Bills players you disliked

[ChevyVanMiller]

Not sure if he’s been mentioned because I haven’t read through the entire thread, but the only Bill that I ever detested was Reggie Rogers. He was convicted of driving drunk and killing three teenagers prior to his stint with the Bills. That after being the seventh overall pick in his draft class.

 

He played one year for the Bills, 1991, and was the complete polar opposite of what you would call a “process guy.”

 

I was shocked when John Butler signed him and delighted when he was let go. He was a guy that completely squandered his talent and brought great misery to the families of those unfortunate teens.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Rogers

[JMF2006]

I never really disliked a player but Ronnie Harmon dropping that sure TD sure got me madder than a hornet. 

[Beast]

Actually, any Punter.

 

Punters.

 

LOL

43 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Not sure if he’s been mentioned because I haven’t read through the entire thread, but the only Bill that I ever detested was Reggie Rogers. He was convicted of driving drunk and killing three teenagers prior to his stint with the Bills. That after being the seventh overall pick in his draft class.

 

He played one year for the Bills, 1991, and was the complete polar opposite of what you would call a “process guy.”

 

I was shocked when John Butler signed him and delighted when he was let go. He was a guy that completely squandered his talent and brought great misery to the families of those unfortunate teens.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Rogers

 

Agree with what you said though it was Polian as the GM in 91.

[noacls]

Fred Jackson

Jerry Hughes

Tre Edmunds

Stevie Johnson 

The Bills most overrated players. The first 3 all seem to be good people though. 

 

Byrd - quitter

Peters- no loyalty

 

Kelly- reasons stated in previous posy

[BADOLBILZ]

On 4/9/2021 at 8:05 AM, cwater10 said:

A few final thoughts and I'll leave this alone.  It's been fun.  This is a thread about Bills that we did not care for and you have fairly called out Stevie as being on your list.  But for clarity sake, please don't spin my words.

1. The Johnson/Hardy narrative is completely relevant.  The point you were refuting was my assertion that Stevie had worked his ass off and got on the field ahead of higher drafted guys.  Comparing his career with a guy from his own draft class, drafted 5 rounds earlier is relevant.  I'm not sure how you don't get where that comes from. 
2. You stated that Stevie was the only drafted receiver in Gailey's first lineup.  That is simply not true.  Gailey's first lineup in 2010 included former 1st round pick Lee Evans and former 2nd round pick Roscoe Parrish.  Their career trajectories do not alter that.
3. Conflating George Wilson and Donald Wilson?  I'm not, but I am laughing at my self on that one as I see that I did type "Donald Wilson".  Imagine the blasphemy if I had typed Donald Nixon.  I don't know where that came from, but again, I am not conflating them.  Call it a senior keyboard moment...  Donald Jones was a fun player, a nice player and a good guy.  I remember him well, but my point was that his primary contributions came subsequent to Stevie's arrival.
4. I think that many over reacted to Stevie's personality and his penalties. Open defiance?  Go back in time and look up Gailey's reactions.  It's not that blatant.
5. You don't get to say that a lost generation of Bills fans "had no real understanding of what to expect of a winning franchise and had come to accept some pretty low standards" in one breath and then say that you respect them in the next.  You painting them with the victim brush for not knowing any better is not respect.  

And I've always been the cool old guy, even if only in my own mind...  My self serving sh*t has always served me well, thank goodness...  Someone has to...  You have a great day, BADOL.  We'll see you 'round, no doubt...  

 

 

Sorry for late response:

 

1. Johnson and Hardy both sucked when the Hardy situation was relevant.   He wasn't on the team when Johnson started getting the snaps 3 years in.

 

2. True that I did forget that Gailey and Nix did the almost unthinkable and decided to take an entire season to evaluate Dick Jauron's last roster.   That kind of incompetence........an utter lack of urgency or respect for the investment of the fanbase...........is something we should never forget.

