klos63 Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Jeff Wright, mainly because of his horrible game in XXV. Other than that, a decent player, but the wrong player.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: is this the part where we pretend Stevie Johnson isn’t good at football ? OK so can we put Ryan L Bilz down in the "McDermott would love to have Stevie Johnson on his team" category? His apologists don't seem to have much courage to match their conviction on this topic.
Just in Atlanta Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Kelvin Benjamin - the chicken biscuit eating quitter. What McD saw in this guy is anyone's guess. Kyle Orton - the guy had no passion and played uninspired.
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Jason Peters - loved him until he held out after playing 1 year of a 5 year contract. He sat out all of training camp/pre season and came back SLOW in the 2008 season. He was awful that year and I'm still mad he made the pro-bowl. Who remembers this play? Peters was good for at least 1-2 plays like that per game in 2008. Drives me crazy that he's one of the most respected LTs in the game and a sure fire HOFer after mailing it in for an entire season over a contract dispute. Kelvin Benjamin - don't need a write up to explain my dislike 1 1
BADOLBILZ Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 2 hours ago, cwater10 said: I don't think that everyone knows it. I think that this is a grey area and an unknown. I love McDermott, of that I am sure. I know that he as competitive as they come. Beyond that, I can't claim to have climbed inside his psyche to know how he would respond to every player in the league. I know that he quickly bounced guys that didn't buy in to the team culture and didn't fit the general scheme envisioned for their positions. I know that he also has embraced some players that we may not have expected. Be honest, when Diggs was sulking and tweeting his way out of Minnesota at the end of 2019, did you look on and say hey... there is a "process guy"? Did you expect that guy to be the missing piece for a McDermott team? I sure didn't. With respect to Stevie, he was a craftsman who ran routes as well as anyone in the game at that time. Sound like a familiar skill set? Would he have bought in? We will never know for sure. How would McDermott have reacted to Stevie? We don't that either. But we do have some clues, and not all of them suggest what you say is a slam dunk, sure outcome. Listen to McDermott's reaction on the field last year after Josh took a taunting penalty after scoring against the Chargers last year: https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/03/sean-mcdermott-didnt-mind-josh-allen-taunt-buffalo-bills/ Clearly, McDermott was not upset with Allen's penalty, which many would call "selfish". Others would call it competitive swagger. McDermott is clearly in that camp. Gailey appears to have been more in that camp than it appeared on the surface. If you go back and look into Gailey's reaction to Stevie's infamous penalty against New England at the end of 2011 which got him benched, you may be surprised. Gailey acknowledges not only that he didn't understand how that could not be a penalty one year, but could be the following, he also acknowledges that he had to bench him because he had kind of painted himself into a corner earlier in the season by telling the entire team that would be the result if any member of the team took that penalty. Interviewed after the game, Gailey's words revealing as to how upset he really was with Stevie. CHAN GAILEY, HEAD COACH Q:What's your view of Stevie Johnson's penalty? CG:Well, what we said after we had an issue earlier in the season was 'If anybody got a penalty that hurt our football team for any kind of demonstration, that he was out that game and then we would decide about the next game.' And so, if I say that, then I am going to do it, so he was out. Q:How disappointed are you in him for doing what he did? Because he knows better... CG:Well, you know, I am disappointed. What happens is, it happened last year, he put a message on his shirt, showed his shirt and didn't get a flag. And he does it this year, and he gets a flag. Which one is it, you know? It puts me in a bind because I make the statement and if I say it, I'm going to do it. So, I could not argue the grey area of that. So, yeah, I'm disappointed and if it hurts the team, then I've got to do what I've got to do. Q:Stevie Johnson has had a history of being selfish. At what point do you get tired of it? CG:I got tired of it the first time it happened. But, you hope people learn from situations. You know, there isn't anybody who hasn't made mistakes, but you've got to learn from your mistakes. And everybody falls in that category, me too, and I have said this a hundred times. He is not a bad guy; he's not. He's a good guy, but he uses some bad judgment at times and if you do that enough and it hurts the team, you've got to do something. https://www.patriots.com/news/bills-postgame-quotes-178376 (Sorry for the evil empire link, but gotta take the 10 year old quotes where you find them...) At any rate, the point is football coaches like competitive guys. Sometimes they do foolish things out of enthusiasm and swagger. I don't pretend to know that McDermott would have it, would have been more successful or even willing to coach that out of Stevie. I do sense that he wants to leave that swagger and enthusiasm just as it is in Josh. So BADOL let's just leave it here. Clearly you have a distaste for Stevie Johnson. Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. Equally clear, my opinion runs counter to yours. You may be right. I don't know. But I am not sure that you or anyone else on this board knows how Stevie would have fared under McDermott. I think that it would have been fun to have a time machine to bring young Stevie 10 years into the future to find out. There is a big difference between a random, heat of the moment unsportsmanlike conduct penalty from a guy like Josh Allen...........and selfish Stevie Johnson's premeditated, scripted celebration penalties. Gailey's response to the media was pretty strong against SJ. Saying he was tired of his selfish acts the first time they happened was about as damning as you will get from a HC talking to the media. Not even refuting the selfish tag the media had put on SJ13 was damning. Gailey had a tendency to let the media make his criticisms for him. He did not have a good hold on his locker room. The one player who should not have embarrassed him though was the guy who benefitted the most from him being the HC, which was Stevie Johnson. McDermott is much more defensive of his players in the media. Things get handled behind closed doors. Ask Quinton Spain.
cwater10 Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: There is a big difference between a random, heat of the moment unsportsmanlike conduct penalty from a guy like Josh Allen...........and selfish Stevie Johnson's premeditated, scripted celebration penalties. Gailey's response to the media was pretty strong against SJ. Saying he was tired of his selfish acts the first time they happened was about as damning as you will get from a HC talking to the media. Not even refuting the selfish tag the media had put on SJ13 was damning. Gailey had a tendency to let the media make his criticisms for him. He did not have a good hold on his locker room. The one player who should not have embarrassed him though was the guy who benefitted the most from him being the HC, which was Stevie Johnson. McDermott is much more defensive of his players in the media. Things get handled behind closed doors. Ask Quinton Spain. Again, clearly different lenses in use here. I guess maybe, as fans there is some confirmation bias at work in hearing these answers. I hear Gailey clearly stating that the penalty was a grey area, not a blatant violation of his policy, and that he had no choice to bench because it technically fit the rule he put forth. I also hear Chan clearly stating that for the hundredth time, that Stevie was not a bad guy, that he was a good guy that had at times used poor judgement. That is hardly the Old Testament scorching from a coach that you describe. Any lingering questions about where the organization really stood on Stevie was put to rest when the extended him with a very nice payday during the following off-season. Anyway BADOL, you get your opinion. I don't intend to change it. Be well. Edited April 9, 2021 by cwater10
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 many of you are pretty rough on the Bills! I don't "hate" players for playing poorly. For example, I saw some people up thread saying they hate guys that were 7th round draft picks who didn't play well (Puccillo; Justin Rogers)-- not sure what you all are expecting out of 7th rounders?? I only "hate" guys that were bad actors-- i.e., didn't play hard; were bad teammates; or were bad guys on/off the field. 1
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 I couldn't stand Bruce Smith off the field, on the field he was a beast. I was at Jim Kelly's bar and saw him standing on the stairscase and as I was walking by I said something along the lines like I enjoyed watching him and that I'm pulling for him and the Bills. I reached out my hand to give him a handshake and he just looked at me like "get lost" and never put his hand out. Then with all his holdouts, pretend injuries to not practice and always feeling like he needed more money it just reaked of a man with a monster ego with no humility. Then his DWI, passing out at a redlight, and leaving for Washington for one purpose only, to play enough games so he could have the sack record. He seemed to be all about himself. He just always seemed like a jerk. A Hall of Famer and amazing player but a complete ass. Just my take... 2
BADOLBILZ Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, cwater10 said: Again, clearly different lenses in use here. I guess maybe, as fans there is some confirmation bias at work in hearing these answers. I hear Gailey clearly stating that the penalty was a grey area, not a blatant violation of his policy, and that he had no choice to bench because it technically fit the rule he put forth. I also hear Chan clearly stating that for the hundredth time, that Stevie was not a bad guy, that he was a good guy that had at times used poor judgement. That is hardly the Old Testament scorching from a coach that you describe. Any lingering questions about where the organization really stood on Stevie was put to rest when the extended him with a very nice payday during the following off-season. Anyway BADOL, you get your opinion. I don't intend to change it. Be well. You need some new lenses if you compare Josh Allen to Stevie Johnson. One is win at all cost........the other was self-promote at all cost. No HC goes "Old Testament scorching" on a player in the media. I guess you don't know how it works.
