a couple of things that came up that surprised me. 1) people who are "well informed" but only by MSM and NPR did not know that the Hunter laptop was real, several stated it was Disinformation repeatedly until I showed them a liberal source. 2) the more liberal you are the more in favor of Ukraine war and the less you think it has cost us so far. Though to be fair I had a conservative friend who though it was approaching a trillion. 3) the more you hate Trump the less likely you are to care that Joe Biden denies the existence of his grand child in Arkansas, which to me is the most horrendous thing he has done. No discussions have gone too deep because of the events but thought those 3 points were interesting 1
T&C Posted July 4, 2023 Author Posted July 4, 2023 Cocaine https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2023/07/04/suspicious-powder-found-at-the-white-house-when-biden-was-gone-was-cocaine--ap-sources-say
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 4, 2023 Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said: Have had multiple events with people at house over past few weeks and politics has come up briefly on several occasions and a couple of things that came up that surprised me. 1) people who are "well informed" but only by MSM and NPR did not know that the Hunter laptop was real, several stated it was Disinformation repeatedly until I showed them a liberal source. 2) the more liberal you are the more in favor of Ukraine war and the less you think it has cost us so far. Though to be fair I had a conservative friend who though it was approaching a trillion. 3) the more you hate Trump the less likely you are to care that Joe Biden denies the existence of his grand child in Arkansas, which to me is the most horrendous thing he has done. No discussions have gone too deep because of the events but thought those 3 points were interesting I prefer to break things down by defining the battle as a contest between objective thinkers vs. subjective thinkers. And not so much left and right With that in mind I'd like to add a #4. 4) The belief that speech requires regulation and censorship to fight "hate speech". While I accept the concept that some objective criteria can define "hate" its use is currently defined subjectively. Somebody feeling '"threatened" by what you might say is highly subjective yet requires you to be silenced and censored. Threatened in what way? Physically, mentally, emotionally? The issue of subjectivity is observable simply by how one person feeling threatened and others are not. It's an argument consistent with beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There's no defined standard. A nefarious actor could abuse the term "hate" and use it as a weapon to silence others that disagree with their positions rather than out of genuine concern of harm. That's exactly what we see currently when people scream "hate" and are unwilling to articulate and defend their views objectively through the use of reason and logic.
T&C Posted July 5, 2023 Author Posted July 5, 2023 https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2023/07/04/judge-issues-injunction-of-parts-of-florida-voting-law
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 5, 2023 Posted July 5, 2023 18 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I prefer to break things down by defining the battle as a contest between objective thinkers vs. subjective thinkers. And not so much left and right With that in mind I'd like to add a #4. 4) The belief that speech requires regulation and censorship to fight "hate speech". While I accept the concept that some objective criteria can define "hate" its use is currently defined subjectively. Somebody feeling '"threatened" by what you might say is highly subjective yet requires you to be silenced and censored. Threatened in what way? Physically, mentally, emotionally? The issue of subjectivity is observable simply by how one person feeling threatened and others are not. It's an argument consistent with beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There's no defined standard. A nefarious actor could abuse the term "hate" and use it as a weapon to silence others that disagree with their positions rather than out of genuine concern of harm. That's exactly what we see currently when people scream "hate" and are unwilling to articulate and defend their views objectively through the use of reason and logic. I would agree that would be a good topic but I was intentionally driving the conversation towards politics and was just trying to ensure no one got too butt hurt. I tried to stay with facts and while my general opinions but the MSM one actually surprised me.
All_Pro_Bills Posted July 5, 2023 Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: I would agree that would be a good topic but I was intentionally driving the conversation towards politics and was just trying to ensure no one got too butt hurt. I tried to stay with facts and while my general opinions but the MSM one actually surprised me. Good enough. I was in a July 4th ruling a Federal judge presiding over a case detailing government/social media censorship has issued a temporary injuction agiant Biden administration specific individuals and agencies prohibiting them from contacting social media companies and their employees. On queue, NYT reports the move endangers effort to fight the ever present danger of misinformation. But like Bill Maher said, just give me the facts and leave your opinion where it belongs on the Op/Ed page, and I'll decide for myself what is misinformation. Edited July 5, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills 1 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 5, 2023 Posted July 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Good enough. I was in a July 4th ruling a Federal judge presiding over a case detailing government/social media censorship has issued a temporary injuction agiant Biden administration specific individuals and agencies prohibiting them from contacting social media companies and their employees. On queue, NYT reports the move endangers effort to fight the ever present danger of misinformation. But like Bill Maher said, just give me the facts and leave your opinion where it belongs on the Op/Ed page, and I'll decide for myself what is misinformation. I’ve been saying it for years. When you listen to the news, don’t listen for the nouns and verbs, just listen for the adjectives. It’s there you’ll find the ‘all in’ bias of the so-called main stream media. 1 2