 

4. I wanted to like SJ13.   I go to every preseason game so I was very familiar with him and knew he had a chance to be a decent player.    Gailey absolutely maxed out his talent.   But SJ13 was not able to handle success.   He was costing his team with the penalties.........and putting pressure on himself with the self-promotion.........pressure that resulted in mistakes on gameday.   The lead-up to the Pittsburgh debacle was his self-aggrandizing all week.  He was a textbook definition of a selfish, losing culture player.    As I said.......it didn't end in Buffalo.......he took his show to CA and it continued.

 

5. I get to say it because I lived it.   Maybe if you had a 15 year old future attorney adamantly argue to you that "cash to the cap" wasn't a cost cutting measure you would understand where I am coming from.     I really felt terribly for those kids.......it was CRUEL.  The lack of commitment to winning took a toll on an entire generation of Bills fans who really had no experience with what good stewardship even looked like........let alone the details needed to be a SB contending franchise.    The good news is that once you see it.......you should be able to pick it up fast.

 

And like I said.........I think those people know now that a screwball like Stevie Johnson wouldn't have a place on a Sean McDermott team.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Not sure if he’s been mentioned because I haven’t read through the entire thread, but the only Bill that I ever detested was Reggie Rogers. He was convicted of driving drunk and killing three teenagers prior to his stint with the Bills. That after being the seventh overall pick in his draft class.

 

He played one year for the Bills, 1991, and was the complete polar opposite of what you would call a “process guy.”

 

I was shocked when John Butler signed him and delighted when he was let go. He was a guy that completely squandered his talent and brought great misery to the families of those unfortunate teens.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Rogers

 

 

Butler tried hard to land Lawrence Phillips as well.

 

That was a hot topic on TSW at the time.

 

[Bill from NYC]

Does anyone remember an OG Marcus Spriggs? I truly believe that he was one of the worst players in the history of the NFL. I don't know how in the world he got drafted. I saw a game in which he was beat on virtually every play. I mean physically abused over and over.

 

In one game, RJ was the quarterback and he was hit at least 3 seconds after the ball was released. He was laying on the turf, bleeding. Not only would Spriggs not retaliate, he didn't even offer a hand to help him up.

 

The Bills OL was so bad in those days that horrible players actually saw playing time. Spriggs, Pucillo, Pennington,Merz, and so many more. The Bills management didn't care either. Their way of helping was to draft (and sign as free agents) defensive backs, and this before the rule changes made it a passing league.

 

I don't think there will ever be an NFL franchise that is run as poorly ever again.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Bill from NYC

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The Bills OL was so bad in those days that horrible players actually saw playing time. Spriggs, Pucillo, Pennington,Merz, and so many more.

Fred played for the Bills?!?

[The Frankish Reich]

I'm gonna give some of the youngsters a little history lesson.

 

1970s: I was a little kid. I loved everyone in a Bills uniform. Dennis Shaw was my first legit football hero (yeah, really). I couldn't stand Wayne Patrick, the fullback. I just had in my mind that he fumbled every game. And you know what? I think my 8 year old brain was right on the money. I looked it up. He fumbled 18 times in 264 carries. How is that allowed to happen? How does this guy start for 4 years? I think the term "Billsy" should have been invented for things like this, sticking with a guy who has proven time and time again that he just shouldn't be in the NFL.

 

1980s: hey, I liked Joe Ferguson as much as any Bills fan back did back in the 70s. But has any team ever stuck by a mediocre QB longer than the Bills? He was acceptable when young, with a great running game. He was still our QB in the mid-80s, well into his 30s, on terrible teams that should have been rebuilding. Not really his fault; management's fault. But still seeing him limp out there every Sunday was a sign of how lost his franchise was. Thank goodness the USFL failed and Jim Kelly was forced to swallow his pride and come to Buffalo.

 

1990s: Todd Collins. Yeah, it's never easy following the legend. But still ... not the guy, and it was obvious from the start. Frank Reich kind of sucked when he got a chance to start elsewhere, but Bills fans being what we are, I always wanted him to get a shot with us. So Collins is my whipping boy. Sorry, Todd.

 

2000s: Aaron Maybin. Didn't come till the tail end of the decade, but still: I don't think I've ever seen a guy less interested in becoming an NFL player. He's certainly an unusual personality, and I actually have a grudging respect for him deciding that everything that goes with being an NFL player (including what you have to do to your body) just wasn't for him. But maybe you coulda come to that conclusion in, say, 2008, before the 2009 draft?

