Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Beast said: NFLPA acting like your local Teachers Union. On the one hand, if the NFL is telling them "get vaccinated in tier, we won't jump the line", a lot of them are not yet or have only just become eligible to be vaccinated. So travel and etc. does in theory present a higher risk of infection to them until 5-6 weeks past the first jab. On the other hand...at the risk of sounding like a crazed stalker, I follow a lot of these guys on Instagram. They don't appear particularly concerned about infection, including Mr. "I isolate and wear a mask" Allen (*ahem*). I see photos of various guys attending large unmasked weddings, a crowded outdoor concert/ crayfish boil, serving BBQ to the general public, working out with various trainers outdoors and indoors, trips to Hawaii, to Vegas, to Punta Cana, to Puerto Rico, to Palm Springs. I'm not saying this to criticize these guys for their choices! If I were a young "immortal" with plenty o' moolah who's to say I'd do different? I'd like to be in Punta Cana or Hawaii myself right now! But if you're not worried about infection when you're flying off to Hawaii or PR or DR or Vegas and bar hopping, or attending a big unmasked wedding, or working out with other guys at various S. Florida facilities, it seems kind of lame to argue you can't return to your NFL facility, get tested, and participate in OTAs at the team facility because it's too risky. 9 1 1 1 1
Frat-Train Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 I wanted to leave my stamp here, for all of history to revel in my presence before the political viewpoints shut this down like COVID Corral. I have no opinion, but I was here and history will remember thy name.
Southern_Bills Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 I would understand mini-camps being virtual as really it isn't that big of a deal and maybe some guys that want the vaccine haven't had an opportunity to get it yet. Training camp is a big deal for younger guys and I would think it's ridiculous to do it virtual. I don't have to show up to Training camp (unless you need me coach 🤣) so at the end of the day it's their choice. Also being as we returned most of our team we would weather that storm better than most. 1 2
Buddo Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 If for one moment, it could be believed that the NFLPA had genuine concerns for the players safety, then I would say 'fair enough'. As ever, this is all about the benjamins. The NFLPA were happy enough under possibly worse circumstances, to play a full NFL season, because players were getting paid for the games. Anything that could be construed as 'gratis', even though it would probably be to their own benefit in respect of performing to their best, is simply not something the NFLPA can bring itself to condone. It's ironic really, as the reality is probably that with the amount of knuckleheads in the NFL, there is probably a majority, who would be safer, actually at their teams facilities. Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the amount of proscriptions that cover practises, camps etc. There can't be too many jobs that you don't improve by actually not doing the job ( an exception needs to be made for 'suicide bomber'). I'm not talking about contact drills here, either, but walkthroughs, technique refining etc. that the NFLPA doesn't want players doing. 3 2
TBBills Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Things don't last that long anymore, people move on to the next thing very quickly, and that now includes pandemics.
RiotAct Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 it’s the new normal, after all. Get with the times, @Beast. 2
Saxum Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Beast said: NFLPA acting like your local Teachers Union. NFLPA has never wanted to skip OTAs, training camps, etc. If they had choice training camps would be Madden games with restricted number of hours to limit Carpal tunnel syndrome and other injuries. No new news. Edited April 10, 2021 by Limeaid spelling
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Southern_Bills said: I would understand mini-camps being virtual as really it isn't that big of a deal and maybe some guys that want the vaccine haven't had an opportunity to get it yet. Training camp is a big deal for younger guys and I would think it's ridiculous to do it virtual. I don't have to show up to Training camp (unless you need me coach 🤣) so at the end of the day it's their choice. Also being as we returned most of our team we would weather that storm better than most. I think the NFLPA is OK with training camp, but they want the rest of the normal offseason (OTAs, June mini-camp) to be virtual I could be wrong though I think there's an underlying issue beyond Covid. The NFLPA has been pushing for less and less OTAs before training camp - they used to be mandatory, now they're voluntary. The players don't like them because it's more chance to get hurt, at a point where getting hurt could screw their chance to make any team. The coaches want them because it's a chance to introduce the playbook and start getting a look at the new guys, and they feel the additional reps are valuable. I could be 100% wrong but I tend to think that the majority of these guys aren't too worried about covid and it's an excuse for the NFLPA to froth their membership up about not attending the "voluntary" workouts. 4
MJS Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 Of course they are. Eventually they'll be pushing for virtual games, too. Just have both teams login and play Madden. Players safety, you know. 2
Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 College does fine without pre-season games and minimal practice. NFL was fine last year with contact and practice cut back or eliminated. This old-school BS of hitting in pads and two a day workouts was stupid in 1970 and is stupid in 2021. The players are right to not risk injury when they aren't getting paid and don't have guaranteed contracts. None of us would work for free in our jobs. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: College does fine without pre-season games and minimal practice. NFL was fine last year with contact and practice cut back or eliminated. This old-school BS of hitting in pads and two a day workouts was stupid in 1970 and is stupid in 2021. The players are right to not risk injury when they aren't getting paid and don't have guaranteed contracts. None of us would work for free in our jobs. Can someone who's played college ball tell me if it's actually true they have minimal practice? Because my understanding is that the colleges play "Spring Football", 6 or 7 games that are against other teams in their conference (mostly) and that kind of serve the function of pre-season games as the Seniors and others who declared for the draft are out, while the redshirt Freshmen get their first game action. In DI volleyball, my friend's kid was expected to report for "player led" workouts just after the 4th of July, then coach-led workouts in August. I thought college football did a similar schedule. The Seniors and other team captains led the workouts using plans given to them by the coaches but it was a PITA because they weren't given official housing or meals so the arrangements were sort of haphazard. It seems to me that colleges do just fine with the equivalent of pre-season games (in the form of spring football) and quite a large amount of practice. The question in the NFL isn't hitting in pads or two a day workouts, because that hasn't been on the table for a long time; OTAs are very defined as far as gradual ramp-up of conditioning first, then walk throughs, then very restricted practices. Ever wonder what those "workout bonuses" in the contracts on Spotrac and Overthecap are? Those are payment for OTAs. Players also get three meals a day and snacks at the team facility and a stipend for living expenses. If you have a look, you'll see that most of the top-51 paid players have workout bonuses, so they in fact do get paid for OTAs (exceptions are the first round draft picks on rookie contracts, Allen Edmunds and Oliver). But it's the guys at the bottom of the roster, who are fighting to make the team, who most want OTAs even though they DON'T get paid. It gives them more time to learn the playbook. It gives them more time in the coaches' eyes and more film (OTAs are filmed). But for the guys who are bouncing around the league, it also gives them access to top-notch facilities, trainers and medical staff, and S&C staff that they are otherwise paying for out of their own pocket (not to mention food and lodging). If they aren't paying big $$ for training and S&C AND someone else is feeding and housing them, it's probably pretty helpful to the guys who are just kicking around the league trying to make their money last until they can make a team and get a paycheck. 3 1
DrDawkinstein Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: College does fine without pre-season games and minimal practice. NFL was fine last year with contact and practice cut back or eliminated. This old-school BS of hitting in pads and two a day workouts was stupid in 1970 and is stupid in 2021. The players are right to not risk injury when they aren't getting paid and don't have guaranteed contracts. None of us would work for free in our jobs. College starts playing their preseason in APRIL with their Spring games, which regularly pack stadiums. And then they practice all summer, and hold kids to strict training regimes throughout the entire time. Hitting in practice is a GOOD thing, because you cant get your body ready for it any other way. No matter how many weights you lift and wind sprints you run, you still need to get into "hitting condition". 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can someone who's played college ball tell me if it's actually true they have minimal practice? Because my understanding is that the colleges play "Spring Football", 6 or 7 games that are against other teams in their conference (mostly) and that kind of serve the function of pre-season games as the Seniors and others who declared for the draft are out, while the redshirt Freshmen get their first game action. He was wrong. 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can someone who's played college ball tell me if it's actually true they have minimal practice? Because my understanding is that the colleges play "Spring Football", 6 or 7 games that are against other teams in their conference (mostly) and that kind of serve the function of pre-season games as the Seniors and others who declared for the draft are out, while the redshirt Freshmen get their first game action. In DI volleyball, my friend's kid was expected to report for "player led" workouts just after the 4th of July, then coach-led workouts in August. I thought college football did a similar schedule. The Seniors and other team captains led the workouts using plans given to them by the coaches but it was a PITA because they weren't given official housing or meals so the arrangements were sort of haphazard. It seems to me that colleges do just fine with the equivalent of pre-season games (in the form of spring football) and quite a large amount of practice. The question in the NFL isn't hitting in pads or two a day workouts, because that hasn't been on the table for a long time; OTAs are very defined as far as gradual ramp-up of conditioning first, then walk throughs, then very restricted practices. Ever wonder what those "workout bonuses" in the contracts on Spotrac and Overthecap are? Those are payment for OTAs. Players also get three meals a day and snacks at the team facility and a stipend for living expenses. If you have a look, you'll see that most of the top-51 paid players have workout bonuses, so they in fact do get paid for OTAs (exceptions are the first round draft picks on rookie contracts, Allen Edmunds and Oliver). But it's the guys at the bottom of the roster, who are fighting to make the team, who most want OTAs even though they DON'T get paid. It gives them more time to learn the playbook. It gives them more time in the coaches' eyes and more film (OTAs are filmed). But for the guys who are bouncing around the league, it also gives them access to top-notch facilities, trainers and medical staff, and S&C staff that they are otherwise paying for out of their own pocket (not to mention food and lodging). If they aren't paying big $$ for training and S&C AND someone else is feeding and housing them, it's probably pretty helpful to the guys who are just kicking around the league trying to make their money last until they can make a team and get a paycheck. Not sure what you are talking about. Spring football is like three or four weeks of practices and an intrasquad game. Of course there is weight training and conditioning things that happen year round in college and NFL. Workout bonuses are not entirely tied to OTAs. They are tied to showing up for workouts before OTAs. As one example, White's contract has a $300,000 workout bonus which sounds like a lot but it is only 4.4% of his total earnings in 2021. I'm not advocating for eliminating all practices. But I don't beleive they are as crucial as the coaches and many people beleive. As for the hitting getting your body ready for the season. That is medieval thinking. The body doesn't work that way. The body goes through cycles of injury and repair. Getting injured more often from contact doesn't hasten the repair process nor prevent the harm to muscles and tendons. The play in 2020 was no different than other years with less practice time. Allen had one of the greatest statistical improvements in QB play in a year with little practice time with his WRs. https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2021/03/121462/ohio-state-will-begin-spring-football-practices-on-march-19-spring-game-scheduled-for-april-17?amp Ohio state spring schedule. 15 practices in 29 days and one intrasquad game. Basically the same for Oregon. Edited April 10, 2021 by Ethan in Portland