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) Why Industrial Policy Is Always a Bad Idea, Exhibit 10,000: https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-tesla-buffalo-new-york-solar-plant-1b634b9e?mod=wknd_pos1 New York state paid to build a quarter-mile-long facility with 1.2 million square feet of industrial space, which it now owns and leases to Tesla TSLA -2.54%decrease; red down pointing triangle for $1 a year. It bought $240 million worth of solar-panel manufacturing equipment. Musk had said that by 2020 the Buffalo plant each week would churn out enough solar-panel shingles to cover 1,000 roofs. The Tesla solar-energy unit behind the plan, however, is averaging just 21 installations a week, according to energy analysts at Wood Mackenzie who reviewed utility data. The building houses some factory workers, but also hundreds of lower-paid desk-bound data analysts working on other Tesla business. The suppliers that Cuomo predicted would flock to a modern manufacturing hub never showed up. The only new nearby business is a Tim Horton’s coffee shop. Most of the solar-panel manufacturing equipment bought by the state has been sold at a discount or scrapped. A state comptroller’s audit found just 54 cents of economic benefit for every subsidy dollar spent on the factory, which rose on the site of an old steel mill. External auditors have written down nearly all of New York’s investment. “It was a bad deal,” said state Sen. Sean Ryan, a Democrat who represents Buffalo. “A cautionary tale is you can’t give governors too much power to get on the phone with egotistical billionaires.” Governments are notoriously bad at picking winners and losers. Whether it's Solyndra (a Democrat-driven bad deal), or whether it's Wisconsin's hare-brained Foxconn debacle (a Republican bad deal), these things are usually colossal fails. Remember that the next time a politician comes around promising huge economic benefits through government sponsorship/funding of private enterprise. The market will choose winners and losers, not some politicians looking for votes. Edited July 6, 2023 by The Frankish Reich
Doc Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: Why Industrial Policy Is Always a Bad Idea, Exhibit 10,000: https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-tesla-buffalo-new-york-solar-plant-1b634b9e?mod=wknd_pos1 New York state paid to build a quarter-mile-long facility with 1.2 million square feet of industrial space, which it now owns and leases to Tesla TSLA -2.54%decrease; red down pointing triangle for $1 a year. It bought $240 million worth of solar-panel manufacturing equipment. Musk had said that by 2020 the Buffalo plant each week would churn out enough solar-panel shingles to cover 1,000 roofs. The Tesla solar-energy unit behind the plan, however, is averaging just 21 installations a week, according to energy analysts at Wood Mackenzie who reviewed utility data. The building houses some factory workers, but also hundreds of lower-paid desk-bound data analysts working on other Tesla business. The suppliers that Cuomo predicted would flock to a modern manufacturing hub never showed up. The only new nearby business is a Tim Horton’s coffee shop. Most of the solar-panel manufacturing equipment bought by the state has been sold at a discount or scrapped. A state comptroller’s audit found just 54 cents of economic benefit for every subsidy dollar spent on the factory, which rose on the site of an old steel mill. External auditors have written down nearly all of New York’s investment. “It was a bad deal,” said state Sen. Sean Ryan, a Democrat who represents Buffalo. “A cautionary tale is you can’t give governors too much power to get on the phone with egotistical billionaires.” Governments are notoriously bad at picking winners and losers. Whether it's Solyndra (a Democrat-driven bad deal), or whether it's Wisconsin's hare-brained Foxconn debacle (a Republican bad deal), these things are usually colossal fails. Remember that the next time a politician comes around promising huge economic benefits through government sponsorship/funding of private enterprise. The market will choose winners and losers, not some politicians looking for votes. Isn't Foxconn still investing almost $700M in Wisconsin?
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Isn't Foxconn still investing almost $700M in Wisconsin? https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/03/23/what-we-know-about-foxconn-in-wisconsin-and-how-we-got-there/70037738007/ It's a mixed bag. Yes, Foxconn still spends money in Wisconsin. But the bottom line: it is a fraction of what Scott Walker promised. Quite a bit has changed in five years. Employment is a fraction of the initial promise and its unclear what is being manufactured at the site. The facility has changed from a Generation 10.5 to a Generation 6 which normally makes screens for phones, tablets and TVs. But so far, no screens have been made. The incentive package has also changed. It’s been estimated that more than a billion dollars of taxpayer money has gone toward supporting the deal but in 2021, the Wisconsin Economic Development Corp. approved a much smaller package. The tax credits went down from $2.85 billion to $80 million. The job goal number is also down from 13,000 statewide to 1,454. The capital investment has also gone down from $10 billion to $672.8 million.
Doc Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/03/23/what-we-know-about-foxconn-in-wisconsin-and-how-we-got-there/70037738007/ It's a mixed bag. Yes, Foxconn still spends money in Wisconsin. But the bottom line: it is a fraction of what Scott Walker promised. Quite a bit has changed in five years. Employment is a fraction of the initial promise and its unclear what is being manufactured at the site. The facility has changed from a Generation 10.5 to a Generation 6 which normally makes screens for phones, tablets and TVs. But so far, no screens have been made. The incentive package has also changed. It’s been estimated that more than a billion dollars of taxpayer money has gone toward supporting the deal but in 2021, the Wisconsin Economic Development Corp. approved a much smaller package. The tax credits went down from $2.85 billion to $80 million. The job goal number is also down from 13,000 statewide to 1,454. The capital investment has also gone down from $10 billion to $672.8 million. Walker can't force Foxconn to spend money. Getting anything was good considering what Wuhan virus did to the world.
The Frankish Reich Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Doc said: Walker can't force Foxconn to spend money. Getting anything was good considering what Wuhan virus did to the world. My point is this: "industrial policy" is usually the opposite of free market policy. And in a lot of these cases - Tesla in Buffalo, Foxconn in Wisconsin - we see nothing more than the socialization of losses. The government that "invests" (providing state money and incentives) is often left holding the bag. I thought socialism was a bad thing.
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