 

2010s: Brad Smith. Another "not really his fault" guy, but another sign of what was wrong with the Bills for two decades. I dreaded seeing him trot out to run the wildcat. Did it ever work? I mean, really work? It was a copycat thing after the Dolphins started it, and we did it with no element of surprise and in a klutzy manner. (Erik Pears, honorable mention, in the grand tradition of "how long do we have to wait before the coaching staff gives up on this guy?" See Patrick, Wayne.)

 

2020s: Hey, everything is awesome. But I can see myself turning on Tremaine Edmunds really fast if we get off to a slow defensive start again ...

Edited April 10, 2021 by The Frankish Reich

[BuffaloBills1998]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:50 AM, NewEra said:

Ken Irvin

 

Chris Watson

 

Mike Tolbert

 

Doug Flukie 

 

 

I disagree with you on Flutie. He was cool when he was here, he had us winning until Ralph and company screwed up by overpaying Rob Johnson and that’s when everything went down the tubes. Until Allen came along, Flutie was the best post Kelly QB

[BuffaloBills1998]

19 hours ago, DC Tom said:

I generally don't dislike people I haven't had some personal interaction with.

 

I've had personal interaction with Doug Flutie.  I seriously dislike the man.

What was your interaction? Maybe you caught him on a bad day or something 

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I disagree with you on Flutie. He was cool when he was here, he had us winning until Ralph and company screwed up by overpaying Rob Johnson and that’s when everything went down the tubes. Until Allen came along, Flutie was the best post Kelly QB

You disagree with the fact that I don’t like Flukie?

 

You disagree with me that Flukie was a complete ****** 2 of the 3 times that I have encountered him?  
 

you may disagree......but I still don’t like him and he was still an ****** irl.  
 

“he was cool when he was here”.  How many times have you encountered him irl?  Or was he just cool on tv?

[CA OC Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You disagree with the fact that I don’t like Flukie?

 

You disagree with me that Flukie was a complete ****** 2 of the 3 times that I have encountered him?  
 

you may disagree......but I still don’t like him and he was still an ****** irl.  
 

“he was cool when he was here”.  How many times have you encountered him irl?  Or was he just cool on tv?

Speaking of Flutie, in 2003 or possibly it was 2004, I was flying from Boston to San Diego. My son was around 2 years old. He was super tired, acting like a tired 2 year old, but never fell asleep until we were descending into SD. 3 hours into the flight he stood on the arm rest and jumped into the aisle (yes, apparently we were those kind of parents that couldn't control their kid). Flutie was sitting in the row behind us (yes, in coach). Didn't say anything to us. Walking off the plane I said something about being a Bills fan and that I always rooted for him. 

[cwater10]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Sorry for late response:

 

1. Johnson and Hardy both sucked when the Hardy situation was relevant.   He wasn't on the team when Johnson started getting the snaps 3 years in.

 

2. True that I did forget that Gailey and Nix did the almost unthinkable and decided to take an entire season to evaluate Dick Jauron's last roster.   That kind of incompetence........an utter lack of urgency or respect for the investment of the fanbase...........is something we should never forget.

 

4. I wanted to like SJ13.   I go to every preseason game so I was very familiar with him and knew he had a chance to be a decent player.    Gailey absolutely maxed out his talent.   But SJ13 was not able to handle success.   He was costing his team with the penalties.........and putting pressure on himself with the self-promotion.........pressure that resulted in mistakes on gameday.   The lead-up to the Pittsburgh debacle was his self-aggrandizing all week.  He was a textbook definition of a selfish, losing culture player.    As I said.......it didn't end in Buffalo.......he took his show to CA and it continued.

 

5. I get to say it because I lived it.   Maybe if you had a 15 year old future attorney adamantly argue to you that "cash to the cap" wasn't a cost cutting measure you would understand where I am coming from.     I really felt terribly for those kids.......it was CRUEL.  The lack of commitment to winning took a toll on an entire generation of Bills fans who really had no experience with what good stewardship even looked like........let alone the details needed to be a SB contending franchise.    The good news is that once you see it.......you should be able to pick it up fast.