Irv Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 OJ, Jarius Byrd, Lynch, M Williams at the end of his contract, Dareus, Watkins, Gillmore. Bad humans.
blacklabel Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) I know he's not a player but I couldn't stand Tom Donahoe and his stupid weasel face and his stupid personnel decisions and his big stupid inability to operate a pro football franchise. As for players, I try to give them a chance. If they suck on the field I'm not gonna waste my time and energy hating them, I'm just gonna hope they get replaced. Players that irritate me are the ones causing drama and bullcrap either on or off the field. The one type of player that really gets on my nerves is the one that will celebrate any sort of accomplishment. You know the type, a DB who jumps up and folds his arms like "Aw yeah, not gettin' no catches on me today!" while the reason for the incompletion is the QB zipped it a mile wide or whatever. Or the guys who get crazy when they're down by 30. "My team is down by 34 and there's two minutes to go but I just got this first down, lemme do a dance!" Or the linebacker who makes a TFL when his teams down by 40 and he jumps up like, "I am the greatest tackling machine ever!" It's like, shaddap. You know those types of guys are just in it for themselves at that point. Team guys in those situations make the play and just go straight back to the huddle because what's to celebrate if you're not gonna win? But in conclusion...Tom Donahoe and his stupid rat face. Edit: Cripes, I forgot about OJ. I don't give a crap what he did on the field, I wish his name was eradicated from the entire NFL let alone the Bills franchise. He's literal human garbage. Edited April 9, 2021 by blacklabel
Royale with Cheese Posted April 9, 2021 Author Posted April 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, blacklabel said: I know he's not a player but I couldn't stand Tom Donahoe and his stupid weasel face and his stupid personnel decisions and his big stupid inability to operate a pro football franchise. As for players, I try to give them a chance. If they suck on the field I'm not gonna waste my time and energy hating them, I'm just gonna hope they get replaced. Players that irritate me are the ones causing drama and bullcrap either on or off the field. The one type of player that really gets on my nerves is the one that will celebrate any sort of accomplishment. You know the type, a DB who jumps up and folds his arms like "Aw yeah, not gettin' no catches on me today!" while the reason for the incompletion is the QB zipped it a mile wide or whatever. Or the guys who get crazy when they're down by 30. "My team is down by 34 and there's two minutes to go but I just got this first down, lemme do a dance!" Or the linebacker who makes a TFL when his teams down by 40 and he jumps up like, "I am the greatest tackling machine ever!" It's like, shaddap. You know those types of guys are just in it for themselves at that point. Team guys in those situations make the play and just go straight back to the huddle because what's to celebrate if you're not gonna win? But in conclusion...Tom Donahoe and his stupid rat face. Edit: Cripes, I forgot about OJ. I don't give a crap what he did on the field, I wish his name was eradicated from the entire NFL let alone the Bills franchise. He's literal human garbage. Donohoe killed our defense not retaining Pat Williams. Spikes was pleading with the Bills to re-sign him because he keeps him clean. We replaced him with Tim Anderson and Ron Byers? Donohoe was only keeping one between Schobel and Williams....why not both?? 1
Blokestradamus Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 Nick O'Leary, primarily because of this affront to all sense and logic. 1
RunTheBall Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: Holy Crap! I just looked at Schobel's career stats and I think you could make a case, he was a top 5 pass rusher in in the NFL from 2003-2006. He averaged 11 sacks a season in that 4 year span. I do not remember that at all. Schobel was the king of the garbage sack. He rarely made a sack when it meant anything. He only showed up against the Cheatriots and then he’d get 3 garbage time sacks because we were getting blown out. Decent talent, probably slightly above average DE, but he is the post boy for misleading stats. 1
