Doc Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 I’ll be very disappointed if the Bills don’t draft a 1-tech this year. Since they don’t go high, they should be able to get the best one. 2 1
dpberr Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 The Bills do not ask him to rush the passer every down and he's being asked to complete several different assignments during any one game. I think there have been many posts, pages and podcasts that show that. The Bills are not allowing him to go Warren Sapp out there. I find fault with the Bills in a way - if they wanted an all-around DT talent, Ed Oliver probably wasn't the best choice for that and there were other DTs in that draft that could have provided that. If they wanted a pure pass rushing talent, Ed Oliver is the player. 1
JustWinPlease Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, mannc said: You may be right, but the 9th overall pick (in a very good draft) shouldn’t need help from another defensive player in order to “shine”. Josh Allen needed help from other players in order to "shine." Every player does, that's why it's the ultimate team sport.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, mannc said: You may be right, but the 9th overall pick (in a very good draft) shouldn’t need help from another defensive player in order to “shine”. I'd at least have him line up where he fits. I know he was playing 1T a fair amount especially early on with Phillips and Jefferson struggling.
Malazan Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) the whole defense, especially the front 7 sucked last season. Not an excuse for any individual guy, but also there were obvious factors involved that went beyond his own play that affected him. That being said, it's year 3 now. There's no more excuses. You either show you can play at a high level regardless of circumstances around you or you put your house on the market. I do hope the coaches make it easier for him though. Edited April 9, 2021 by jeremy2020
Jay_Fixit Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Boxcar said: Not entirely fair, Oliver was out of position quite a bit. We really need a true 1T for him to shine. He’s the 9th overall pick. These are excuses made for a 5th round pick. 1 2
Southern_Bills Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Fair statements, it was not an ideal setup for him last season no doubt, but we live in a results based world. Plenty of defensive players make it work in less than ideal situations.
Logic Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 As was pointed out to me: Kyle Williams never needed a great 1T next to him in order to shine. He was paired with nothing but crap for much of his career. He still made plays. And he was a fifth rounder! I’d love a great 1T, too, but it’s not a valid excuse for Oliver to not wreak the havoc he’s capable of. 2021 is a HUGE year for Oliver. If he (and Epenesa, for that matter) take big steps, it could be enough to fix our pass rush issues. 4 2
mannc Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 43 minutes ago, JustWinPlease said: Josh Allen needed help from other players in order to "shine." Every player does, that's why it's the ultimate team sport. Ridiculous. Josh Allen shined very early on, despite his weak supporting cast. This past year his supporting cast was much better, but he also raised their games. Diggs and Beasley, for example, never before had seasons like they had in 2020. 2
babulator Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Boxcar said: Not entirely fair, Oliver was out of position quite a bit. We really need a true 1T for him to shine. What other player gets the luxury of saying "if he had a better player next to him" he'd shine. This is the NFL, players move around and get asked to play out of position at times. I don't remember saying this about KW. If you're selected #9 overall, you need to find a way to contribute more. On and off the stat sheet. I'm not hating on Ed, but saying I'm disappointed doesn't quite cut it either. We need more from Ed or he won't be around much longer.
Boxcar Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 37 minutes ago, babulator said: What other player gets the luxury of saying "if he had a better player next to him" he'd shine. This is the NFL, players move around and get asked to play out of position at times. I don't remember saying this about KW. If you're selected #9 overall, you need to find a way to contribute more. On and off the stat sheet. I'm not hating on Ed, but saying I'm disappointed doesn't quite cut it either. We need more from Ed or he won't be around much longer. Ok, but the reality is that he isn't what a 9th overall pick is "supposed" to be, so we either make the best of the situation or do nothing and complain about it.
LeviF Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 2 hours ago, mannc said: You may be right, but the 9th overall pick (in a very good draft) shouldn’t need help from another defensive player in order to “shine”. Then that's on Beane, not Oliver.
mannc Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Just now, LeviF91 said: Then that's on Beane, not Oliver. Both, actually.
LeviF Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, mannc said: Both, actually. Not really. If we assume, possibly correctly, that Oliver's ceiling is that of a very good 3T when he has a 1T that can eat blocks then he had no business being the 9th overall pick to begin with. Some guys just aren't ever going to be elite football players no matter the effort and time put in. The failure by a GM to recognize that doesn't rest on the player's shoulders. 1 1
H2o Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Oliver does need to step up, but he's under contract for at least two more years so it's not really all or nothing. He was also played at the 1-Tech a lot last season with Zimmer or Jefferson playing the 3-Tech. Getting Star back will help, but we need to draft a true 1-tech as well. I keep bringing up the name, but Bobby Brown III (Texas A&M) would look GREAT in a Bills uniform and I think coupled with Oliver on the DL would be dangerous for opposing offenses.
HappyDays Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Logic said: Kyle Williams never needed a great 1T next to him in order to shine. He was paired with nothing but crap for much of his career. He still made plays. And he was a fifth rounder! I’d love a great 1T, too, but it’s not a valid excuse for Oliver to not wreak the havoc he’s capable of. The argument isn't that Oliver didn't have a 1T next to him, it's that he was forced to play 1T himself which is not his natural position in the NFL. When he's asked to penetrate the line that's when he makes plays. It would be like if Kyle Williams had been asked to play 1T... In fact the player comparisons coming out of college are quite similar between them. Williams was also an undersized DT with a high motor and quick first step. Oliver needs to be kept in his natural position for his skill set to shine. 4 1
GunnerBill Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The argument isn't that Oliver didn't have a 1T next to him, it's that he was forced to play 1T himself which is not his natural position in the NFL. When he's asked to penetrate the line that's when he makes plays. It would be like if Kyle Williams had been asked to play 1T... In fact the player comparisons coming out of college are quite similar between them. Williams was also an undersized DT with a high motor and quick first step. Oliver needs to be kept in his natural position for his skill set to shine. Agree. His rookie season was by rookie 3 tech in the NFL standards a roaring success. I do agree with those that say he needs to be more consistent in his play at 3T than he was in 2020. That is definitely true. Those who say there were no game changing plays are wrong, he had a few, but the criticism that at times he goes missing for periods in games is fair. However, I will not criticise him at all for his play at 1T in 2020. He played far too many snaps at that spot which he is ill suited for and that is on the staff not on him. 1
Logic Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The argument isn't that Oliver didn't have a 1T next to him, it's that he was forced to play 1T himself which is not his natural position in the NFL. When he's asked to penetrate the line that's when he makes plays. It would be like if Kyle Williams had been asked to play 1T... In fact the player comparisons coming out of college are quite similar between them. Williams was also an undersized DT with a high motor and quick first step. Oliver needs to be kept in his natural position for his skill set to shine. Agreed. However, two things: 1.) Several people were, in fact, making the argument that he needs a good 1T next to him, right here in this thread. 2.) Even when he HAS had the chance to play 3T — because, let’s be honest, it’s not like he didn’t get the chance to do it a decent amount in 2020 — he has been inconsistent and hasn’t had the game-wrecking impact his talent would suggest he can. In any case, the three biggest potential improvements to our defense would all come from young, highly drafted players making big leaps: Oliver, Epenesa, Edmunds. I view this coming season as a referendum on Oliver and Edmunds, in particular. If they make the jump, it transforms our defense. If they don’t, then the Bills will have tough decisions to make regarding contract extensions. 1 1
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