 

And like I said.........I think those people know now that a screwball like Stevie Johnson wouldn't have a place on a Sean McDermott team.

 

Better late than gaslighting with touches of condescending and dismissive.  I am not here to be, and definitely not qualified to be your debate coach or spiritual guide (far from that... lol), so I’ll take a deep breath and remind myself that it’s a just a freaking message board, all is fair I suppose… But really, I am here with a smile and appreciation for your well stated response above.  Now I’ll go all in with my own fatal flaw… word-count-mageddon.

 

At any rate, I get it.  Stevie is obviously an issue for many Bills fans.  I don’t agree with it, but I get the stated objections to Stevie.   He was a diva at times.  He took dumb penalties.  Penalties, by definition, hurt the team.  We can agree on those basic facts.  I think that most would agree that Stevie was also a Rorschach test for Bills fans.  Some looked and saw a beautiful butterfly and others saw a grotesque bat.   If I am honest, I can see both on any given day.  Personally, I prefer to let the perfect not become the enemy of the good. Stevie was good, period and full stop GOOD!  But yes, very, very far from perfect.  I still loved his good.  After our exchange yesterday, I went back and looked at a few YouTube clips of his career here in Buffalo and I had forgotten just what that body of work looked like.  If you take the 30,000 foot view, few players have reached that level of consistently good here in Buffalo. 

 

Let’s talk about your observations.

 

1.     You say “Johnson and Hardy both sucked when the Hardy situation was relevant”.  No, that is not true and more importantly, it is out of context.  Stevie NEVER sucked in his time in Buffalo.  Johnson was a much lower pick than Hardy, in the same draft class.  He kept his head down and worked as a rookie and became the better player during their rookie seasons together.  By the final 2 games that season, Stevie was getting much more playing time and grabbed a TD catch in each of the final two games.  In 2009, their second season together, Stevie spent most of the year out with a severe rib injury while Terrel Owens was our rental WR1/Marketing stunt, that rendered both of them irrelevant that year.  TO, keys to the city in hand, was going to be the whole show that year no matter what.  In 2010, with Stevie healthy and TO “on to Cincinnati”, SJ was in the starting lineup on opening day.

2.     I don’t remember much about how Gailey handled the existing roster.  I do know that SJ was in the starting lineup opening day, benched and then put back in for good by midseason.  I also remember a QB shuffle that eventually settled out with Fitz as the clear QB1.

3.     This is one of my raw nerves with some fans regarding Stevie.  You say that Gailey maxed out his talent.  Did Stevie have nothing to do with his own success?  Your prior posts make it sound like a Gailey, with some mythical power bestowed football superpowers upon Stevie and entrusted the chosen one to be perfect.  I think Stevie had a hell of a lot to do with that success, and that forced Gailey and Nix to recognize his ability and get him on the field, and them feed him the ball.  I think that Gailey and Nix could see it was in their own best interest to get SJ on the field, because that was their best shot at winning.  At that is to Stevie’s credit.  It was his ability to take advantage of opportunity, where others, more highly regarded had failed.  Love the guy for that and then let’s talk about his infamous transgressions.  I have a hard time with a narrative that credits Gailey for Stevie’s success and lays blame for Stevie’s imperfections only at Stevie’s feet.

4.     So yeah, Stevie emerged in 2010 as a stud WR and a showboat.  Well first, color me shocked.  You bring in TO to sell tickets, bide time while young talent matures, and then get a case of the vapors when a young star WR starts to showboat when he gets his moment in the sun the following year.  Please….  Just stop the righteous indignation and recognize it for what it was.  Young player being silly no doubt.  Emulating a hero and an influence that the team placed in his room, yes.  Loser?  Hardly.  Can’t go there and never will.  That man did a ton on the field and in the community that screams anything but loser.  Kelly, Thomas, Andre, Bruce… they all had their selfish foolish transgressions.  I think of Andre spiking his helmet during a Super Bowl tantrum.  Don’t get me started on Thurman and helmets and his deflation of the entire team, sulking after his fumble in SB XXVIII.  Bruce took suspension for substance abuse, refused to attend training camp etc….  I can say that cocaine was part of the culture in 1988 and I’m cool with Bruce and that would be true.  I can also tell you that social media showboating was part of the culture in 2010, so I’m cool with Stevie and not see too much daylight between those two statements. But we revere those older players and eschew Steve for far less.  