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, Offside#76FredSmerlas said: I couldn't stand Bruce Smith off the field, on the field he was a beast. I was at Jim Kelly's bar and saw him standing on the stairscase and as I was walking by I said something along the lines like I enjoyed watching him and that I'm pulling for him and the Bills. I reached out my hand to give him a handshake and he just looked at me like "get lost" and never put his hand out. Then with all his holdouts, pretend injuries to not practice and always feeling like he needed more money it just reaked of a man with a monster ego with no humility. Then his DWI, passing out at a redlight, and leaving for Washington for one purpose only, to play enough games so he could have the sack record. He seemed to be all about himself. He just always seemed like a jerk. A Hall of Famer and amazing player but a complete ass. Just my take... Bruce Smith has always been my favorite player. Consistent with your experience, I was talking to a former player on that Bills' defense a few years ago, and he said Bruce was the biggest jerk. 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 57 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Nick O'Leary, primarily because of this affront to all sense and logic. I think your argument is with Giambra, not Jack Nicholson's nephew. 🤨 * 😁
Agent 91 Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Hopefully you still pulled for them on Sundays but overall...didn't like them. If they were cut or traded or left in FA.... you were happy. Not talking about disliking their play, just disliking them as a person by their personality/demeanor/attitude etc.... I never liked JP Losman. I thought he was a cocky little B word and then when he sucked, it made it worse. However, I will say that the last 2 interviews I've heard him do since his "retirement"....he seems like he's matured. Marshawn Lynch....just didn't like him. In his first couple of games in whatever year he was traded, I could see he just didn't care anymore. He gained weight and was just going through the motions. There was a Bills player that was there at the same time as Lynch that was on WGR or a podcast years ago....he said that Lynch didn't even stretch before games anymore. Donte Whitner I thought was an attention seeker baby who would have been a DIVA if he was good. Disliked him more after he left the Bills and was the biggest reason I was pulling against San Fran in the Super Bowl....didn't want him to get a ring. Losman was entitled. He wanted superstar treatment. Marshawn actually didn't want to play football anymore long before he hung it up. He didn't like the spotlight. Actually told me on a few occasions. Hes very down to earth not PC at all and I really liked interacting with him. I would also say and I will be vilified for this... but a lot of the supeebowl era guys are not the most pleasant folks. They respond very positive to people who treat them like heros or saviors. Bruce was quiet but decent in older years. Thurman and Andre are probably my least favorite of that grouping. I know this is way off topic but I never met a nicer Bill than Lawyer Milloy 1
Blokestradamus Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: I think your argument is with Giambra, not Jack Nicholson's nephew. 🤨 * 😁 Got to give Tommy some real credit. That was 6 years ago and it still lives rent-free in my head. 1
Teddy KGB Posted April 9, 2021 Posted April 9, 2021 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: OK so can we put Ryan L Bilz down in the "McDermott would love to have Stevie Johnson on his team" category? His apologists don't seem to have much courage to match their conviction on this topic. Lmao. Stevie cut you deeper than Lesean did ? Guy was solid. No reason to meltdown. 1
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