pennstate10 Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Limeaid said: NFLPA has never wanted to skip OTAs, training camps, etc. If they had choice training camps would be Madden games with restricted number of hours to limit carnal tunnel and other injuries. No new news. I'm guessing that most NFL players are the wrong gender for carnal tunnel injuries. 1
pennstate10 Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: College starts playing their preseason in APRIL with their Spring games, which regularly pack stadiums. And then they practice all summer, and hold kids to strict training regimes throughout the entire time. Hitting in practice is a GOOD thing, because you cant get your body ready for it any other way. No matter how many weights you lift and wind sprints you run, you still need to get into "hitting condition". He was wrong. There is quite a bit of misinformation on D1 college football in this thread. Here is the deal. In the off season, typically beginning in January players start (resume) rigorous strength and conditioning. These are under the supervision of the S&C staff. They aren't permitted to do football specific drills. In march or so, there is spring football. These are typical football practices although there are limits to the number of practices (15) and practices in pads. The last of these 15 practices is usually an intrasquad scrimmage played before packed stadiums (except at Pitt). There are no games against other teams. After spring football, the S&C resumes, again, no football drills, no contact at these workouts between coaches and players. Only the S&C staff. In the summer, it's more of the same, except players often get together for informal throw and catch sessions. Ocassiionly a coach may accidentally bump into the players at these informal, player led sessions. Then in August preseason practice begins. It's much like NFL preseason practice with strict limits on number of practices and practices with pads. There are no preseason games against other teams, although the major D1 (aka Power 5) often schedule early season games against lesser teams ("cupcakes") which serve as de facto preseason games. Hope this helps. 3
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 57 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Not sure what you are talking about. Spring football is like three or four weeks of practices and an intrasquad game. https://fbschedules.com/spring-2021-college-football-schedule/ for example. https://bigskyconf.com/news/2020/11/3/big-sky-unveils-2021-spring-football-schedule.aspx Special because of Covid? https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-spring-games-2021-schedule-dates-times-tv-channels-for-power-five-conferences/ 🤷♂️ 57 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Workout bonuses are not entirely tied to OTAs. They are tied to showing up for workouts before OTAs. As one example, White's contract has a $300,000 workout bonus which sounds like a lot but it is only 4.4% of his total earnings in 2021. You were saying they don't get paid. The point is, the top veterans DO get paid. There's a difference between "don't get paid" and "get paid a large percentage of my total earnings" For some of the top vets who have taken a minimum salary in favor of an increased signing bonus this year, you could make the same argument about the game checks they're going to get this fall, but they're still getting paid. Yes, there are wierdnesses where OTAs are only 10 days out of the weeks of voluntary spring workouts, but the players can't participate in those 10 days unless they've participated in the rest to my understanding. The point is: 1) about 2/3 of the "core" roster players do get paid for OTAs 2) it's actually the players who don't get paid, who most need/want OTAs to give them extra chance 57 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: As for the hitting getting your body ready for the season. Since OTAs aren't padded and no live contact is allowed, I'm not sure why we're discussing hitting. Seems like a "red herring" However when players refer to the difference between being "in shape" vs being "in game shape", I believe having the chance for their bodies to adjust to contact is exactly what they mean. 1
RyanC883 Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 of course they do. and it’s total nonsense. it also screws rookies, team bonding, esp for FA, etc. Tretter is nuts.
frostbitmic Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: College does fine without pre-season games and minimal practice. NFL was fine last year with contact and practice cut back or eliminated. This old-school BS of hitting in pads and two a day workouts was stupid in 1970 and is stupid in 2021. The players are right to not risk injury when they aren't getting paid and don't have guaranteed contracts. None of us would work for free in our jobs. NFL teams don't have the option of starting out their seasons with Northwest South Dakota St. like colleges can do, unless they're fortunate enough to be starting out with the Jests or Jaguars. But you're right, the players should report just a few days before the first game so hopefully the players emerge from a walk through with few injuries and to travel if they have an away game. 1
Saxum Posted April 10, 2021 Posted April 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: NFL teams don't have the option of starting out their seasons with Northwest South Dakota St. like colleges can do, unless they're fortunate enough to be starting out with the Jests or Jaguars. But you're right, the players should report just a few days before the first game so hopefully the players emerge from a walk through with few injuries and to travel if they have an away game. Future NFLPA official.
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