5.     Those of us  that are a certain age all lived it.  And those that come after us will live their own path following this team.  I had the Stew Barber years, The Harvey Johnson years to numb my soul with growing up.  I spent what seemed like a decade watching games only to see how one player, OJ, would entertain me.  Stevie will never be confused with OJ on any level, thank goodness, but similarly they served as some good entertainment on otherwise flavorless teams.  All I know is that I enjoyed being a Bills fan as a kid because I enjoyed it.  I didn’t need pity because the team sucked.  I didn’t want any or feel compelled to bestow pity on younger fans during the drought.  They will be fine, just as we were.  The door is and was open at all times and worked equally will in both directions.  The fan experience is usually the draw that keeps us around.  Like it or not, Stevie was a big part of that experience for a handful of years and many of us remember him fondly for that.  I can relate to your future attorney taunting you with cash to the cap justifications.  I have a 43 year old practicing attorney daughter that will argue to the death that sports are a malignant drain on society.  She has an uncanny knack of scheduling family dinners during big games or playoff games.  I feel your pain…. And your joy.

 

In summation… BADOL we probably have more common ground that is readily observed.  You strike me as a fan that cares a lot.  We share that.  You strike me as a bit irreverent.  It may look different, but we share that.  I have referred in recent exchanges with you to different lenses, and I do believe that is what this all about.  My lens looks back at SJ13 and sees an old friend, a favorite.  Maybe your lenses look back and see an antagonist reminding you of the drought years.  If that is so, I get it, but just maybe you can find even more fun in between those starkly drawn lines.  You get to choose.   But please…. SJ13 was never a loser and he left a much bigger footprint in this town and on this fanbase than any 7th round pick that I can think of. That is not the resume of a loser.

[BuffaloBills1998]

38 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You disagree with the fact that I don’t like Flukie?

 

You disagree with me that Flukie was a complete ****** 2 of the 3 times that I have encountered him?  
 

you may disagree......but I still don’t like him and he was still an ****** irl.  
 

“he was cool when he was here”.  How many times have you encountered him irl?  Or was he just cool on tv?

I always liked Flutie and while I never met him personally I’ve had friends that met him and they said he was nice and respectful. He loved Buffalo and the fans, we gave his career a reboot and he had success when he was here. I don’t know what kind of interactions you had with him, but he’s one of my favorite Bills players

[sherpa]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I always liked Flutie....

 

And to quote Frank Thomas on those insufferable Nugenix commercials that Flutie does:

   "And she'll like him too."

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I always liked Flutie and while I never met him personally I’ve had friends that met him and they said he was nice and respectful. He loved Buffalo and the fans, we gave his career a reboot and he had success when he was here. I don’t know what kind of interactions you had with him, but he’s one of my favorite Bills players

If I had never met him and Flutie was the Bills QB when I first started watching football, I’d probably have a different view of him.  

Just wondering how old you are?  Born in 1998?  Became a fan in 1998?  

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

McGahee

 

Norwood

 

T.O.

 

Whitner

 

Incognito

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sweet Lou]

On 4/9/2021 at 6:56 PM, JohninMinn. said:

Josh Allen because his girl is off the charts.

Totally agree dude!

I would drag my old ass through 10 miles of broken glass just to listen to her fart over a pay phone!

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I always liked Flutie and while I never met him personally I’ve had friends that met him and they said he was nice and respectful. He loved Buffalo and the fans, we gave his career a reboot and he had success when he was here. I don’t know what kind of interactions you had with him, but he’s one of my favorite Bills players

 

 

Flutie loved Buffalo so much that he hadn't been back to Buffalo in 19 years when he showed up to promote the re-boot of Flutie Flakes.